This is O'leary's and his like's legacy to the air passenger; aircraft flying around with empty holds (to which the ground handler still has to come to even if there's only 1 bag in it) while the cabin resembles Asda on 'Black Friday'. It's a scene of frustrated passengers, stress levels rising, trying to squeeze their oversized and overweight bags (which should be in the hold) into any available orifice while the poor cabin crew trying to impose some form of order.

At first, allocated seating bit the dust in the name of egalitarianism (read free-for-all and survival of the fittest). One line of code in the booking system was all that was required to bring it back and look at how well it works (again).

Having said that, have you noticed how the locos have conditioned passenger behavior. Even with allocated seats passengers (even BA passengers who never had to endure the stampede to the aircraft steps) stand in a queue at the gate for 30mins plus before the flight is even called.

Why? Because they know that there will be an ensuing fight for overhead locker space.

The revival of allocated seating can happen for hold luggage. There will always be a need for those in a hurry to get through the airport as quickly as possible hence a need for sensibly sized and weighted carry-on but I'd suggest that for the majority, the option to put bags in the hold, free of charge, should be reintroduced and the first airline, particularly a loco, that does this will reap rewards.

There are no really cheap fares these days and a pound or two on a fare (which is an unknown variable in any case) would help alleviate the problem.

Max, There is a roar of "here here" in the house !

Absolutely!

BA Response
 

BA seem to be staying very quiet about the entire matter. Presumably, they do not wish to infer that they have any responsibility in the matter, either from their ludicrous 23 kg allowance or defective overhead bin latch,

I'm sure that they are ready to once again offer the bottle of whisky, which they offered as compensation to the LHR to YYC passenger, whose seat broke during climbout from LHR. After having to spend much of that flight on his feet, that passenger declined the bottle as an "insult".

The industry doesn't help itseft in having such big lockers. On short haul do away with them and have a storage area at the back of the cabin. Works on train journeys when you have baggage.

When airlines can 100% guarantee that my camera (1 body 2 lenses so not excessive by any means) and laptop will get to my destination undamaged and all present only then would it ever go in the hold. My camera bag will fit in the overhead bin on all the types I regularly fly on inc Embraer 135 / 145.

Airlines encourage people to bring as much as they into the cabin by charging for hold baggage. Yet always state not to put valuable items in the hold - catch 22.

And let's not forget that the airlines assume NO liability for loss or damage to fragile items or valuables. T&C's expressly forbid you to place these in your checked luggage.

It seems they have dumbed down the checked baggage process to the extent that they cannot trust their own staff, or outsourced staff, not to steal from their customers.

And they charge an arm and a leg (much higher than their own -45/100kg freight charges) for the privilege of checking a bag.

They have only got themselves to blame.

From Virgin Australia
And 7Kg carry on baggage

Cabin Baggage issues.
 

Some years ago I made comments to the Baggage Management people of an American Carrier which transferred their pax onto our flights. Our carrier and their's had different cabin baggage allowances. The response was that their allowance was high for competitive reasons and if their over head could accommodate. If we didn't allow the same then it was our problem. So it's competition first and passenger safety second, although that would be denied.
The "Fragile and valuable" escape is a scam too. Define "Valuable." To me, a £200 camera is valuable but to a wealthy bloke, it's small change.
As I mentioned in my original posting which wasn't published in Pprune, some US carriers say at if you can't lift your bag into the overhead and it's too large to fit underneath, then it gets checked. I am not a gentleman when watching a woman struggling with her bag, then turning and looking pathetic. Your problem lady.

Only one bag should be allowed (per pax) in the overheads. If you bring more than one, you lose your foot space, not me.

If you cant lift it above your head, its too heavy and should be under the seat. Your problem, not mine.

If its too heavy for you to carry and needs to be dragged along with wheels, it is too heavy and needs to be with the checked luggage

Quite simple rules really but common sense doesn't apply all the time airlines charge for checked bags.

What price cheap seats?
 

The totally predictable and entirely understandable consequence of charging for hold baggage is for passengers to attempt to take it as hand baggage. As ever, most passengers don't read the conditions (who does?) and check-in and gate staff are given nothing but hassle when they try to control excessive baggage. The problem is then transferred to the cabin. This results in arguments with "space invaders" (those who place their bags anywhere), delays, missed slots, missed connections and worst of all, injuries like those described earlier.

