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Originally Posted by Copenhagen
(Post 10133228)
Oh the crocodile tears from people in this thread complaining that CO ‘dumped us’, when these same people flew long haul from Dublin. The route was losing money in 2011 - so it’s unfair to say that United didn’t try and maintain the connectivity. https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/tra...-28655745.html With Norwegian unsurprisingly failing to make it work, I can’t see anyone else taking up the route until perhaps EI get the 321LR, and a subsidy. A big subsidy. Oh and a cherry on top of that subsidy. Their Jet blue connectivity in JFK could help the viability. |
The route was losing money in 2011 - so it’s unfair to say that United didn’t try and maintain the connectivity.
Swings and roundabouts, when an airline sees a chance to make its route more viable in can cry fowl. Hence a reduction in APD. Sure we were told the BA shuttle service to LHR was losing millions for years, reason so as BA could scale it back! |
Originally Posted by Fly757X
(Post 10133291)
Keep in mind JetBlue themselves are looking a T/A offerings themselves once they receive the A321LRs.
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Good grief, there is no mistique here, airlines are commercial enterprises, they maximise revenue and need to make a sustainable return. They are accountable to shareholders. Simples. Whether United made a profit or not, the reality is that the profit / yield was not to their liking, and they exited. The market is to leisure focused and extremely seasonal. That's it in a nutshell.
Norwegian while it can stimulate demand, it only is point to point. So in a sense not exactly what the airport needs. Virgin have been acutely aware of the seasonal factor and as a result been building the service to be in a limited basis and now it has been extended. Hopefully they can earn a sustainable return across all months. |
Originally Posted by Ringwayman
(Post 10132783)
MAN has a hybrid operation: "hoilday routes" to MCO (10 weekly or thereabouts) with BGI & LAS both 2 weekly. "Business routes" to JFK and ATL daily (both appear to be 4 weekly in winter) with summer seasonal on MAN-SFO 3 weekly and MAN-BOS 2 weekly (though the primary focus for SFO and BOS may be holiday traffic, the hope is that hi-tech links between SFO and MAN based compnanies can get it to also become year-round as they are attempting to garner corporate traffic).
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Belfast - North America is a predominantly outbound market, and Jet Blue have zero brand recognition in Northern Ireland. They will struggle to make the route work without significant investment. They would be more likely to launch a Dublin, Edinburgh and Amsterdam, which have strong inbound, year round flows. Norwegian had low brand recognition on both sides of the BFS - North America market, and with unknown secondary airport choices and no feed, meant that the route was going to fail from day one. The only semi semi viable options are United returning, or a DL/VS 752 operation. Anyone else will only work with a huge incentive guarantee. |
The 321LR is clearly the right sort of aircraft for a transatlantic from Belfast. The JetBlue product is ready to go, they just need the aircraft. With Level also touting the 321’s - would they (IAG) be any less well known than Level?
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Maybe Primera and add a few sun routes as well
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Originally Posted by Copenhagen
(Post 10133427)
Belfast - North America is a predominantly outbound market, and Jet Blue have zero brand recognition in Northern Ireland. They will struggle to make the route work without significant investment. They would be more likely to launch a Dublin, Edinburgh and Amsterdam, which have strong inbound, year round flows. Norwegian had low brand recognition on both sides of the BFS - North America market, and with unknown secondary airport choices and no feed, meant that the route was going to fail from day one. The only semi semi viable options are United returning, or a DL/VS 752 operation. Anyone else will only work with a huge incentive guarantee. |
Originally Posted by Speedhawk
(Post 10133287)
Clearly the route didn't work given that United axed the service last year. BFS-EWR was also one of United's cheapest UK/Ireland routes, with economy fares regularly £150-£200 below United's services from BHX, MAN and other airports. I know of several people who self-connected at BFS as it was cheaper than flying direct from MAN or BHX.
From 2006-2011 Continental carried over 100,000 annual pax on the route. From 2012-2016 United carried approx 80,000 annual pax. To some extent perhaps, but there were multiple daily flights from DUB throughout the route's existence. The route was only seasonal in 2015; United resumed year-round flights in 2016, showing United couldn't make the route work year-long without the additional funding promised by Stormont. Continental stated at the time that the route was only viable in the long term with a load factor of over 80% (which is approx 98,000 pax), meaning passenger figures suggest BFS-EWR was viable from the route's inception in 2005 until 2011. However, the route's financial performance was likely marginal during this period, given that Continental were planning to axe the route in 2011 unless APD was cut. From 2012 to 2014, the route carried on average 83,000 pax, and fell to 69,258 when the route went seasonal in 2015. When the route returned to year-round in 2016, United handled 79,042 pax. United went to Stormont in 2016 to request additional funding, meaning that the route was clearly still marginal in 2016 despite 2011 APD reductions and other funding from Stormont throughout the route's existence. Aer Lingus will not be operating transatlantic flights from BFS, unless of course they completely tear up their current business strategy. |
Originally Posted by owenc
(Post 10132935)
So you think the route could’ve worked if they continue d to have it year round? Originally Posted by Speedhawk https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif The route was only seasonal in 2015; United resumed year-round flights in 2016, showing United couldn't make the route work year-long without the additional funding promised by Stormont. |
Originally Posted by toledoashley
(Post 10133452)
The 321LR is clearly the right sort of aircraft for a transatlantic from Belfast. The JetBlue product is ready to go, they just need the aircraft. With Level also touting the 321’s - would they (IAG) be any less well known than Level?
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When does the second Jet2 737-800 take up duty in Bfs?
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Originally Posted by owenc
(Post 10133593)
Please tell me anywhere in the European Continent that Jetblue has good brand recognition.
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Does anyone know LF for today’s first flight to Funchal? |
136, dunno bout return leg
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Jet2
for information https://nitravelnews.com/news/jet2-c...r-summer-2018/ |
Belfast to Doha in future? See final paragraph.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-q...source=twitter |
Originally Posted by pwalhx
(Post 10136261)
Belfast to Doha in future? See final paragraph.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-q...source=twitter |
Originally Posted by 29Alpha
(Post 10136392)
funny one, we are getting nothing like that at the moment, not even a sniff of a widebody transatlantic currently, business travellers are the key and they all have to go England or the republic of ireland
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