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Originally Posted by GAZMO
(Post 10526941)
My take outs from the article are as follows;
EI-BUD |
The Aldergrove fan club give it a cautious welcome
but still won't condemn aircraft noise on flights going into their beloved airport over Belfast at night and early morning ! |
Surely there's room at City for some genuine European business flights. We've got AMS (albeit not at a great time), but there must be scope for MUC, FRA, MAD, BRU and so on. Maybe a C-series provides both the legs and efficiency to make those routes work.
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There is a strange irony in getting a seat cap lifted while numbers are at best static and in some cases decreasing on routes. A Carlisle route here and there isn't going to cause any issues anyway! If by getting this cap lifted, management have painted themselves into a corner regarding noise and extensions then I find it difficult to see what has been achieved? :confused:
As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.:hmm: |
Originally Posted by escaped.atco
(Post 10527442)
There is a strange irony in getting a seat cap lifted while numbers are at best static and in some cases decreasing on routes. A Carlisle route here and there isn't going to cause any issues anyway! If by getting this cap lifted, management have painted themselves into a corner regarding noise and extensions then I find it difficult to see what has been achieved? :confused:
As Startled rightly points out, the airspace collapses once the airport is closed. In effect this means that from 2200 right through the night until 0630, every noisy cargo flight, passenger flight etc can descend as low as they want over any residential area they want on their way into Aldergrove. For example it is quite feasible and common for jet flights to be passing over BT9 at 2000ft all night long, yet if it was to happen during the day then there would be lots of complaints and subsequent outrage! Its a funny old world.:hmm: |
Originally Posted by 2Para
(Post 10527659)
maybe because they are quiet nobody hears them at night, all i/b flights to bfs will be throttled back to minimums and there would be very little noise indeed.
When they put the flaps down you certainly hear them . Down here in BT 9 on a quiet night or morning when they take off on 07 they are just a loud as something coming out of the city |
So all these night time arrivals are throttled back to minimum and they are practically silent you say? This is obviously a procedure that I was never aware of! Quick mathematical calculation then for the airborne experts. A320, descending through 3000ft with idle power setting over BT9 after coming up P620 from Dublin direction for downwind leg runway 25 at Aldergrove. Are you telling me it can continue in noise stealth mode with no adjustments required all the way to the threshold? Now that's impressive!:8
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There are noise procedures in place for night arrivals (and departures) in BFS. It isn’t difficult for a modern jet to arrive using minimum thrust if you let the crew get on with it. That entails letting them control the speed and minimising the use of speed brakes. |
Originally Posted by Husky One
(Post 10527833)
There are noise procedures in place for night arrivals (and departures) in BFS. It isn’t difficult for a modern jet to arrive using minimum thrust if you let the crew get on with it. That entails letting them control the speed and minimising the use of speed brakes. |
Can’t speak for those in BT9 but in BT6 the late night arrivals to BFS are not silent. As already mentioned, I’ll second the opinion that 07 departures from BFS can generate a fair amount of noise over the City too. No point in complaining though. We want to fly, that creates noise. |
Jets inbound to BFS are never over the city below 3000’. They are only cleared below that north of the City. They are also many times quieter than they were 20 years ago..in the days when nobody seemed bothered by them. There were also more of them flying around at night back then. I understand the BHD concerns but the BFS noise is clutching at straws. As EGAC said - we like to fly. Planes make noise. |
Originally Posted by Husky One
(Post 10528284)
Jets inbound to BFS are never over the city below 3000’....... |
No way would a BFS bound aircraft be permitted below 3000 feet over Belfast. There is a ring of hills to the north and west minimum height 1000 feet to around 1600 feet that approaching aircraft have to be 1000s of feet above. They can only begin final descent once they have passed these hills. They tend to be around 3000-4000 feet approaching the Knockagh before the left turn.
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OK. I'm getting bored of this now. :ugh:
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public...Itemid=73.html Think I posted wrong link. the chart you want is the Minimum Altitude Chart, AD 2-EGAA-5-1 |
Me too. Probably just as well you escaped. During the day you are never dropped below 4000 until clear of the City’s airspace. At night you are dropped to 3000 but no less until being vectored onto the localiser. The base of the airspace on the chart does not imply the procedures employed. If the CAA had their way the whole of NI would be a class D control zone from the ground up. That doesn’t mean jets would be using it. Ask a locally based jet crew if you’re not convinced. |
Escaping is fantastic, I can thoroughly recommend it. Good for the mind and soul!
Husky seems adamant that EGAA arrivals steadfastly remain above 4000 until far away from the city centre and never go below 3000 at night. All those conversations I have had over the years coordinating descent to lower levels were obviously a figment of my imagination then.:confused: As far as the Class D airspace issue, worth bearing in mind the majority of Northern Ireland airspace is uncontrolled and is likely to stay that way. The Class D already there is certainly piecemeal but it largely works. |
If you cant bear civil aircraft coasting in to land i suggest moving to somewhere quieter, it must be deafening when you let a fart out if the noise bothers you!
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I’ll tell the Easyjet guys they are allowed down to 2000ft over BFS at night then. Then we’ll see what noise is really about :rolleyes: or better still Jet2 with the ‘classic’ |
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