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Norwich-2
Good evening,
Does anyone know how long the Loganair Dorniers are going to be based in Norwich? Are there any replacements planned (eg SAAB2000's) if they go or will the base be closed? Thank you. |
With them starting Jersey next summer, plus extra service to EDI, I'd imagine they wont be leaving NWI any time soon but would likely replace perhaps more like for like in terms of size with the Saab 340
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Thanks Nick. Yes I agree the 2000 is probably too big for the current loads.
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no problem, they are certainly looking busy next summer from NWI with the 4x Jersey and Saturday Edinburgh added, but Yeh something between 30-34 seats seems most sensible
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NWI-EDI
Nick,
Interesting spot but it may be that given some of the NWI-EDI block-times have increased it switches to a Saab 340 instead of Dornier. That would allow the EDI gap to service a KOI / LSI / SYY rotation before returning to NWI, also allowing EDI tail swap. Not sure there is 4 x rotations NWI-EDI, just some variable schedules to align more to demand it would appear. Sensible scheduling. |
The new Masterplan for the airport has been published, and comments are invited until 17 August 2017 via this page.
There are no major surprises, other than the anticipated improvements to taxiways, a larger apron with more stands, and using the NDR to open land for "a 100-acre business park for aviation and non-aviation companies", i.e. another business park. The EDP continues to get excited about possible new routes to Dublin and Paris. |
I'm curious where this pathetic ADF "Airport Development Fund" actually goes.
In the past decade, the only development that has occurred is that NWI now serves less destinations than before. Not sure why anyone is excited about NWI-DUB or NWI-CDG.. these have been tried and axed already. Maybe if they decided to stop extorting £10 from every departing passenger, they'd have a chance at attracting (or maintaining) more service. |
Nice to see the return of thomas cook next summer operating weekly flights to dalaman.
Nwi-dlm 17:05-23:00 Dlm-nwi 13:45-15:50 |
Loganair are adding 2 new seasonal routes to Inverness and Isle of Man for summer 2018. Isle of Man flights operating twice weekly (fri+sun)for 3 weeks during TT races and Inverness flight operating twice weekly (mon+fri) between June 29 and September 3. Also a Saturday flight to Jersey being added so now a total of 6 weekly flights to Jersey for summer 18.
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Excellent news Tommy, I'm sure they will be well supported.
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It will be interesting to see what the load factors are. Eastern are facing a major challenge as the oil industry declines.
These are little more than short term flights to places with limited demand. |
30 yr plan
Umm intreasting
but when will it happen who knows Over priced food in the terminal £10 tax Out dates terminal facilitates as well and how will the runway be extended or when a lot of work there and not sure what can be done to make this a better airport would be nice to have more airlines serve this airport time will tell |
Yes but apart from that you are really upbeat!
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Norwich is one of the worst airports for customer service in Europe. It only scores 3/10 on Skytrax which is lower than Kabul in Afghanistan.
Lagos in Nigeria also scores 3/10. It appears their rating and customer comments mean nothing to the management. Blackpool also tried a £10 'development' fee which resulted in Ryanair pulling out and the airport now has no scheduled traffic. Newquay has ditched theirs leaving just Teeside at £6.00 and Norwich extorting a tenner. Talking of Teeside it appears the average daily passenger traffic from Norwich is five which raises the question is it worth it? |
Talking of Teeside |
I mentioned Teeside because both airports are grim and both are the only ones charging so called development fees.
However you measure it the average daily load from Norwich to Teeside is still five passengers. That will not cover the landing fee and handling. Norwich is stuck with only having an ILS on runway 27. The 09 approach has an NDB with a decision height of 500ft. The result is anytime they have an easterly wind with fog the airport cannot be used. They can't even be bothered to paint the steel frame supporting the engrance canopy where the rust stains are showing through. http://www.edp24.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1..._630/image.jpg So much for the airport development fee. |
Norwich is in good company then because a random glance through Skytrax shows these scores for some other UK airports:
2/10 East Midlands, Leeds-Bradford, Stansted 3/10 Aberdeen, Belfast Int, Birmingham, Bristol, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Liverpool, Manchester |
Just been nosey and noticed the Norwich thread thought would throw in my pennies worth of thought...
