Overhead locker injury BA
 

The papers are reporting another overhead locker injury on BA. A passenger has been injured quite badly.

The max weight allowed was quoted as 25kg. This is almost inconceivable, will do some research.

Just checked the BA website and limit is 23kg which is the same as checked baggage !

heavy items are meant to go under the seat.

That wouldn't worry a weight lifter. It needs a lot more control from cabin crew.

It's often too late for cabin crew to take action. Passengers checking in online make their first contact with BA staff at the boarding gate. The ground staff at BA are seriously reduced and facing constant demotivational change. Getting large heavy bags off passengers at the gate causes delays which are attributed to the ground staff. Better to let the bags onboard and allow the cabin crew to have any blame for delay attributed to them. Departmental targets equal a broken approach to the required end result. A safe on time departure.

I have moved bags forward to be off-loaded only to find the door closed and the jetty retreating from the aircraft in the rush to sit in a queue for take off. Nobody wants the blame for a delay attributed to their department.

Look as though weight limit should be reduced and carry on bags weighed at the final check in for embarkation at the gate.

How did they determine the extent of the injury to the locker?
X-ray
MRI
Ctscan

This should never become a cabin crew issue and underseat stowage is not the answer unless I'm travelling on different (BA ) aircraft!

Sensible but enforced weight limits at SECURITY checks are IMHO the place to address this. If you're overweight you get sent back to check in which is the correct place to sort it out, not once on board.

Baggage weight restrictions.
 

Security seems to me a poor place to enforce baggage weight restrictions.

Take a hard look at the reason folk are carrying on >20kg "hand baggage".

Baggage slows you down, post 9/11 security has increased transit time through the airport drastically - no-one wants to spend any more time than they have to as part of the process.

Airlines are incentivizing SLF to not check in bags (especially Lo-Co's).

If you want to be serious about enforcing carry-on limitations, then you need to take a look at the amount of time spent in the airport and manage it more efficiently. How long does it take to ascertain that an item of luggage is oversize/overweight, initially might cause some problems but once SLF realise that rules will be applied, there will be diminishing returns..

So speed up the the baggage handling process, don't penalize SLF for checking in normal luggage, enforce the rules and/or re-introduce sensible limits.

There is the distinct possibility that by standardizing luggage and enforcing carry-on rules, departure times might be positively impacted.

Or alternatively you can have the bean counters work out how many personal injury claims it takes to offset the savings.

Law suit to follow shortly ?

Dunno:ok:

As for the passenger being "injured quite badly" ("seriously injuried" according to one account) Some reports went onto to say that he/she had recovered enough to leave for BKK on a flight the morning following the accident.........

Jack,

With internet, self check in and the like, where else do you suggest before the bag gets on board?

People also use carry-on luggage because they are fed up of luggage getting rifled in some countries & airports. I was amazed when I visited the US how much people carried on, was told this was partly why. I was flying Continental.

We actually don't know if this passenger was hit by an overweight/oversize bag, and whether or not it belonged to the victim.

Given the specifics of this flight - at LHR T5 everbody's hand baggage should be screened for size before conformance (i.e. going airside) and again at the gate....if you have two item the smaller items get a natty little yellow tag meaning you should put it under the seat in front....

As PC767 has said the backstop is the gate staff....

FWIW I have very recently seen a (BA) flight delayed to put hand baggage in the hold. If the commander doesn't sign the paperwork until handbaggage issues have been resolved it's kind of difficult for the ground staff to do a runner and pull the steps/jetty :ok:

The only problem with some of the "bright" ideas posters come up with is that it would add an extra hour to board an A380! As someone mentioned above, in recent times more and more airlines (including those legacy carriers who began to charge seperately for hold baggage) have encouraged passengers to travel with carry-on only. Consequently I place the blame squarely on them. Oh, and it should not in any way be the concern of the security personnel. Their heads are big enough as it is!

wiggy.

Agree with you, but it doesn't even matter if the Capt has signed and they have pulled the steps. They simply have to be returned to the A/C side for excess baggage to be relocated. After all, the Capt doesn't have to release the brakes!

Longer term solution maybe...

