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-   -   Prestwick-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599770-prestwick-2-a.html)

Fletch 25th Nov 2019 15:24


Does that answer some of the above rubbish, and even educate some of you just a little ?
Theres something ironic about that question...


Well, the SNP saved Prestwick Airport, They have written off £33M of the debt,
That's nice of them but you do realise where that £33M(?) comes from?

I've no issues with The Scottish Government owning Prestwick Airport, but they need to be realistic & honest about its future for it to (quite rightly) prosper.
​​​
That £33M(?) has gone (in part) to increase profits at the only based airline & subsidise outbound tourism. Had the money been spent on developing the non-airline aviation industry there, the area/country as a whole may have benefitted more.


The Scotsman has an agenda - it's an Edinburgh 'newspaper'
haha So it's "fake news" ...

Scottish Flyer 25th Nov 2019 15:47

The BAA did not sell off and close Runway 21/03. They did sell off some land well beyond the end of 21 which became a retail park and effectively precluded further extension of the runway. During the latter years of the BAA's ownership the active length was reduced to almost half to save on maintenance costs. It was never closed as at the time of the shortening the BAe Flying College was making intensive use of the runway. After the BAA sold the airport, the runway was restored to its full length.

Skipness One Foxtrot 25th Nov 2019 16:16


Originally Posted by Scottish Flyer (Post 10626273)
The BAA did not sell off and close Runway 21/03. They did sell off some land well beyond the end of 21 which became a retail park and effectively precluded further extension of the runway. During the latter years of the BAA's ownership the active length was reduced to almost half to save on maintenance costs. It was never closed as at the time of the shortening the BAe Flying College was making intensive use of the runway. After the BAA sold the airport, the runway was restored to its full length.

It was closed before the Flying College opened in late '87, as it was all part of the Freeport Scotland farce. The land went to Lynton, a BAA property company
Later the first third was re-activated at cost as it was discovered that AS-202s with student PPLs on board were being challenged with 30 kts crosswinds on too many days.
But it *was* withdrawn from use at one point and was allowed to deteriorate. I walked across it with my dad back in the late 80s before they reopened it, it was in a real mess with many weeds and holes.

ScotsSLF 25th Nov 2019 19:28

Don’t know if BAA ever owned the land beyond the threshold of 21/03 as this was owned by the Ministry of Defence and was the old RAF Ayr. There are still remnants of a couple of the runways , taxiways and fuel stores. Part of the Infratil master plan was to sell off the secondary runway for building purposes supposedly for aviation related activities but South Ayrshire Council weren’t convinced and denied planning permission

inOban 13th Dec 2019 16:48

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-50780934

Losses reduced by growth in cargo and a large increase in fuel sales

Asturias56 15th Dec 2019 05:22

Prestwick Airport has shown a "major improvement" in its financial performance in the last year, according to its annual report.

Accounts filed with Companies House showed the Scottish government-owned airport cut its operating losses to £1m. That was compared with £3m the previous year. Revenue also increased by 35%, from £18.2m to £24.6m.
Capital expenditure on operating assets also reduced year-on-year to £2.6m. The total loss for the year, including loan interest, was £3.8m - a 50% reduction on the previous year.

The airport was taken into public ownership six years ago, after being threatened with closure following heavy losses. In June, the Scottish government announced plans to sell the airport. Transport Secretary Michael Matheson said last month that bids for the state-owned airport were still being considered, despite a 4 October deadline passing.

The airport's annual report stated: "Cargo growth was strong and we expect this growth to continue as we expand our business development activity in this sector and further develop discussions with other dedicated cargo carriers. Glasgow Prestwick continues to be a vital strategic transatlantic fuel stop location for both military and commercial aircraft. Year-on-year fuel sales have increased by 79% due to ongoing business development efforts and our growing reputation for providing an excellent service to these operators."

The airport is run by TS Prestwick Holdco, a private limited company wholly owned by the Scottish government.

'Turnaround continuing'

Airport chief executive Stewart Adams welcomed the latest figures. He said: "The turnaround of the business is continuing apace. The long-term strategic goal of developing all our potential revenue opportunities whilst strictly controlling our cost base is producing positive results. We are far from complacent but the signs are very encouraging."

'Significant progress'

A Scottish government spokesman said: "Glasgow Prestwick Airport is operated on a commercial basis and at arm's length from the Scottish government. These accounts show that the financial performance of the business continues to improve with revenue increasing and operating efficiencies achieved. Significant progress has been made since we bought the business in 2013 and it remains our intention to return it to the private sector. Good progress is being made with the sale process."

LTNman 15th Dec 2019 06:52

When was the last time Prestwick made a profit? Has it every made a profit?

I visited the terminal maybe 10 years ago and thought the place was in a time warp from the 60’s even then. I loved the building but then I like dated buildings that time had forgot. I guess nothing much has changed since my last visit?

GKOC41 15th Dec 2019 08:55

In terms of location - simply the best.

