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Originally Posted by Trinity 09L
(Post 10045232)
They are showing runway use, with the centre runway on mixed ops only to avoid conflict.
The centre runway would be the only one that can't operate in mixed-mode, for safety reasons (because of the missed approach procedure). The plan is that, at any given time, one of the two outer runways would be used in mixed-mode, with the other two used in segregated mode - one handling arrivals and the other departures. |
Apologies, they are not using mixed mode on centre runway. However on their four mode plan it shows that 75% of landings on the same runway, twice on parallel runways, likewise for departures. This appears on page 32 of HAL Our approach to Noise document.
Originally Posted by Trinity 09L
(Post 10045204)
HAL have told me they’re paying for the M25 diversion,tunnel & runway on top. As they do not know the length of R3 anything can happen :ugh:
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Yes, that's correct. Communities under the 09R/27L approaches would see their respite drop from 50% to 25%. The latter figure would also apply to those under the R3 approach.
The often-quoted figure of "33% respite" is a fairly meaningless average of the 50% respite that those under the 09L/27R approach would experience (as at present) and the 25% for the two outer runways. |
One of the main environmental issues with LHR is the pollution caused by LGVs queuing at the cargo terminal. I've said before - R3 will not be built. Not least of all, it's now waaay too late. The traffic has moved elsewhere and the traffic that would move in would not be enough. BUT if we could clear the stacks? That would be a huge environmental benefit. Heathrow Airport's control of building costs 'abysmal' - BBC News Heathrow Airport has a "abysmal" record of controlling building costs said the boss of British Airways-owner IAG. Willie Walsh told the BBC that other companies should be allowed to design and build any new terminals at Heathrow. Heathrow said it did not believe such a model was appropriate. The government is due to publish final proposals for a third runway at Heathrow in the next few months. MPs will then vote on those plans. Mr Walsh called for an end to Heathrow airport's "monopoly" on its terminals. "Heathrow Airport Limited run an airport - they're not the best at designing or building the facilities," he said. "We believe that should be left to others who are much better, and who would have a greater focus on cost control." Mr Walsh does not think that existing terminals should be sold off, but rather that competitors should be allowed to submit proposals for developing, designing and building new terminal facilities. "It's not rocket science, there are plenty of people who have been involved in this type of construction in other areas who would be interested," he said. "We know because we've been approached by many of them, who believe that they could do this in a much more efficient way than Heathrow." Mr Walsh's call is the latest salvo in his ongoing war of words with Heathrow, which is ultimately owned by Spanish firm Ferrovial. IAG, which owns Iberia and Aer Lingus as well as BA, controls just over half the landing slots at Heathrow - Europe's busiest airport. Mr Walsh long been a vocal critic of the fees imposed on airlines by Heathrow, which stand at about £22 per passenger. IAG said the proposed expansion of the airport could allow independent companies to build and operate commercial facilities at the airport, including terminals. "Heathrow's had it too good for too long and the government must confirm the Civil Aviation Authority's powers to introduce this type of competition," Mr Walsh said. A spokesperson said Heathrow wanted to ensure competition and choice between airlines at the airport: "Expansion will open up opportunities for IAG, easyJet, flybe, Virgin and dozens of international airlines with whom we are working closely to deliver expansion at close to current charges." Heathrow chief executive John Holland-Kaye is due to give evidence to MPs on the Transport Select Committee on Monday afternoon. The third runway was due to cost almost £17bn, but Heathrow argued that it could complete the project for £14bn. Airlines fear that the airport will increase landing charges to help pay for the third runway. IAG has threatened to call for a price cap on landing charges if they do not fall after the new runway is finished. "With more passengers and the introduction of internal competition, the airport's charges should go down," Mr Walsh said. "If they remain at current levels we, along with other airlines, support a price cap to ensure they cannot rise and have written to the Transport Select Committee to highlight this." Perhaps most outrageous of all, Flybe, which according to LHR's methodology loses over 100 points each for both its CDA adherence and its track-keeping performance, nevertheless gets propelled into first place after being awarded 930 points out of a possible 1000! |
Originally Posted by Fairdealfrank
(Post 10047985)
Oh very good!! Excellent pun
BE is not using jet aircraft to/from LHR. Interestingly, despite using turboprops Flybe only rank 10th best for Noise Quota used per seat per movement, because of course the Q400 (Dash 8) only has 78 seats. |
As one who particularly notices their droning "Q"400s as they climb out over Berkshire/Bucks, let us not conflate quietness with turboprops. The Q400, with those big paddle-blade props, is anyway the noisiest of all current turboprops.
