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-   -   LUTON - 7 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/496665-luton-7-a.html)

gilesdavies 28th May 2013 22:16


Some increases in flying from ZB next year.
Comparing June 2013 with June 2014, there is an increase of 14 flights per week - presumably one additional airframe to be based? The increase is less marked in July (+9).
Thats great news if the schedule remains the same and I will try to remain optimistic, but I am realist(!)...

The problem with Monarch for atleast for the last year or two is, I have noticed their timetables remain very fluid until about a month or two before their winter or summer timetables commence.

Take for example the culling of Munich only a month or two before the summer season.

There has also been lots of talk in the Monarch forum on here and other boards, how Monarch change times and frequencies after people have booked, they seem to have fair few disgruntled passengers because of this of this, who have booked flights to only find out the timings have changed or the flights they are booked on are cancelled.
(Not just talking about the LTN schedule.)

Monarch like to get their summer 2014 schedule out very early!

When you looked at the schedule, did you notice where the extra 14 flights a week were operating to?

pabely 29th May 2013 01:10


....says Luton is the fourth busiest for this type of movement in Europe, with 12,371 movements last year after Paris Le Bourget (24,412), Geneva Cointrin (17,824) and Nice Cote d'Azur (14,091).
Luton is not the only London gateway for such movements whereas these other cities have limited choice. I wonder if you added up LUT, FAB, STN, NHT, LCY, BIG, OXF you would see London is streets ahead...

LTNman 29th May 2013 06:10


Look fellow PPRuNers I have a dilema, which bus or coach to london is safe, I don't fancy being 'culled'! Rumours of Bus Wars at Luton airport escalating!
I prefer the train which is often the cheapest option at weekends. During the week it can still be the cheapest option if a group save ticket is used but generally for peak travel it is expensive.

easyBus= A very bad 1* rated service
Greenline= A 2 coach sollution and save £5 from this banned company
National Express = Rip off fares with the airport taking a slice of the ticket fare.

FR- 29th May 2013 07:12

easyJet crews have been selling tickets for national express, only to find out that these tickets are not valid on the new service, and only valid on the greenline. I always tell passengers to use the train, its fast than the bus.

fr-

Level bust 29th May 2013 09:25

Do Easyjet still sell train tickets on their flights?

WK622 29th May 2013 10:53

Passed through security yesterday at 5-15 am and the staff were friendly and very efficient, with virtually no queues. The green buttons on the `How was your experience today?' pads were taking a hammering. Domestic only so didn't have the face the Border faff - have things similarly improved with the time taken to cross or is it still the very long queue at peak periods?

compton3bravo 29th May 2013 16:37

A FEW JOTTINGS
 
Flew out today Wednesday arrived at 04.45 checked in with Monarch no queue at security - very friendly and in the departure lounge at 04.55. Terminal very busy but seemed to cope although still seems to be a slight lack of seats - how about a few opposite Pret A Manager or whatever it is called.
I was told by a very reliable source that on Saturday evening there was a total of 153 business aircraft on the ground at Luton - what recession!
More construction work taking place near the cargo apron so that a new Harrods hangar can be built next to the one already constructed.
Heard a rumour that the entertainment at half-time at the Champions League Final was to be the Central Band of the Royal Air Force playing a medley of famous British film scores but it turned out only to be a rumour!

pabely 30th May 2013 01:13

C3B - It is a new Signature hangar, not Harrords, please keep up :E

compton3bravo 30th May 2013 04:17

Oops sorry Pabely, thanks for correcting me. What I saw of the airport last week - very busy but seemed to be coping very well.

LTNman 30th May 2013 06:21

Actually it was neither. An embankment has been removed so that this area next to the Harrods hangar area can become a ground equipment parking area. Once that has been completed and the equipment moved work can start on the new hangar next to the cargo terminal.
I had a look last week and one of the 20ft sound blocking wooden fences had been removed from the new hangar site but that was it.

