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St. Helena Service
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good news but it would be good if it ran Ascension - St Helena - Joburg and vv
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Notably Comair fly their 737s in British Airways livery, being one of the few BA franchised brand operators to remain. When the service starts, I'm sure journalists in the UK will all refer to it as BA.
Also noticed that flights will be from Johannesburg whereas it seems it was previously expected to be from Cape Town. |
It would have been better have gone with Atlantic Star ( who have at least visited the island and spoken to Saints and Goverment ) to bring in tourists from Europe. Most Saints have connections with Cape Town and if flights to South Africa were decided on this would have been a better destination.
See St Helena online for further background: St Helena Online | South Atlantic news, in association with The St Helena Independent This decision seems to smack of the ongoing blundering that is common amongst the ruling classes in London and those on St Helena. |
Wouldn't a 737-800 be WAT limited on a JNB - St Helena run?
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Yeah it was only meant to be the 737 700, A319 and 757 that were supposed to be able to operate relatively "normally" on 3-5 hour sectors from St Helena. The article quotes a 138 seat aircraft being used but they don't have a 138 seater... What's the takeoff performance like of a 733? They are configured with 118 seats.
I'd bet they'll use a 733. 738 is likely too big/too marginal and same goes for the 734. |
From the Comair website:
We operate 26 Boeing aircraft, of which 18 we own; 7 x B737-300s 7 x B737-400s 4 x B737-800s 8 aircraft are leased from foreign-owned leasing companies; 3 x B737-400s 5 x B737-800s INVESTING in the future, we are in the process of upgrading our entire fleet to Boeing 737-800s. The new aircraft offer a higher seating capacity, lower operating cost and extended potential daily utilisation. It's better to operate one machine weight limited for one route than to keep a type specifically for that route. As to the link to CPT, there are so many connections as not to matter and Comair know that there will be many folks arriving in JNB who only want to go to St.Helena (STH??) for a once in a life time trip. |
I suspect Comair's operational base at JNB may be more relevant.
Regarding the 737-800's lesser capability, is this not only at MTOW; with a finite load, say 100 pax, I understand it performs as well if not better than a 737-700. As I understand it, bulk fuel will not be available at St Helena, and thus the aircraft needs to carry round trip fuel when departing South Africa, which is what makes the JNB departure (at 6,000 ft elevation) more surprising compared to sea-level Cape Town. They would need to carry that anyway because there is no diversion point short of return to base. |
Bulk fuel will be available as Basil Read have installed tankage.
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Many saints are very unhappy at JNB being picked, reasons quoted were:
1. Rumours of lost baggage and theft at Johannesburg Airport 2. Violence in Johannesburg 3. Existing medical appointments etc. In Cape Town So is this Atlantic Star over and done with then? I hope not |
It would be less distance and probably shorter overall journey times to service St Helena from Lagos.
To have to go via Jo'burg or Cape town would be more of dog-leg for most people if they have no need to visit south Africa (and are not travelling from Australia) |
But who would want to transit Lagos with the risk of missed connections and having to overnight somewhere?!
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peterhr has clearly never had the pleasure of Mutala Muhhamad International. You go there if you really really have to, for no other reason!
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"Many saints are very unhappy at JNB being picked,"
i gues if they'd paid for the airport they might have more say............ |
"peterhr has clearly never had the pleasure of Mutala Muhhamad International. You go there if you really really have to, for no other reason!"
standard security advice is not to leave the airport building until you are met by someone you know and trust (not necessarily the same thing in Lagos ... or Moscow...) |
It's not just the medical facilities but all the commercial contacts from St Helena are with Cape Town, because that's where the ship RMS St Helena sails to and from, and always has done. There are many who go to university there, have relatives there, have fishing vessel and marine contacts there, etc.
I wonder if anyone at the UK Department of International Development in Whitehall actually understood that Jo'burg is not on the coast. |
While I have sympathy with the 4,500 residents, if they're running the flight to wherever they think the most tourists will want to come from, then they're running it to the least commercially unviable place...
