Its Windy Up In Scotland
 

Loganair off the runway in SYY
 

Sky News reporting a Loganair/Flybe Saab 340 has departed the runway
at Stornoway, looks like landing gear has also collapsed.

Metar egpo 020820z 27022g33kt 9999 vcsh few015cb sct040 05/01
q1008=

Here's a little idle devil's advocacy aimed at demonstrating that a Saab 340 take off would have been within limitations for the Metar forecast time.
Rwy 36/18 at EGPO.
Max wind forecast: 270/22g33kt.
Rwy 36/18 max crosswind element as forecast: 22-33kt.
Rwy 36/18 length = 2,199.9m, width = 48.023 m.
Saab 340 max X wind limitations: Rwy width > 23m=35kt.

So, is it the case that rwy 24/06, with its reduced width, is not available for the Saab ?

cavortingcheetah, thanks for the data - any lower crosswind restrictions for wet runway?

No idea what runway was in use. Only an idle juggling with figures based on worst cross wind possibilities.
The following table illustrates the correlation between runway width and X wind for the Saab 340?


Maximum Crosswind Component


>23 m Rwy width= 35kts

23 m Rwy width= 25kts

<23 m Rwy width= 17kts

edit for fireflybob: I have no idea. Not rated on the 340 and so all submissions made without benefit of particular aircraft or even airfield experience.

Is the metar a forecast???

No, METAR = Meteorological Aerodrome Report

Here is TAF for period


FC 02/01/2015 04:57->
TAF EGPO 020457Z 0206/0215 25017KT 9999 FEW035
TEMPO 0206/0215 26020G30KT 7000 SHRA
PROB30 TEMPO 0206/0215 26030G43KT SHRAGS BKN014CB=

there is absolutely nothing unusual in that's wx for Stornaway.

In fact some might say its normal wx.

As you can see from

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...631_storn5.jpg

The sheep are still happily grazing. When its really windy they get blown across the field and get pinned up against the dykes.

And the wind sock is in one piece to boot.

Agree mad jock.

This report implies the event happened on take off:-

Four injured after plane blown off Stornoway runway

Apparently it did.

For reasons only the operator and crew will know just now.

Lets face its likely that the skipper has done hundreds if not thousands of departures in similar if not significantly worse conditions there BEB and SUM.

Can we just get one thinks straight: it's StornOway, not Stornaway.

Sorry its always been SYY for me or Lewis.

And that's my feeling as well Artic something else in addition to the wind.

Sorry for nit picking, it's just a bugbear of mine. That and Logan Air :E

Any further updates from today's incident? Not a Saab driver, but is there a point whereby nose wheel steering is reduced before the rudder becomes effective during the takeoff roll on the SF340? Been on them a lot and seen a lot of them land and depart and they seem VERY stable machines so I was very surprised to hear this runoff occurred during takeoff. It must be very rare.

Glad that all made it out with just a couple of minor injuries. I look forward to the tales of terror in tomorrow's Mail. Always good for a chuckle.

Extremely rare, good solid machine with years and years in those conditions and worse, no incidents.

Agreed. A good capable workhorse.

There have been problems in the past with the nose wheel on the SAAB 340 in windy conditions, think it was either a Business Air/bmi regional/commuter 340 that left the runway at Leeds on take off, should be in the CAA/AAIB files some where?

A very tough aircraft and a joy to handle in strong cross winds

Could this happen on take off?

Air Accidents Investigation: Saab-Scania SF340B, G-LGNE

Here is the link to the Leeds incident (from 1998)

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_501630.pdf

Thanks for the photo, I thought I knew the difference between a Saab 340 and a BN Islander. Canada's CBC news is showing an undamaged Islander with the news story. I "corrected" them.

AAIB have sent a team to SYY.

Let us wait for their report..........pontificating gets us no where.

Nobody seriously injured ~ the most important aspect of this event.

Mad_Jock I know its still very early in the new year, but this has the potential to be quote of the year!! :D

Its not a joke, thats what happens when its really windy.

Puts you off your landing when you see a sheep getting blown across a field at mins.