Skipness One Foxtrot 15th Dec 2019 09:05


Originally Posted by GKOC41 (Post 10640311)
In terms of location - simply the best.

Ideally it would sit at the centre of a good catchment area, it sits at a western extremity wheres EDI in the east pulls in Dundee, Aberdeen and Newcastle.
Looks like the route to profitability is military fuel stops, PIK (like SNN) needs a good war!

CabinCrewe 15th Dec 2019 12:16


Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot (Post 10640317)
PIK (like SNN) needs a good war!

If that's all it has to rely on its in big trouble. Sturgo would have something to say no doubt also.

willy wombat 15th Dec 2019 12:46

Growth, being fuel stops and cargo, doesn’t need the 1960s terminal. Would be interesting to know what the results would have been without the cost of running the terminal and subsidising FR.

Asturias56 15th Dec 2019 15:11


Originally Posted by GKOC41 (Post 10640311)
In terms of location - simply the best.


for what? burning tax payers cash??

CabinCrewe 15th Dec 2019 20:18


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 10640533)
for what?

200 of Barratt's finest...

nighthawk117 16th Dec 2019 08:20

That's great news... good to see the airport is starting to turn things round - hopefully that will continue and it can return to profitability.

Asturias56 16th Dec 2019 08:59


Originally Posted by CabinCrewe (Post 10640708)

200 of Barratt's finest...

:ok: plus the obligatory Science Park as well I guess...................

CabinCrewe 18th Dec 2019 18:34

Talks stall...
CH Aviation PIK Sale

tartan 201 18th Dec 2019 18:49


Originally Posted by CabinCrewe (Post 10642984)
Talks stall...
CH Aviation PIK Sale

That article refers to the bid last year by Orbital Access, which was reported in the Scotsman a few weeks ago:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sco...-1-5049720/amp.

However, I don't think think that they're one of the current bidders as the article quotes the chap from OA saying “We decided not to renew our bid. Having been through it before, there was no point in spending on further bid costs"

tartan 201 19th Dec 2019 14:55

Preferred bidder appointed:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshi...rport-21129388

Asturias56 19th Dec 2019 15:47

From BBC

The Scottish government has chosen a preferred bidder for Prestwick Airport.

The airport was taken into public ownership in 2013, after being threatened with closure following heavy losses. Transport Secretary Michael Matheson said he had accepted a recommendation from the airport's operators to appoint a preferred bidder. However, he said that he was not able yet to disclose the identity of the bidder involved.

Mr Matheson revealed last month that bids for the state-owned airport were still being considered, despite a 4 October deadline having passed. In a written statement on Thursday, the minister said the Scottish government had made it clear in 2013 that it intended to return Prestwick to the private sector "when the time was right". He said: "We were pleased that the opportunity to buy the business, set out in the Official Journal of the European Union, attracted considerable interest. Following careful consideration of the bids received, I have accepted a recommendation made by TS Prestwick HoldCo to appoint a preferred bidder. To protect the integrity of the process I am not able to disclose the identity of the bidder at this time but we remain satisfied that good progress is being made in the interests of the business."

Scottish Conservative transport spokesman Jamie Greene said: "If there is positive news about a potential buyer for Prestwick Airport then that process should be allowed to take course and progress. But the Scottish Conservatives have been clear since the airport was nationalised, a significant amount of taxpayers' money has been loaned, not gifted, to this business and we fully expect that any deal which comes to fruition will seek to recover that cash."

Last week, Prestwick Airport reported a "major improvement" in its financial performance in the last year. Accounts filed with Companies House showed the Scottish government-owned airport cut its operating losses from £3m to £1m.

The Hypnoboon 19th Dec 2019 16:19

Positive development, but if the preferred bidder is aviation orientated they will need some deep pockets if they wish to keep passenger ops going...

tartan 201 19th Dec 2019 16:24

AGS according to the Scotsman: https://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...wick-1-5064911

ScotsSLF 19th Dec 2019 16:51


Originally Posted by tartan 201 (Post 10643648)

Didn’t see that one coming but then again this is The Scotsman we’re talking about and they are well known for stirring the **** between GLA and PIK but I suppose we’ll know soon enough.

CabinCrewe 19th Dec 2019 17:01

AGS? not sure if thats good or bad. They are not doing GLA or ABZ any favours past 2 years...

mwm991 19th Dec 2019 19:29


Originally Posted by CabinCrewe (Post 10643674)
AGS? not sure if thats good or bad. They are not doing GLA or ABZ any favours past 2 years...

Or SOU with the flybe cuts.

They are buying the airport for that one sole Ryanair craft based and the circa 500k passengers IMO. Wouldn't even surprise me however if they shut the terminal and Ryanair took the aircraft completely out of the West of Scotland to EDI or elsewhere though!


Navpi 19th Dec 2019 21:45

I thought it might be Persimmon.

I love PWK but I simply cannot see this as being tenable.

ScotsSLF 19th Dec 2019 21:52


Originally Posted by mwm991 (Post 10643737)
Or SOU with the flybe cuts.