Will the airport be capable of accommodating some kind of UK - Ascension - St Helena - Falklands service? I presume someone somewhere will want to try this if it can be done, at the very least for a few package tours each summer?? |
Originally Posted by 01475
(Post 8915348)
While I have sympathy with the 4,500 residents, if they're running the flight to wherever they think the most tourists will want to come from, then they're running it to the least commercially unviable place...
My suspicion is that, as a UK government contract, it has just been given to the operator from anywhere who came up with the lowest quote, regardless. I don't know if it's a Gross Revenue or a Net Revenue contract; that is, whether it's just a charter, with the UK government receiving any fares income and taking the revenue risk over and above the subsidy, or whether this fares risk and potential revenue is the airline's with the subsidy just being a fixed amount. Will the airport be capable of accommodating some kind of UK - Ascension - St Helena - Falklands service? I presume someone somewhere will want to try this if it can be done, at the very least for a few package tours each summer?? |
"My suspicion is that, as a UK government contract, it has just been given to the operator from anywhere who came up with the lowest quote, regardless"
yup -we're paying for it and we want it to be as cheap as possible |
Cape Town already has equivalent links to the main hubs in Europe and the ME3 hubs, |
A suggestion from left-field, but still curious...what about a weekly TFS/LPA one day? Both offer a truly vast selection of onward European connections.
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Who would operate it? Yes they offer connections but it would require 2 bookings and flying with someone like TCX/TOM/EZY/LS/DE/AB etc.
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Just thinking hypothetically, somewhat outside the box and a few years hence - working on the assumption that the new airport won't be capable of taking large aircraft. London to St Helena is approx 4000 NM whereas from the Canaries its 2,650 NM. Would this not put them within range for some of the smaller equipment the European carriers have available?
Demand obviously depends on the tourism product available in St Helena, but for the UK/German market a change of planes in Tenerife or Gran Canaria would be 5 hours less than a return trip via Jo'burg assuming equal stopover time, and I dare say a little more desirable. Not talking down the Johannesburg route here, I'm floating an option for a future route north. |
Who's got the ATC contract at St. Helena?
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Sunday8pm - the main issue with your suggestion is alternates. Ascension cannot be filed as an alternate, and the other options give rise to real problems in payload/range calcs.
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Originally Posted by BasilBush
(Post 8926406)
Sunday8pm - the main issue with your suggestion is alternates. Ascension cannot be filed as an alternate, and the other options give rise to real problems in payload/range calcs.
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Ihla do Sal in the Cape Verde Islands would be a possible on a southerly routing.In days of Yore, South African Airways big orange tails used to `fly round the bulge`from places like LHR,Lisbon, Rome,Paris etc all the way to Jo Burg and Capetown with a splash and dash at Ihla north and south..
They did it with fuel hungry 707`s then 747`s for many years..No real alternates in those days, just hope and pray :D...but they did it :D |
Thread Drift
Indeed they did paully and 'flying round the bulge' was the reason they became a customer for the 747 SP, along with other carriers who had to make diverse routings for political reasons. I 'bounced' at SID a few times in the small hours of the morning. You stayed onboard and were only on the ground for about 75 minutes. |
sunday8pm
I don't know the answer to your question about Luanda. Another problem with your suggestion is the issue of duty hours. Would the same crew be able to fly out and back? If not, wouldn't they be faced with carrying a spare crew (not sure of the regs on that) or alternatively slipping crews in St Helena who would then have to wait for the next flight in (say) a week's time? That would be expensive, and there isn't much hotel accommodation on the island anyway... I'm not trying to be negative, but the peculiarities of St Helena's location mean that a lot of the otherwise sensible suggestions made on this thread aren't really practicable. |
I'm assuming of course that a northern Europe - St Helena route is not possible due to restrictions on the size of aircraft the new airport can welcome, for whatever reason. I'm wondering whether the Canaries might be near enough as at 2700nm they're in range for smaller types. Las Palmas to St Helena would be approximately 6 - 6.5 hours, could the aircraft overnight there?