Falcon666 31st May 2013 10:59

Monarch S14
 
For those interested this is the S14 plan as it stands

Dalaman Daily from 5 wkly. Tue/Wed added
Faro. 6 wkly from 4 wkly. Mon/ Wed added
Gibraltar. 6 wkly from 5 wkly. Sat added
Alicante. 6 wkly from 5 wkly. Fri added
Lanzarote. 2 wkly from 1 wkly. Sun added
Palma. 5 wkly from 3 wkly. Tue / Fri added
Malaga. Daily from 4 wkly. Tue/Wed/ Thur added
Sharm el. 3 wkly from nil. Thur/Sat/Sun added

Rome , Bodrum , Mahon no change

Shame they couldn't keep Munich going for the lakes and mountain folk but back to 5 a/c based is good news

pabely 31st May 2013 13:14

5 based MON is great, I wonder if TOM will respond?

Buster the Bear 31st May 2013 21:16

TOM different market.

STN Ramp Rat 2nd Jun 2013 13:52

AENA preparing for London Luton airport takeover
 
AENA preparing for London Luton airport takeover -report | Reuters

LONDON, June 2 (Reuters) - Spanish airport operator AENA is planning to take over London Luton Airport from infrastructure group Abertis, Britain's Sunday Times newspaper reported.

AENA, which currently holds a 10 percent stake in the airport, has exercised its right to bid for Abertis' 90 percent holding, it said on Sunday, citing a story from infrastructure newswire Infranews.

A spokesman for AENA declined to comment on the report while Abertis could not be reached for immediate comment.

Under the terms of the ownership pact AENA has first refusal over Abertis' holding, giving it the right to make a bid before any other party, according to the newspaper.

It saw off a rival bid from Australian bank Macquarie, the newspaper reported.

Abertis raised the prospect of selling its airports division earlier this year to focus on toll roads on telecommunications.

London Luton, Britain's fifth largest airport by passenger numbers and home of FTSE 100 airline easyJet, is considered the "jewel" in its portfolio of 29 airports.

ericlday 2nd Jun 2013 14:50

AENA preparing for London Luton airport takeover
 
Is that why it has gone all quiet on the planning application ?
Will this lead to a more progressive management style ?
Await with interest the outcome.

LGS6753 2nd Jun 2013 17:36

This purported move raises a lot of questions.

Undoubtedly, AENA have relations with every airline that operates to its airports in Spain. As it's a Government-owned near-monopoly in Spain, that doesn't necessarily translate into 'good relations'.

Furthermore, Spain is bankrupt, so everything in its public sector is going to be starved of funds, especially overseas assets. Will the Spanish Government really stump up hundreds of millions of euros to a) purchase LTN and b) carry out the improvements it requires to develop further?

Dannyboy39 2nd Jun 2013 17:42

c) They can't own the airport anyway, they just operate the lease.

Can't see what's in this for Aena.

I also see LBC are "struggling" financially. Obviously £30m in airport fees isn't enough to balance the books. Maybe they could flog the airport and bring in another £1/2bn?

Powerjet1 2nd Jun 2013 18:21

The FT mention that Abertis are looking for 400m euros to purchase the remaining 90% of the 30 year concession. A figure that AENA has yet to agree.

Buster the Bear 2nd Jun 2013 19:31

About Aena - GRUPO AENA - Aena.es - Spanish airports and airspace

Pretty impressive company, not too sure how they have been hit by the financial meltdown in Espania?

400m Euros for 30 years, plus the investment required. Seems cheap compared to MAG purchase price of Stansted!

LTNman 2nd Jun 2013 19:39

Didn't they have a falling out with Ryanair because they made Ryanair use air bridges and charged them for the use when Ryanair just wanted steps.

gilesdavies 2nd Jun 2013 22:15

Does Luton Borough Council have any say in who the new leaseholders will be for the airport?!

It seems strange to me, that the council can only choose initially who the leaseholders are for the airport, and all it takes is for the current leaseholder during their 20-30 year lease to sell it to whoever they like. I would have thought the council would have some clause in the lease stating if this situation occurs they have some sort of say in who the lease is sold to or the right to cancel it.

As the council will have agreed the original lease, based upon what those operators wanted to do with the airport and their future plans. If you sell on the lease, there is nothing stopping the new operators doing something completely different with the plans and something that LBC might be against and prevented an original tender from obtaining the lease.

I am also disappointed the council are not using this opportunity to possibly re-negotiate the lease of the airport, for a new 30 year period. This could then be used to secure future upgrades to the airport.

I am going to be my usual pessimistic self :uhoh: and predict any future operator is likely to only make minimal upgrades to the airport in the short period they will have the airport for. To just maximise returns and profit on any purchase they make.