Solutions available are 1. Enforce the carry on policies or 2. Re-consider the charge for hold baggage. But no airline wants to be the first to do this (airline marketing people are not known for their strength of character or backbone). I just hope we don't injure too many people before we sort out this mess.

My part in the process to support check-in, gate staff and cabin crew whenever they have to deal with excessive baggage. I'm not going to go flying with carry on baggage which has not been properly stowed. But in doing so I annoy those people who have stuck to the limits who I delay and really p!ss off those who try to put hold baggage in the cabin. Fortunately I'm not paid for popularity.

So until we do the job properly (whichever route is chosen) this problem will be with us for the foreseeable future. Welcome to the race to the bottom.

PM

I'm so glad others have noted this issue with unweighed baggage. A couple of years ago on a BA flight from EWR back to the UK, I was appalled how much hand luggage (by hand luggage I actually mean big heavy suitcases) was being allowed on - especially as you can check at least 1 23kg suitcase into the hold.

BA didn't seem to be enforcing their own rules, and when we boarded the 777, crew were really struggling to find spaces for the passengers stuff. I even saw 1 passenger dragging 3 items on board.

I'd be more than happy to see this policy strictly enforced. I've seen easyjet crew enforce this effectively on passengers as they board, so I'm sure BA could.

I was once asked [by a lady who had firmly planted herself in the aisle as she was in the second row of seats from the front] if I wouldn't mind getting her "luggage" down from the overhead...

IT WAS A :mad: POTPLANT

Approx 3' bent in there, spilling loam all over the place with one of those thick heavy painted planters, "hang on says I, I'll just try from this side; nope; see ya !"

:ugh::hmm::ugh::hmm::ugh:

Don't shoot the messenger, but as I see it there are two reasons why people take the urine with carry-ons.

1. Many airlines discourage hold baggage by the fees they charge. Passengers are motivated by the airline's policies to check nothing in. Some are entirely free up to two bags (eg Southwest), but many charge for hold bags.

2. In the US, airlines are hub/spoke operations, so unless you live close to a hub, you will be connecting. People want to take their bags with them so they make the tight connections. A small delay on the first flight would very possibly mean that checked bags would not make the second flight. As an illustration of this, the crew's bags are always in the cabin, never checked. If the crew's bags are important, so are the passengers'.

Travel light or wear big heavy hiking boots (or both....)
 

No pretense here of solving the various problems which beset the stowage and carriage of baggage of airline passengers. Rather, a look back to the past, and a question about something that might work, maybe.
Many years back, a mere lad of schoolboy age, I relished the carrying of a hanging garment bag when I traveled - always in coach, never in First Class - and politely asking (well, mostly politely) a "stewardess" -- that is what they were called then -- if I could hang the garment bag in the little closet-like space typically either at the front door of the cabin or at the back of the First Class section. (As a debate team member I often traveled with sport jackets and so on, hence the bag.)
I'd be willing to wager that service-members in most any sub-branch of the Armed Forces of any NATO or similarly allied country, traveling today on a C-17 or similar transport, don't worry too much about where their duffels and other equipage gets stowed. They don't need much in the way of advance reservations and they also (with rare and incidental exceptions, I suppose) have and use sufficient self-reliance. Maybe the airlines should start treating passengers like troops. You know, when was something that defies common sense ever excusable in uniform?

(Hat, gloves, under the desk)

A Modest Proposal
 

Now that fees are charged for checked baggage, we can use the pax instead of rampies to load the hold;)

• Pax with large baggage board through the hold
• Stow baggage in hold
• When leaving hold subjected to strict check for bags not allowed in cabin - leave them in hold.
• First to deposit baggage in hold is last in hold on arrival

Re post by PC767
You report to the Captain of the aircraft, that the aircraft is not ready for either taxy or take off, due to a flight safety situation. He then requires, that the air bridge is returned to the aircraft & the offending baggage is off loaded!

Air NZ's 7kg is unrealistic, my 30 yr. old cabin bag, that I have no intention of changing, weighs 4 kg empty, and I take the bare minimum into the cabin, passports, tickets, money, etc. etc. is carried in a voluminous shirt with large packets sold by a travel company for that purpose, so I usually pass the cabin bag Gestapo check - and believe me, they do check, as has been mentioned.

10 kg would probably be more realistic.

Mind you - Air NZ do also print that one is allowed a laptop and "reading material" in addition, so there is room for a bit of a fiddle factor there. ( large tomes hollowed out ? )