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Trinity 09L 25th Jun 2018 14:53

The hubs will work by pre-assembling components off-site before transporting them in consolidated loads to Heathrow as and when required.

"By road" ?? that's M25 accepting more lorries whilst they move the motorway. "By air" but there is no capacity at LHR, "By train" no rail link, and they are diverting the River Colne as well

MANFOD 25th Jun 2018 17:11

The London Telegraph was graced yesterday and today with articles by Grayling.
Today's contained this gem:

"Business people should be able to fly from Belfast, or Aberdeen, or Newcastle or Newquay to their markets around the world, with no more than a simple change at Heathrow. Yet all too often they have to go to the Netherlands or Germany for those connections"

A little bit of homework showed the following current schedules as far as I can tell for the first 3 of those airports on weekdays:
Belfast has 4 x BA flights to LHR and 4 Aer Lingus
To Amsterdam, there is a single KLM flight and 2 x easyjet (no through ticketing as far as I know)
There appear to be no services to Frankfurt or Munich.

Aberdeen has 5 x BA flights to LHR and 3 x flybe.
To AMS, 4 X KLM flights, and no direct Frankfurt or Munich service.

Newcastle has 5 x flights to LHR
To AMS 3 X KLM flights and no direct Frankfurt or Munich service.

So, far more flights to Heathrow to choose from than Amsterdam and nothing to Germany (unless there is an odd flight to Dusseldorf which I didn't check).

Is Mr Grayling being economical with the facts or is he just ignorant of what services operate from regional airports?

Finally, and I hesitate to mention this, but some of those passengers that allegedly have to go via the Netherlands and Germany from Belfast and Aberdeen may actually choose to fly via Manchester or Birmingham to a range of destinations, some of them long haul. However, these 2 airports don't seem to be recognised by our wonderful Secretary of State for Transport.

Trinity 09L 25th Jun 2018 17:21

John Holland-Kaye quotes for the Daily Mail (ie an advert)
"We can start to open up China, flying to places I can barely pronounce but which are as big as London. We could be the connecting point between these places and North America and that's an amazing place to be"
Is he not aware that Chinese airlines fly direct from New York to China and return, others New York to the M3 countries, why would Americans add an Atlantic trip to the UK, get off the aircraft and get on another to China

Suzeman 25th Jun 2018 20:13

That nice Mr Grayling will only know the facts that his civil servants set before him. And I can tell you from previous experiences years ago that the view is that the real England finishes at Watford, there is then somewhere known as the provinces, an industrial wasteland where people wear flat hats, speak with a funny accent and stuff ferrets down their trousers. Then comes the foreign lands of Wales and Scotland which can look after themselves - if we let them have a little money....

Perhaps in true Sir Humphrey style they are trying to get him to make an a*se of himself so they can get a new master - and if that is the case, they are doing spectacularly well :ok: Although there is another school of thought that says Grayling is quite capable of making an a*se of himself on his own.

It would also seem that JH-K has some script writers who don't know the score.

But most readers won't know any better and will lap it up. That's what it is all about nowadays.

Navpi 25th Jun 2018 21:41

A late entry by Suzeman but a very very welcome one.

Trinity 09L 25th Jun 2018 22:23

R3 approved by those who have no knowledge

MANFOD 25th Jun 2018 22:32

At least MPs as far apart politically as Greening and McDonnell spoke with real passion against R3.
Let the legal battles commence when more detailed plans are submitted.

compton3bravo 26th Jun 2018 09:04

Could not agree more Suzeman. Grayling total waste of rations, could not run a bath , but unfortunately a big mate of Maybot (MP for Maidenhead whose council oppose R3).

Navpi 26th Jun 2018 11:40

The vote was completely and utterly flawed .

I am tempted to say that even if it had been thrown out it was still up for scrutiny. Most Mps didn't have a clue what they were actually talking about on the approval side.

Even if you disagree at least messrs Ruth Cadbury and Justine Greening could argue with a degree of forensic analysis.

One MORON from NI suggested he "welcomed the possibility of the logistics depot being built in Stabane". Good luck transporting 3m tonnes of gravel from NORTHERN IRELAND to Staines.

It shows what a bunch of idiots we have making decisions on our behalf.

Meanwhile

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/26/grayling-to-face-legal-action-over-heathrow-expansion-plan?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=h ttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2018%2Fjun% 2F26%2Fgrayling-to-face-legal-action-over-heathrow-expansion-plan

Trash 'n' Navs 26th Jun 2018 16:53


Originally Posted by Navpi (Post 10182038)
Justine Greening could argue with a degree of forensic analysis.

Yes, "forensic" is the word that came to mind....

As reported on the BBC Live stream:
"Conservative Justine Greening says this is a vote which will affect "all our communities in one way or another". She says that this is a situation of broken promises, broken politics and broken economics, she adds that Heathrow does not stick to current respite rules on early morning flights. There is no formal safety review even though the crash risk will increase by 60% in a densely populated area, she adds. She adds that consultations are "never, I repeat, never, listened to". She says that the government has managed to pick the riskiest project, the one that requires the most amount of money from taxpayers and the one that has the worst safety implications".

Skipness One Foxtrot 26th Jun 2018 17:48


she adds that Heathrow does not stick to current respite rules on early morning flights.
There are 12 arrivals scheduled between 0450 and 0600. If you're not in that list of 12 and you have favourable winds, you are in the hold until a post-0600 landing slot opens up. Has this changed?

DaveReidUK 26th Jun 2018 18:02


Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot (Post 10182271)
There are 12 arrivals scheduled between 0450 and 0600. If you're not in that list of 12 and you have favourable winds, you are in the hold until a post-0600 landing slot opens up. Has this changed?

It's not unknown for a flight with an STA post-0600 to land before that time, probably a couple per day on average.

Trinity 09L 26th Jun 2018 18:18


Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot (Post 10182271)
There are 12 arrivals scheduled between 0450 and 0600. If you're not in that list of 12 and you have favourable winds, you are in the hold until a post-0600 landing slot opens up. Has this changed?

The last aircraft on 09L last night landed at 23.50, the next landed at 04.40 a respite of 4hrs 50min, thereafter 8 aircraft on 09L one on 09R until 0600.
They then landed parallel pairs using TEAM from 0603 until 09R departures.
09L will be in use continously today and without alteration until the last flight lands tonight, ie 19hrs, which does not occur on westerlies.
Did MP's know about the broken promise of HAL re the Cranford agreement?

DaveReidUK 26th Jun 2018 19:56


Originally Posted by Trinity 09L (Post 10182289)
Did MP's know about the broken promise of HAL re the Cranford agreement?

Presumably another of those promises that, we're told, were made by a previous management and shouldn't have been. :O

SWBKCB 26th Jun 2018 20:01


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10182326)
Presumably another of those promises that, we're told, were made by a previous management and shouldn't have been. :O

Wonder why people are skeptical about the ring-fencing of slots for regional access.... :suspect:

Navpi 26th Jun 2018 21:21

"Ha ha so long suckers"

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2018/jun/26/ferrovial-to-move-international-hq-out-of-uk-because-of-brexit-heathrow-netherlands?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&CMP=twt_b-gdnnews&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impre ssion=true

Skipness One Foxtrot 26th Jun 2018 23:53

The Cranford Agreement was removed by Labour’s Geoff Hoon years ago. 09L deps only happen in the overnight period on the standard runway rotation published on the website, winds permitting. Daily 09L deps on a BAU basis are sub-par against target dep rate due to the lack of space abeam the 500s at the moment and more runway holds required, further developments were put on hold awaiting the decision on R3.





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