I think I would prefer to see the Australian bid from Macquarie Bank takeover the airport. Investment Banks and Private Funds usually have a track record in pumping money into businesses they buy and turning them around. This could however have a negative effect on airlines if charges were to increase, but on the other hand if facilities and infrastructure improved, that could go in the airlines favour.

LTNman 3rd Jun 2013 06:04

I have heard a rumour that Arriva who own the Greenline service are to stop all local bus services to the airport from July. Services affected include the
321 from Harpenden, St Albans and Watford
61 from Tring and Aylesbury
100 and 102 from Hitchin and Stevenage.

The routes will still run but just not go to the airport.

ericlday 3rd Jun 2013 10:39

AENA - Update
 
(Reuters) - Barcelona-based infrastructure firm Abertis is in talks with Spanish airport operator AENA over the sale of its 90 percent stake in London Luton Airport, a company spokesman said on Monday.

Media reports over the weekend said AENA, which currently holds a 10 percent stake in Luton, had exercised its right to bid for Abertis's holding.

On Monday, Spanish newspaper Expansion said AENA was teaming up with French insurer AXA to bid for Luton, valued at more than 400 million euros ($518 million).

AENA declined to comment.

LGS6753 3rd Jun 2013 16:01

Buster -


Pretty impressive company, not too sure how they have been hit by the financial meltdown in Espania?
The point is that they are not a private company - they are an arm of the Spanish Government. And it's the Spanish Government that's broke!

Giles -


Does Luton Borough Council have any say in who the new leaseholders will be for the airport?!
Yes - the Airport has agreed the current arrangements which gave AENA the 'first refusal' to buy the Abertis stake. I imagine the agreement was tripartite between London Luton Airport Ltd (the Council-owned company that owns the airport freehold), Abertis (90% shareholder) and AENA (10% shareholder).

Eric quotes:


Spanish newspaper Expansion said AENA was teaming up with French insurer AXA to bid for Luton
That at least is a ray of light; although AXA is French, it is a 50bn Euro public corporation. If they are stumping up some serious cash, I expect they will be looking for either a stake, or nominated directors, or other influence over management. The French have a pretty good record of long-term thinking when it comes to infrastructure (TGV, decent roads & airports, etc).

davidjohnson6 3rd Jun 2013 17:01

AENA and AXA are not bidding for Luton airport because of long term thinking to make it a fantastic airport. They are bidding to make a long term profit. Spanish Govt has no particular interest in spending Spanish taxpayers' money to improve the lives of Brits in the UK.

Buster the Bear 3rd Jun 2013 17:45

AENA know how to run airports - makes a change for Luton eh!

Very slowly AENA is being unwound, a UK company making inroads in air traffic control provision after the Spanish Government put a small part of AENA's network out to tender. FerroNATS

You could argue that part of MAG is owned by the UK, 10 Manchester councils which makes up 64.5% of the consortium.

I wondered where the 'cash' was coming from AXA certainly have that.

For all investments there are rewards in terms of profit. Whilst HM Govt deliberates over a new Heathrow or more runways, demand to access the London area by air will continue.

Now I wonder with LBC being in a financial muddle, would they be willing to sell, but that would mean the airport going on the market, this way, AENA gain access to the London market via the backdoor?

As for the bus situation, AENA know how to run airports - makes a change for Luton eh!

LTNman 3rd Jun 2013 17:45

Does the council still have a break out clause or has that been signed away with the extra two years put on the existing lease?

Could the council buy back the lease and then sell it at no cost to their preferred bidder?

Would AENA be bound to the councils wish to increase passenger numbers as per the existing plan seeing that they were already part of the old operating company?

Buster the Bear 3rd Jun 2013 18:04

Reports that Macquarie were rather keen on the concession as well!

AENA hold 10% of the consortium that already operates Luton, so my previous comments were not quite correct (AENA know how to run airports - makes a change for Luton eh!).

Interesting times ahead and something has to be done to combat the future development MAG plan for Stansted.

compton3bravo 3rd Jun 2013 18:19

What I have witnessed of the Spanish airports I have used is that AENA run airports in the interests of the passenger! - shock - horror - that will be something new for Luton passengers to get used too.
May I also point out that the Spanish Government is not broke- it is in a bit of a parlous state - a bit like the UK Government!