They are buying the airport for that one sole Ryanair craft based and the circa 500k passengers IMO. Wouldn't even surprise me however if they shut the terminal and Ryanair took the aircraft completely out of the West of Scotland to EDI or elsewhere though!

Actually its three based FR aircraft durung the summer and two in the winter and its 662,000 PAX. I would suggest that whoever is buying it is buying it for far more than the PAX terminal and before the various 'know it alls' come in with their House Builder jibes I doubt very much if that is what will happen with the airfield. There is some of it that may be sold off (as there is a lot of land) for commercial purposes but the airfield will remain intact given the increase in MRO , FBO, Fuel stop, Training and cargo business. Rumour is that it may not be AGS but again pure speculation without any foundation. Time will tell.

The Hypnoboon 20th Dec 2019 16:34

The Scotsman are reporting that the three parties were AGS, Vinci and another foreign consortium. Time will tell who actually is the preferred bidder is.

CabinCrewe 20th Dec 2019 19:24


Originally Posted by Navpi (Post 10643802)
I thought it might be Persimmon.

Are you one of the much fabled 'know it alls' ? 😀

mwm991 22nd Dec 2019 12:30

Next summer looks like its losing a ton of flights. Alicante, Tenerife, Malaga, Faro, Palma, basically anything with more than 2x weekly frequency was cut, most of them were 6x weekly and are now 4x or less. Initially they were all operating high frequencies and it just seemed like the lost routes were repositioned as additional flights on existing services, but recent changes have seen some of these services chopped by as much as half of what they were originally operating at. Seems to be UK wide as I see LBA has had significant cuts on the other thread.

nighthawk117 23rd Dec 2019 08:18

So the government decided having EDI and GLA owned by the same people was a monopoly and bad for Scottish travellers.. but they've picked GLA owners as the preferred bidder for PIK? Surely not...

CabinCrewe 23rd Dec 2019 09:20


Originally Posted by nighthawk117 (Post 10646038)
So the government decided having EDI and GLA owned by the same people was a monopoly and bad for Scottish travellers.. but they've picked GLA owners as the preferred bidder for PIK? Surely not...

That scenario is nowhere near comparable, and you have no idea what the proposed package and conditions of sale is (eg no commercial pax ops). We don't even know for sure is AGS.

mike current 23rd Dec 2019 18:45

Do the AGS group really need PIK's debt? The numbers at Glasgow aren't exactly encouraging.

CabinCrewe 23rd Dec 2019 19:28


Originally Posted by mike current (Post 10646406)
Do the AGS group really need PIK's debt? The numbers at Glasgow aren't exactly encouraging.

Ive a feeling that debt will mysteriously disappear

SWBKCB 23rd Dec 2019 19:31


Originally Posted by CabinCrewe (Post 10646425)

Ive a feeling that debt will mysteriously disappear

State Aid rules are complicated, I'm not sure it's that easy.

Rob Royston 24th Dec 2019 17:08

Could this interest be related to Heathrow wanting to use Prestwick as a staging post during the construction of runway 3? I think they all sit under the one umbrella.

CabinCrewe 24th Dec 2019 21:39

i never really understood this 'staging post' suggestion using PIK. What international air freight products for building tarmac are flown in or are local to Ayrshire that cant be found in Hounslow?

Rob Royston 24th Dec 2019 23:23

I've never understood it either. Could it be that the work scope temporarily impacts on the cargo hubs at Heathrow and they need to divert some of it elsewhere? The way the papers had it they would be building packages for the Runway 3 extension at PIK and flying them down as required, which sounded a bit of a crazy way of doing things.
Edit:- This release was from last June,
https://www.glasgowprestwick.com/gla...logistics-hub/

EI-BUD 25th Dec 2019 19:43

If AGS take control of PIK we can be more or less sure of an end to the PAX terminal piece of the operation. We can be reasonably sure that FR currently get a super deal that ensure little return for PIK. This purchase neutralises a competitor for the long run, if FR exits or transfers their flights to GLA, then standard commercial charges will apply, and if FR completely exit the void will be filled in GLA by others. Airline charges and items such as parking will go a long way to paying for the purchase price/finance. The airport most likely will take on a focus on freight and aircraft refuelling.

The Scottish government may need to take a write down in their debt if they want to get this over the line.

Ryanair also have a maintenance base their, likely this will be a thorny issue in the context of any revision of commercials?

LTNman 26th Dec 2019 03:25


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 10646428)
State Aid rules are complicated, I'm not sure it's that easy.

It will be a lot easier when the UK leaves the EU. It would be ironic if the deal could only go ahead due a Tory government’s promise on Brexit.

The problem with this deal is that keeping Prestwick’s terminal open would make no financial sense when the passengers could be absorbed into Glasgow Airport’s terminal.

Navpi 26th Dec 2019 22:04

RYR maintenance.
Large hangar at Manchester available where they could rotate more aircraft ?


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