Usually airports where passengers have to part with cash for services that are free elsewhere, usually leaves a bad taste in their mouths. Exactly the same at Luton where drop off fees are now applied, and gets a 1-2 star rating in SkyTrax year upon year, with the charge being the main moaning point. It is interesting how Regional and City Airport's the operators on Norwich are happy to charge the Developement fee there, but not at any of their other portfolio of airports, which still see regular services, like Derry, Exeter and Bournemouth. Especially when airports like Bournemouth and Exeter have similar passenger numbers. Norwich is quite a maintenance heavy airport, and would imagine there is a fair amount of revenue from that. I like how the Development fee is not chargeable for Business Class or the upper tier frequent flyer members. A frequent flyer could buy the cheapest ticket, but still get the fee waived! Has there been much in the way of improvements to the airport in recent years with this £10 fee being introduced, for example improved facilities? |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9994989)
However you measure it the average daily load from Norwich to Teeside is still five passengers. That will not cover the landing fee and handling.
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I was refering to those from Norwich dropped at Teeside.
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That's not Norwich's problem, is it? Besides which, people join the aircraft between DTVA and Aberdeen.
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Originally Posted by gilesdavies
(Post 9995088)
Just been nosey and noticed the Norwich thread thought would throw in my pennies worth of thought...
Usually airports where passengers have to part with cash for services that are free elsewhere, usually leaves a bad taste in their mouths. Exactly the same at Luton where drop off fees are now applied, and gets a 1-2 star rating in SkyTrax year upon year, with the charge being the main moaning point. It is interesting how Regional and City Airport's the operators on Norwich are happy to charge the Developement fee there, but not at any of their other portfolio of airports, which still see regular services, like Derry, Exeter and Bournemouth. Especially when airports like Bournemouth and Exeter have similar passenger numbers. Norwich is quite a maintenance heavy airport, and would imagine there is a fair amount of revenue from that. I like how the Development fee is not chargeable for Business Class or the upper tier frequent flyer members. A frequent flyer could buy the cheapest ticket, but still get the fee waived! Has there been much in the way of improvements to the airport in recent years with this £10 fee being introduced, for example improved facilities? Take a look at the rust on the supports over the entrance canopy in my previous picture. The security staff are so bored they treat every passenger with the full Stasi inspection. As a pilot I used it years ago when it was council owned and a pleasure to visit. Flying in there in a private helicopter is a waste of time not to mention the hassle.Easier to use nearby Sprowston Manor hotel where you get a VIP service. The same applies to private fixed wing use so a GA airport best avoided. I think the owners see the value in maintenance traffic, although with short term contracts this can be fickle, and the opportunity to exploit the area near the new ring road for a 100 acre business park. The passenger numbers are never going to increase much beyond where they are and indeed a substantial amount of the movements are North Sea helicopters. It is nigh on impossible to increase the runway length and a low cost high volume operator such as Ryanair is never going to arrive to boost the traffic. In short it is a local airport mostly supported by offshore oil workers who can afford to pay the extortionate KLM fares to AMS. |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9995167)
In short it is a local airport mostly supported by offshore oil workers who can afford to pay the extortionate KLM fares to AMS.
In 5 years of using the airport, I've found NWI-AMS to the USA, Asia and Russia is usually never more than £50-150 more expensive than flying from LHR. I gladly pay that to avoid the A11 and M25, or Greater Anglia and the tube. Even with an improved runway, Norwich doesn't have the population to support FR or U2. If you want low fares, then drive to Stansted, pay to park and walk a mile and a half through the shops to catch your flight. Enough folk are patronising KLM to keep the operation viable. |
Very well put
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I suspect you may be once a year holiday makers.
The Eastern Daily Press has a story today promoting a few charter flights next year. The comments below are reaction and are typical of comments every time the airport appears in the paper. This is all very well for Norwich Airport but what about the long suffering clients who regularly use the scheduled flights to Aberdeen, Manchester, Edinburgh that are delayed or cancelled regularly. Norwich Airport should really sort the carriers out first to make them more reliable. Right now these flights are unreliable so I'm forced to send my employees to other airports just to guarantee they make it to their destinations> And why is the electronics for taking off/landing in fog not there. Norwich International? I don't think so!! Many years ago I would use Norwich all the time. Then a combination of inflated parking charges and the cost of flights made it a no brainer to fly from Stanstead. Also, the drive to Stanstead is consistently 75 minutes whereas Norwich varies so much depending on the traffic and roadworks. Sometimes the drive to Norwich has been 45 minutes but it has also taken as long as 2 1/4 hours. That day I nearly missed my flight and had to take my own bags to the plane. These days people vote with their feet and rarely go back. I don't think this is much use to someone who wants just a flight. They look like 'package holiday' flights to me , like Thompson used to be. I like to deal directly with any hotel I stay at & then book my flights to suit. I use London City Airport - 2 x Adults return to Palma de Mallorca with BA £200 using Tier points from a BA Amex card. Monarch wanted £1600 for the same journey from Norwich - obviously not interested in selling flights only. These look the same. |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9995210)
I suspect you may be once a year holiday makers.