Why not redesign future aircraft interiors and put the luggage lockers under the seats....

#justsayin

Heavy bags
 

As an aside to all this, I recall an incident many years ago now, when the pax were queuing on the tarmac (in the heat!) and the engineer tripped over someone’s briefcase. He was puzzled that the briefcase seemed to be screwed to the ground and called me to check. It weighed a ton and was full of gold jewellery. The courier seemed a fairly slight chap but actually was a weight-lifter. We had to get load spreaders for the hold and I have often wondered what would have happened had it gone into an overhead locker, which was the original intention.:E:{
Prober

Slightly different angle on this but has anyone noticed the max load placard on the inside of the bins? At 23Kg a bag I can tell you that with three or more in say, an A320 bin that figure is likely to be exceeded by some margin. And those bins are attached to the structure of the aircraft...

As a start just get the Authorities to require a reduction in weight. 15 kg would do for an initial change.

Some years ago, there was an instance where many coin dealers were flying to a 'convention' (where they could also trade coins).
Apparently, the cabin baggage was significantly 'overweight' as each trader was carrying as much as they could lift in their hand luggage.

Carry on bags in NZ are only 7kgs :eek:

And they actually do check the weight of them prior to customs.
As soon as you walk through the doors, there is a person standing there with a set of scales. If your bags look like they are over 7kgs, they will stop you and ask to weigh the bags. If they are over, back down to check in you go.

Works quite well and no long queues. Quite a few heavy bags slip by but for the most part, the extreme ones are stopped.

A while back I've been asked at Southampton when checking in to put my hold baggage on Scales...
and then to put the hand baggage on as well to check it is within the weight limits specified.

Weighing hand baggage at check-in is only effective to a point. If one is being seen off by friends or family it's easy to make sure your hand baggage weighs in below limits whilst someone else holds the offending extra kilos of stuff out of sight.

Domestic carry-on limit with TAM in Brazil is 5kg.But,on the 2 flights I took,there didn't seem to be anyone checking weights.

overhead lockers
 

Is there a possibility of overloading the overhead lockers ?
I have often wondered.

I was chastised at the check-in at Narita for having a heavy cabin bag. All I had in it was a small Macbook with power adaptors, an SLR and smaller camera, an electric toothbrush and a spare pair of shoes. Surely this isn't excessive?

Having said that, the single most weighty item was the (wheeled) cabin bag itself. I see how this alone could cause injury, especially if it fell on a seated passenger. Do we ban these?

Wheel-it-on baggage
 

Precisely! When carry-on becomes wheel-it-on this immediately implies HEAVY.
And why every six year-old needs one for a two hour flight beggars belief.

Let me see. Every checked bag is xrayed for security and any stuff like laptops, cameras etc gets stolen by the handlers who have compulsory access. My camera stuff weighs 5 kgs, my laptop and ipad 4kg, how am I supposed to travel with a 7kg carry on?

BTW I would be ready to travel naked and even wait for luggage, thereby minimizing security searches, if the airline made a real effort to get my winter coat laptop and camera to wherever I am going.

Edmund

It's all very well weighing bags early in the process, but what about those who load up in the duty-free shop? It is trivial to circumvent a check-in weight, and speaking personally, if I've got a mid-afternoon flight then I may well be carrying lunch with me at check-in. Although it's going to make the flight, it's not going to be in the carry-on bag when I board the aircraft.

What would be far more use is an early size check, on the basis that some of what I see in the boarding queue is really taking the piss when it comes to size. If there has to be a weight check, it needs to be in the run-up to boarding, by which time all stuff to be carried on should have been acquired. It might also make the flight safer, by giving the flight crew a more accurate weight for carry-on.

One problem is that one could have different weight allowances depending on the airline.
The weight limits for carry-on baggage are clearly shown on the tickets - 7Kg in OZ.
Ensure the baggage (size and weight) are within limits at the boarding gate.
If the SLF cannot stick within the limits for the baggage, leave the overweight/oversize baggage behind to travel as freight on the next service. Been there, done that.

Once it happens a few times, "social media" will spread the word quickly.