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For noise Quota Count purposes, the Q400 sits in between early (PW124) and later (PW127) ATR-72s. The Dash-8 is exempted on departure (< 84 EPNdB, so zero noise quota used) but not on arrival, whereas newer ATRs are exempted on both arrival and departure and older ones on neither.
If only Flybe operated shiny new ATRs, they would automatically be top of the rankings. :O |
Fairdealfrank
Yes you have, many many times, and you may be right, but you cannot have it both ways. If you don't want stacks, and by implication queues on the ground, you have to have another rwy, because there will never be a reduction in movements. Pity the environmentalists don't understand this.
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Here by London City the Flybe and Luxair Q400s are the most noticeable of the turboprops. From inside the house I notice their noise on departure where I don't notice any of the other turbos (we even have the old VLM F50s back) on the same track.
For all the reference is to engine types, most of their noise comes from the prop tips. I think that LHR should have used the idea of reducing stacks as an important point and would play many at their own game. |
In fairness no closure of 23/05 means the central area would still be a congested mess, no new T2. That was one call that was spot on IMHO.
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Originally Posted by WHBM
(Post 10048891)
The real PR error was just closing their onetime third runway 23 as not required, having made its use as awkward as possible in the years before.
If they had presented the whole thing as a runway "realignment" of 23 a further amount of opprobrium from the general press and public would have been neutralised. |
WHBM
The real PR error was just closing their onetime third runway 23 as not required, having made its use as awkward as possible in the years before. If they had presented the whole thing as a runway "realignment" of 23 a further amount of opprobrium from the general press and public would have been neutralised. I only landed once on 23 - in a Viscount from IOM! No departures. So that was the early 80s sometime. When did it close? |
Sunday 27th October 2002. Last movement was a landing that morning by a SAA 747.
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Would a crossing runway not reduce separation on the other runways and therefore hinder matters ?
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It's a complete red herring.
I'm waiting for some for some bright spark to suggest that Heathrow should have kept all six of its original runways open - just think how much capacity it would have with that many. :ugh: |
Bright Spark here who remembers the layout at Chicago O'Hare, up to about 15 years ago, with a 6-runway intersecting star pattern just like Heathrow once had, and the throughput they got from it was astounding (must be others here who recall it as well). And yes, they would have all six in use together. Dim recollection they got over 100 departures an hour. Like Heathrow, they eventually ran out of ground space as more the limiting factor, and have gone for substantial expansion.
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Comparisons between O'Hare and Heathrow are meaningless.
The presence/absence of any of LHR's cross runways has never had any impact on capacity. |
Ground incident Heathrow ? 14/2/2018
Some stands un-useable to to a ground incident this morning ? any info out there ?
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Despite claims to the contrary the incident at Heathrow is causing chaos. Friend on board a Zurich have been holding take off for 2 hours and can't now get back to stand because T5 is filling up with inbounds.
Seems to be an incident between two vehicles yet many news outlets are claiming that passengers are being evacuated? |
Serious vehicle accident airside.
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Two ground vehicles appear to have crashed, looks like northern end of T5C on Taxiway C. Police in attendance and debris scattered, hence taxiway and stands closed.
As ever, in the UK, we err MASSIVELY on the side of caution, so connections missed and delays aplenty. In other westeren European countries, it would be swept up and ops normal much faster. We love a man in uniform with a clipboard we do... https://news.sky.com/story/serious-a...field-11250025 |
Brilliant from Skipness.
Total non incident which has now gone viral with claims of mass evacuations etc. I'm incredulous that a minor incident is grounding planes, and delaying 000s of passengers. |
1 Person Killed, 1 other VSI.
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Originally Posted by Navpi
(Post 10052629)
Brilliant from Skipness.