With the Canaries being so accessible for the western European population, and their tourist infrastructure so developed, it would (perhaps) be easier to get the bums to the seats for a St Helena flight than if it were taking off from Accra or Lagos. The long-term purpose of this airport is surely to bring in tourists so the island can become more self sufficient. As you hint, the tourism product will have to develop on the island before that's possible. I just don't see European tourists getting there with a change in Jo'burg. A 16 hour trip costing £1300 wouldn't represent value for money. As I mention above, the Jo'burg route is fine for servicing the island, and will get use from locals and South Africans alike, but whether it alone will bring much money into St Helena I'm not so sure. |
1st flight to new airport St Helena
The first flight to touch down on the new runway at St Helena is on the way, due about 14.00 today 15 Sept. It will be doing calibration flights from there for the next few days.
Follow flight on: http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0hsvsapz7DRHlAkBqsSqcd9I8DqcjeFyu Additional info on Twitter: http://twitter.com/hashtag/TestFlightStHelena?src=hash |
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Thanks for sharing that Racedo..was great :)
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On a light note, I recall during a visit to St Helena, being told by the Governor that, in the past, children born to local ladies who had become particularly close to visiting sailors were registered under the surname "Shipman".
Let's hope that, in the future, it won't be necessary to register children under the surname "Airman".......:uhoh: Jack |
Originally Posted by Charley B
(Post 9125925)
Thanks for sharing that Racedo..was great :)
Welcome, got it by accident and figured should share as really is big deal for there. |
More about the calibration flights
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Some rumours about the calibration are saying a reconfig may be neccessary and then more flights to test the system.
More concrete news on the flights to Ascension Island from St Helena online: Monthly flights between St Helena and Ascension Island have been negotiated, after months of discontent over the vital link being excluded from the original deal with winning contractor Comair. Each month, of the the airline’s Saturday flights from Johannesburg will land at St Helena and then continue on to Ascension for an overnight stop, before a return flight on the same route. Executive councillor Lawson Henry had led angry calls for a way to be found for Saints working on Ascension and the Falklands to be able to fly home without expensive detours of many thousands of miles. Ascension Island Government acknowledge support from Governor Mark Capes and Enterprise St Helena in applying pressure for the link to be provided. |
now that makes sense - RAF to Ascension and then onwards to St Helena and Serf Efrika looks like a nice trip..........
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Further to my previous report about rumours about possible recalibration being needed after the calibration flights etc see the following report from the St Helena Independent:
The team from Flight Calibration Services Limited (FCSL) and TAB Charters - who made the first ever landing at St Helena Airport and carried out a series of calibration flights between 15 and 23 September 2015 - has now submitted their preliminary findings and Basil Read is in the process of undertaking corrective actions. As is normal after initial calibration testing of navigational aids, there are corrections which Basil Read will now make. The majority of these are minor tweaks to equipment, but in a few cases some redesign and relocation work might be required. This includes the Localiser and DVOR. Basil Read is working with Thales and FCSL to carry out modelling work to inform the design and determine the extent of the rectification work. FCSL will return to the Island, possibly in the latter part of 2015 or early 2016, to recalibrate the NavAids following the rectification work. Basil Read Island Director Deon de Jager said: “Calibration work generally results in the need for corrective action and the teams in Basil Read and Thales are currently working on solutions. Calibration is an ongoing requirement to maintain Certification and is of the utmost importance in ensuring the accuracy and effective functioning of the NavAids. “The calibration flights are serving their purpose in helping us to achieve a world class facility for St Helena. In operating the Airport, safety and security will always be our primary concern.” Further details on the second calibration flight will follow in due course. |
St Helena is just a very isolated village and thus will never have mass tourism or much in the way of scheduled service.
Tourism will have to be very expensive to make it viable so rich people who want to see where Napolean died or go somewhere none of their friends have been will be the target. I don't see them wanting to spend 5 hours ina ancient 733 configured for SAF internals . But this sort of tourist is also the market sector covered by the specialised hi value hi cost organised 'world tours' where you visit eight or nine diverse and special locations over two or three weeks on a dedicated plane. The mighty 75 is a favourite for this kind of trip and they it seems can operate safely out of SHL so I can certainly see opportunities for addressing this top end market as an interesting stop over for a couple of days on a bespoke trip. While I am well aware that Ascension is a military/spooky location and cannot be filed as an alternate it has I believe been used as such -Dl777 JNB-ATL so tis there if its really needed, Its a heck of a lot of money though to build any form of acceptable airfield for such a tiny tiny market PB |
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