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Gonzo 22nd Mar 2019 22:10

Iím sure thereís an echo in here.....!

Navpi 23rd Mar 2019 13:28

Do we know at what point we are with RW3 ?

It all seems to have gone quiet.

118.70 23rd Mar 2019 15:13

Would you say that the latest results support Action 2.2 in the newly published Noise Action Plan 2019-2023 (adopted and approved by Michael Gove Feb 2019) ?:

https://www.heathrow.com/file_source..._2019-2023.pdf
2.2 FQG improvement

We will work with airlines to improve the overall FQG scores, working towards increasing the green scores.

Performance Indicator :Number of green scores
Target : More green score dots than 2018 baseline

AVGEN does get an honourable mention in the Consultation Response section of the Supporting Annexes document :

https://www.heathrow.com/file_source...ng_Annexes.pdf

Theme or Issue :
"We are aware of criticism by aviation
consultants AvGen of how these are reported
and consider that the points they raise about
the discrepancies between actual performance
of certain airlines and their ratings should be
investigated further by Heathrow.
FQG programme criticism by AvGen should
be explained."

Heathrow Response :

"This was discussed and recorded in the minutes at
the Heathrow Community Noise Forum in September
2017. https://www.heathrow.com/file_source/
HeathrowNoise/Static/HCNF_meeting_notes_20_
Sept_2017.pdf Also see the outcomes mentioned in
Annex 13, Action 2.1."

DaveReidUK 23rd Mar 2019 18:46


Originally Posted by Navpi (Post 10427652)
Do we know at what point we are with RW3 ?

It all seems to have gone quiet.

https://www.judiciary.uk/publication...t-transcripts/

Navpi 24th Mar 2019 10:29

One wonders with a change of cabinet if matters Heathrow may change.

Gove aka Mr Bean, has just come from environment minister so will surely be tackled on the effect Heathrow expansion will have on Londoners. I'm not a tree hugger but it's beyond bizarre that the mayor is introducing a mega low emissions tax on the ground but cropspraying those chirpy cockneys from the air is not part of the equation ?

...and what of Grayling ? Toast !

DaveReidUK 24th Mar 2019 15:55


Originally Posted by 118.70 (Post 10427719)
Would you say that the latest results support Action 2.2 in the newly published Noise Action Plan 2019-2023 (adopted and approved by Michael Gove Feb 2019) ?:

https://www.heathrow.com/file_source..._2019-2023.pdf
2.2 FQG improvement

We will work with airlines to improve the overall FQG scores, working towards increasing the green scores.

Performance Indicator: Number of green scores
Target: More green score dots than 2018 baseline

It's interesting that those Noise Action Plan targets are expressed purely in terms of "green dots", i.e. the number of results that fall into the Green band of the Red/Amber/Green "RAG" classification.

That sounds like a tacit acknowledgement by Heathrow that those dodgy Fly Quiet points and league tables aren't actually any use for gauging whether airlines are improving their environmental performance.

Not that the RAG classifications are much better - while some of the metrics award a Green dot based on actual performance thresholds (CDAs and Track-keeping, for example), others (e.g. NOx and Quota Count) simply give all but the worst 25% of airlines a Green classification without requiring them to achieve any specific threshold.

Nor do the Noise Action Plan targets take any account of the relative importance attached to the different performance metrics - for example Track-keeping carries three times as much FQ&G weight as NOx emissions, but Green classifications for either count equally towards the NAP target.

Skipness One Foxtrot 24th Mar 2019 18:47


but cropspraying those chirpy cockneys from the air is not part of the equation ?
Fabulous point Navpi, perhaps Manchester can lead the way in green matters and just close MAN entirely, I think you'll agree that's what's best for those Northerners, given their relatively limited life expectancy against those, what was it you actually said, "chirpy cockneys"?
You should really visit Cockney-land one day with your own mince pies, you'd be amazed.

I'll leave it in your more than capable hands......

Navpi 26th Mar 2019 19:35

The premise of my comment was nothing to do with Manchester but the absurdity of penalising drivers on the ground with the new eye-watering emission charges whilst making no comment about the particles raining down from the air.

...But of course you knew that didn't you:ok:

mufc4evr 26th Mar 2019 21:00

Hi

What construction work are they now doing at Terminal 2? Looks like they are digging deep

Thanks

SamYeager 27th Mar 2019 16:07


Originally Posted by Navpi (Post 10430644)
The premise of my comment was nothing to do with Manchester but the absurdity of penalising drivers on the ground with the new eye-watering emission charges whilst making no comment about the particles raining down from the air.