But for business, in the last 18 months, between us we've clocked up 30+ flights in Y to the USA, Canada, Russia, Czech Rep., Singapore, China, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Malaysia. All with KLM from NWI. (That's why we only take one holiday a year :ok: ) |
Well as you no doubt have gathered I live in SE Asia and in the last week have shuttled between Hong Kong,Macau,Bangkok and KL on Air Asia and Jetstar.
The most expensive flight was 2 hours 50 minutes Macau to Don Muang at £60 in a brand new Airbus. Compare that to the rip off fees from Norwich to AMS which is just 50 minutes or indeed Aberdeen. Flying in this part of the world is a joy with clean modern airports.Even the little Savannakhet terminal in Laos is now better than Norwich. I have not been in to EGSH for many years but follow the news enough to see nothing has changed. Memories of delays at Schipol and if there was North Sea fog no chance of arriving back in Norfolk. It is what it is. A shed with a cafe and a few local services. It was at its best back in the early 90's when run by the council. A lick of paint and some staff training would not go amiss. As for KLM and their old staff and fleet to match...give me Eva,China Airlines, Singapore or Thai any day. |
As for KLM and their old staff and fleet to match |
Well least this is the most active the Norwich thread has been in a while.
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ara...... & NickBarnes..
It does not make your defence of "facilities & service" at NWI the more credible I`m afraid with stereotype comments regarding STN either. |
Is this thread the first time Norwich has ever been compared to Macau? :ok:
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Originally Posted by southside bobby
(Post 9995346)
ara...... & NickBarnes..
It does not make your defence of "facilities & service" at NWI the more credible I`m afraid with stereotype comments regarding STN either. |
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 9995371)
Is this thread the first time Norwich has ever been compared to Macau? :ok:
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Have flown out of both NWI and STN once each in the last 12 months. Give me Norwich and I'll pay the extra £10 any day. Compact, avoids the horrendous experience of car park to airport plus check-in and security at STN, and did the job just fine. I'd give Stansted a wide berth for years to come. Regional airports have plenty of life left in them yet, I'd say.
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Perhaps some you fans of Norwich can explain why a round trip to AMS costs £300.
It is only an hour away but twice the price of Norwich to Aberdeen. |
Jay Sata
You have certainly livened up what is usually a very quite Norwich forum with your consistent rants, it's quite irrelevant really and what is your fascination with Norwich I don't see you posting elsewhere! |
There is a big difference between rants and telling the truth.
If you read my previous posts you will see I used it a lot decades ago as both a passenger and pilot. Over the years I have kept a house in Norfolk,in locations such as Diss and Swaffham. I travel a lot and gave up using Norwich many years ago. The drive to Heathrow is a more pleasant experience. The airport is run down with poor facilities and surly staff.Add to that the risk it being fogged out due to no ILS on runway 09 and hours hanging around in Schipol meant like many I voted with my feet. Despite being on another continent I read the local paper everyday which feature negative comments whenever a NWI story appears. I see you live in Southampton which is a long way from Norwich. |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9995728)
Perhaps some you fans of Norwich can explain why a round trip to AMS costs £300.
It is only an hour away but twice the price of Norwich to Aberdeen. Total priceGBP118.38 AdultFare per passenger59.00Taxes per passenger59.38Price118.38 |
Indonesia is even further!
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Originally Posted by Harry Wayfarers
(Post 9995756)
And in case somebody hasn't told you ... Flights over seas, as opposed to over land, are invariably more expensive for a very logical reason. Ryanair do not appear to have a problem with low fares and flying 'over seas'. Take a look at Skytrax reviews or indeed the airports Facebook review section. |
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