The wind stopped once in SYY - and everyone fell over!

What happened to this chap could have happened to any of us. I know I came close a few times. Very occasionally it blew so hard that the props on the Budgie (Dart engine) wouldn't stop turning after shutdown. Happy days...

Raison d'être
 

Come on now Parkfell, don't be boring. With 157 posts under your belt, you should know by now that, armed with a couple of grainy pictures, a met report and half a dozen pages of debate, any self-respecting Ppruner could tell you the root cause of any accident and who is to blame.:}

I thought we had all been pretty good so far. Helped i suspect by most of the posters relating and having experenced similar conditions in syy.

I have a lot of sympathy for the crew, as R6 states for a lot of us its only the grace of god that we dodged filling out the same paper work on occasion.

Working those islands changes you for the rest of your career. Months of 25G45 turns it into normal. Most strong wind warnings become comical.

I have to be honest my first thought was wondering if it was you, m_j. Glad to hear it wasn't.

The weather challenges are one of the things that keep operating in Scotland interesting.

no I haven't flown the Islands for years.

But still they have a place in my heart both the good CAVOK days with 60K + vis

And the utter vial days when your control runs are creaking and flying the approach is like an extended full and free check.

But I loved every minute flying over there. They people are great and as you say the flying is interesting and challenging.

To be honest its a huge testament to the skill and professionalism of the Logan Air pilots and others that operate there day in day out that incidents like this are so rare.

Intresting, if this had happened in Asia we would be on page 50 by now!
Anyone know the registration? Can't make it out on photos.
Best wishes to the crew ... there but for the grace of God.

It was G-LGNL according to Avherald

After those years I spent in Shetland,Mad Jock, it makes me laugh when I hear the news or ATIS getting into a fuss about about 25kt gusts. And as for those nearly useless 15 mph (!) windsocks commonly used here in the US, what a joke. I really wish they'd use 30kt socks.

If my memory still serves me right,i think I heard a story that they could have had S340 certificated up to 40kts crosswinds. But,flying demo flights at Malmö,the officialdom was having lunch right at the time when winds peaked for a while. Company test pilots reported no problems at 40plus. It is a Pilot`s airplane,very solid and responsive even at slower speeds. Delight to fly. -that said,if You can wear David Clarcks.

Added: we tried 55kts at sim,but there I didn`have it quite right and tended to loose the upwind main gear. My sim partner timed it better and he had no problems landing, -A simulator. Most problems with the landing gear we had, were with shimmy damper. But with destinations like Petrosavodsk no wonder. Those concrete block runways had me send warm thanks to engineers in every Takeoff. -This just to tell something of Saab,s landing gear as user`s point. So I agree with Arctic Circle that there is probably more in this incident than just crosswind. Piloting is always the first that the press likes to adhere to,but as most have told here,Saab is very nice to handle,even in demanding occasions,so I am looking forward to see technical reports in this. The nose gear steering system,is a bit of a kind with its plates,so better wait...

As good an aircraft as the Saab might be, this accident makes me wonder what kind of battering that these machines have taken over the years. Constant exposure to saline weather conditions and strong winds can't be good. Landing and taking off and in a 30kt+ wind on the odd occasion is one thing, but day in day out; well that's another.

Well the plane doesn't know its in wind.

Just ground speed is less when you rotate and touch down.

Do I take it Fair Weather Flyer is questioning the engineering ethos at Loganair? After all, airliners are subject to mandatory checks and tech log trails. Surely "saline" related conditions are spotted during heavy maintenance at worst?

Saab stop flying operations at 52kts.

Its Windy Up In Scotland
 

65 kts these days. Might need it this weekend.

Thanks AC for wx. I would consider as planning that 40 would be more or less steady,and chances are,that it will be anything between 25 and 55,so landing might be possible in about 10 percent of the time you can spend around there, -and still just by chance,legally. Operationally maybe,not that much of a problem,but so much of a percentage and unknowns that i would not even consider giving it a try. Sorry folks,but I won`t take You there right now. My limits are gone by the wind...