Perhaps because passenger cars generated just under 70% of the greenhouse gases emitted in the transport category? Table 3 of the Data Tables from the Government 2017 Greenhouse Emissions Statistics refers.

Navpi 27th Mar 2019 19:28

Hmmmm.... May going?
The end is nigh for Failing Grayling....and what now for Heathrow?

euromanxdude 28th Mar 2019 12:51

LHR - IOM resurrected 21st April 1xdaily Dh8 Q400

Cazza_fly 28th Mar 2019 12:57

Flybe Connect Heathrow with Isle of Man
 
A new daily Flybe service connecting Heathrow with Isle of Man will commence as early as 21st April! The route will be operated by Flybe Dash8-Q400 aircraft and is on sale now.

https://www.flybe.com/cheap-flights/isle-of-man

Quite a short lead time for bookings but i wonder if its something they've been working on for a while. I presume this will be another PSO type route?

Flybe are certainly getting quite an operation at LHR and definitely giving travellers more choice and connection opportunities with other airlines.

VickersVicount 28th Mar 2019 19:02

presume these are just slot sitters? As i doubt thst route will give return on a high value slot

DaveReidUK 3rd Apr 2019 12:50

Heathrow owns up to Fly Quiet & Green errors
 
Owns up, that's to say, only in the sense that following my previous post it has made a series of unannounced, undocumented changes to the Q4 2018 "league table" (presumably in the hope that nobody will notice!), but with no explicit acknowledgement that anything has actually changed.


This time around, even a cursory glance at the results is sufficient to illustrate how absurd they are - instead of giving the airlines an average score of around 750 out of 1000, as with previous quarters' results (already grossly inflated), Heathrow has hiked the average score by over 8% to 813 points.
Heathrow has now retrospectively adjusted the average points scored by airlines in Q4 2018 from 813 to 727, and has likewise amended all the individual airline scores, without any acknowledgement whatsoever that anything has been changed. The newly-adjusted scores are still, of course, around 40% higher than they ought to be if the stated rules of the scheme were being followed.


Not content with inflating the scores even more than usual, Heathrow has also inexplicably excluded 5 of its 50 busiest airlines from the results.

We will never know how China Southern, El Al, Korean Air, Kuwait Airways or Pakistan International Airlines are judged to have performed, because Egyptair short/longhaul, Icelandair (ditto) and MEA longhaul (all with fewer flights than any of the above) have been substituted instead. In fact El Al and China Southern had over three times as many flights as MEA longhaul during Q4.
China Southern, El Al, Kuwait and PIA have now miraculously appeared in the results, although oddly Royal Air Maroc has also been added, despite having fewer flights than Korean Air (which is still absent).


The "league table" ranking, in descending order of points awarded by Heathrow, includes the bizarre sequence: 9th, 10th, 13th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, 27th, 20th, 21st, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 24th, 27th, 28th.
Happily, Heathrow has now discovered how to count from 1 to 50 without jumping forwards and backwards randomly.


For the second successive quarter, 180 flights by Finnair's A330 and A350 fleets (out of an airline total of 905) appear not to have been taken into account in calculating the results, with only its narrow-body A320 family flights having been counted.
All of Finnair's widebody flights now appear to have been considered in the revised results.

As I've noted in previous posts, you couldn't make this up, but at least we now know who has. :O

Sharklet_321 9th Apr 2019 18:18

Does LHR no longer do runway switches at 3pm? I observed planes taking off from 09R this morning and still the planes are taking off from 09R tonight

Plus - How many slots are there destined for Flybe??? It seems every time I check the news they are landing more slots. Can LHR really accommodate so many Q400 (78 seat!) slots without compromising on efficiency?

cuthere 9th Apr 2019 18:23

They donít alternate when on easterlies; or at least they didnít when I worked there some years ago.

Trinity 09L 9th Apr 2019 20:27

They do not alternate on easterlies, and have not since the mid 50ís when jets first arrived, its the Cranford agreement, withdrawn in 2010.
HAL submitted plans to Hillingdon council who refused, HAL appealed, they were granted. HAL reneged on its own application and deferred to R3 completion saving themselves £millions. Therefore 18hrs continuous noise on the runways, and you trust them to build a new runway taking account of public interest?

DaveReidUK 10th Apr 2019 06:54


Originally Posted by Sharklet_321 (Post 10443566)
Does LHR no longer do runway switches at 3pm? I observed planes taking off from 09R this morning and still the planes are taking off from 09R tonight

LHR Runway Alternation

Sharklet_321 10th Apr 2019 07:39

Thanks all!


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