Some A32S bin latches are only rated for 32KG (total) so many (European) airlines restrict handluggage to 8KG max/piece. BA is not one of them for some reason.

LX in ZRH and OS in VIE has G4S security staff standing before security and sending you to check-in your bag when overweight.

What Really Happened ?
 

Despite all the discussion, we really do not know what happened, nor the nature of the problem.

Firstly, was the carry-on overweight? Did the injury occur while the SLF or member of the CC was placing it in the overhead ? Did they lose their grip and drop the carry-on bag ? Was the injury to the owner of the bag, or to some unfortunate soul who was already seated under the bin ? -- and finally, did this occur during boarding, while in flight ( bin collapse or cover failure) or during deplaning ? Each of these questions can lead to a very different discussion. Does anyone know ?

While asking if anyone knows, how do they handle an FAA approved oxygen concentrator in OZ ? The smallest I have seen is about 8 kg and is approved as cabin luggage, if required by the passenger, in most of the world.

The original BA incident certainly happened prior to departure. Some media reports say the aircraft was taxiing, BA sources say it wasn't.

Away back in December 1970, my family moved from Berkeley California to Britain. My oldest son had learned to scuba dive in California, and insisted on bringing his diving kit, including the weight belt! it didn't go in the overhead, however, he just wore it under his jacket.....

The best place to check the weight is as you are checked to go on board in the Departure Lounge.

It strikes me that the bigger problem is the unknown total weight and balance of the aircraft. Since there is a significant amount of this unweighed baggage entering the AC. Its one thing to estimate it, but if you have a coin convention or a dive trip (see below) it could be significant.

I have used this trick myself as a diver on a low cost airline. Put the heavy stuff in my hand luggage (regulators, torches etc) and i end up with a 14kg hand luggage and a 20kg hold luggage. Thus avoiding the ridiculous sports equipment charges.

The problem is that people find a way to make systems work for them.

I would say its sensible to limit the size (to something like a small backpack, satchel) and weight to 5kg (no wheels), and increase the hold luggage back to 23/25kg as it used to be.
Its enough to allow the valuables to be carried, and mothers to look after kids.

I also think the carriage of alcohol in bins should be stopped. Hundreds of litres of flammable liquid in the cabin. I forget which accident it was, but it was highlighted as causing accelerated spread of fire and death in at least one case.

Having worked for said airline, the hang luggage size/weight has been an on going issue. The company is scared of upsetting it's pax (particularly it's gold card holders) and as such seem is very lenient with what is let on board. The numbers of gate staff has gradually reduced, so they (not all, some are very proactive) struggle to police what is coming on board. Many a time, the crew are left with numerous wheelie bags in the galley during boarding on the A320 family due to a lack of space. The procedure is for the dispatcher (TRM) to close the door, remove the airbridge, then reattach the airbridge and open the door to off load bags, this making it a handing delay. However, many a time, the airbridge doesn't come back.

I flew with American Eagle a couple of years ago, only the agent boarding the flight, yet she managed to check every passengers' item of hand luggage and tagged that was too big, impressive.

Another issue is 'hand baggage only' fares. So, pax bring on their worldly possessions, some of them look like buckaroo.

Then you have those who have connected off from a 747/777/A380 and think that their crate will fit into the locker of a A319.

I hope that the passenger recovered and I hope that the airline will finally start looking into more strict guidelines.

When bean-counters started charging for hold baggage,the encouragement is to stuff as much as you can into the cabin. When you start having to place cabin baggage under the seat in front because it won't fit or there is no room in the overhead, compromised safety is surely an issue ? Try fast evacuation with bags impeding your exit . Someone else alluded to the weight issue. Just how heavy is your aircraft these days ? Tons of stuff in the cabin, not correctly shown on the load-sheet. And all this, traced back to greedy companies charging for hold-baggage.

Just booked up for my Xmas break. Airline states check-in at reception compulsory, no prior "on-line" nonsense. Hold baggage goes free. Meal provided. ICAO limitation on hand-baggage. All this for not much more than the cheapo flights with all the add-ons. Sheer joy. I am going to use this company over and over and over again !