Total non incident which has now gone viral with claims of mass evacuations etc. I'm incredulous that a minor incident is grounding planes, and delaying 000s of passengers. |
Is the death of someone a minor incident?
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As ever, in the UK, we err MASSIVELY on the side of caution, so connections missed and delays aplenty. In other westeren European countries, it would be swept up and ops normal much faster. We love a man in uniform with a clipboard we do... Doesn’t matter what you write. As long as it’s fast, ill-informed, judgemental and sarcastic! |
MV and Andrew well put ! It is a crime scene and somebody will not be going home today changing many peoples' lives forever !
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
(Post 10052589)
As ever, in the UK, we err MASSIVELY on the side of caution, so connections missed and delays aplenty. In other westeren European countries, it would be swept up and ops normal much faster. We love a man in uniform with a clipboard we do...
This probably happens here and, despite what you suggest, in most countries. On the roads I've been stationary in a jam here for over 3 hours, and for 5 hours in Germany. Sometimes maybe the police closed the road to land an air ambulance on the carriageway, but when the police accident investigation vehicle goes past after an hour you know two things - probably someone has died, and you will be there longer. If instead several people had been killed in an aircraft, would you still be saying get the bulldozers out? Do you have any professional connection with aviation? |
Totally unfair and inaccurate. The comments were made BEFORE the seriousness of the incident had been reported. My comments were aimed at what initiatially appeared to be a somewhat "hysterical press" reporting the evacuation of passengers!
This of course is extremely unfortunate and very sad. |
Totally unfair and inaccurate. The comments were made BEFORE the seriousness of the incident had been reported. Just a thought but maybe, just maybe, it would have been worth not posting anything at all until the seriousness of the accident had been reported. |
Pretty heartless comment above. Two things (nothing to do with clipboards and uniform, you have been listening to Jeremy Clarkson too muc!!)
1. A (tragic) fatal accident needs to be investigated 2. If that involves a delay to anyone, so be it. |
Armchair Idiots!
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OK apology time.
There was NO indication at the time of posting that the poor chap had died. I would not ever so flippant in event of a fatality, the reports were of a prang and two people being treated, there was no report of a critical casualty until much later in the day, let alone a fatality. At the time, I did not believe that any collision likely would have been fast enough on a ramp for someone to die and there was no indication of this, even several hours afterwards. Hence I was intending to poke fun at our ongoing tradition of London, the South East and Heathrow to grind to a halt at the first sign of anything out of the ordinary, nothing more. I am sorry if I have caused offence, it was most certainly not intended. |
Local BBC news states paramedics fought for 2 hours IN SITU to save the poor chaps life after he suffered a cardiac arrest.
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Unfortunately due to the nature of some of the posts on Pprune these days, and simply because of the arrogance, lack of respect coupled with the unprofessionalism typically demonstrated by someone here today,I rarely post anything anymore, despite having 35 years Airside operational experience.
I would like to pass on my sincere condolences to the family and friends and all the staff at LHR,at this awful time and wish the other injured party a speedy recovery. |
Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo
(Post 10052816)
OK apology time.
There was NO indication at the time of posting that the poor chap had died. I would not ever so flippant in event of a fatality, the reports were of a prang and two people being treated, there was no report of a critical casualty until much later in the day, let alone a fatality. At the time, I did not believe that any collision likely would have been fast enough on a ramp for someone to die and there was no indication of this, even several hours afterwards. Your previous post said that police were in attendance. This is not necessarily required for a minor collision with no injuries, even on public roads. |
Some of my closest 'moments' have been with ground ops vehicles. These guys are generally exceptional and they clearly need to have their wits about them. However, it can get scary when things go wrong.
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I know the person that passed away personally, he was engineer in my team. I just hope that the yellow patrol driver gets done for life and that teach them a lesson.
I am surprised this hasn´t happened before as this guys drive like maniacs, no respect for priorities in taxi ways whatsoever. Rest in peace John. |
Let's not continue to hang the guy.
S1E has apologised unreservedly. That should be the end of it |
Skip One E is a regular sensible poster. Let's drop it and pause for a moment for a colleague
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