LGS6753 3rd Jun 2013 18:25

C3B -

Without getting in to a debate about advanced economics, I think we can agree that the Spanish Government doesn't have a single peseta to spare for LTN!

If AXA provide the cash, and AENA the experience, we could be on to a winner. Let's hope it's not the other way round!

pabely 3rd Jun 2013 22:03

South Stands appear to be used for overflow B-Jets again this weekend, from Signature? Is business that good??

davidjohnson6 4th Jun 2013 01:05

People - I'm not sure my previous message was sufficiently clear.
AENA is a Spanish public body that is part of the Spanish Govt and whose sole duty is towards the Spanish Govt. If the prime minister of Spain tells AENA to raise the landing fees at Spanish airports and pass some of the extra cash to the Govt, then AENA will likely do so (a refusal will likely mean the head of AENA needs to find a new job quickly).

AENA doesn't give a toss what Luton council wants or says. Anything AENA does outside Spanish territory is purely to make money from airport management fees. AENA know that Heathrow and Gatwick are both full and that Luton has no more space for overnighting aircraft - i.e. demand for access to Luton far exceeds supply. Heathrow, Gatwick and City are full at peak times. Typically in a free market when demand exceeds supply, the price of the product (e.g. landing fees) will increase until demand reduces slightly to equal supply.

If AENA ends up running Luton, they will manage it in a way to maximise the profit - i.e. maximum fees, minimum expenditure on the airport. Spanish Govt owned AENA does not care about whether something is in the interests of a passenger who is not resident in Spain and does not have a vote in Spanish elections.

AXA is investing money from places like pension funds and insurance premiums into Luton. AXA cares only about good stable long term returns for the money it invests. If the returns AXA provides are below average, the trustees of a pension fund are likely to fire AXA and replace them with a different money manager. AXA is not interested in the interests of Luton's passengers.

There's plenty good about a private company running airport infrastructure when there is genuine competition with other nearby airports - much benefit has come from the UK's utilities and infrastructure being privatised and becoming much more efficient instead of the bloated inefficient monsters they were while in Govt hands.

Maybe replacing the management by Abertis with that of AENA / AXA will bring renewed vigour and efficiency. It will not however turn Luton into a charity.

LTNman 4th Jun 2013 06:19


If AENA ends up running Luton, they will manage it in a way to maximise the profit - i.e. maximum fees, minimum expenditure on the airport
That could be said for any company running Luton or any airport for that matter.

Nothing really wrong in my eyes with the Spanish state owning AENA. EDF is owned by the French state but it won't stop them building Britain's new nuclear stations if the price is right.

I would think that the limited company running Luton and not the owners of that limited company will borrow the money on the open market to grow the airport. That money won't be coming from the Spanish government.

OLNEY 1 BRAVO 4th Jun 2013 11:01

South Stands & Biz Jets
 
Pabely - May and particularly June are always very busy months for Biz Jets so it's no surprise that the South Stands are being used for overflow parking. They have been used in previous years, but of course there is more space available this year.

Interesting thread on the Biz Jet Forum:
http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...itpicking.html

pabely 4th Jun 2013 13:26

Interesting O1B, but LTN still provides 24x7 which is a big plus. If AENA fully come in then lets hope things move forward on all fronts.

LTNman 4th Jun 2013 19:26

From the FT

Aena claims to be the world’s largest airport operator by passengers, with stakes in 69 airports. The Spanish government intends to sell a 49 per cent stake in the company by the end of 2013.

compton3bravo 5th Jun 2013 15:50

Any money AENA can make out of Luton will be gladly welcomed by the Spanish Government.
Sorry LGS6753 the Spanish Goverment will not accept pasetas - we use Euros now and have been for a number of years - please keep up!

gilesdavies 6th Jun 2013 22:48

Has the airport been busier than normal today with bizjets?

Apparently there is some big rich mans summit taking place at the Grove hotel near Watford for the next few days, called "Bilderberg"...

There will be fat cats, ermmm, no sorry I meant CEO's from many of the worlds largest businesses including Google, Goldman Sachs and financial leaders from around the world too attending.

pabely 7th Jun 2013 02:30

No doubt NHT will pick up some Gov movements as well.

LTNman 13th Jun 2013 06:53

So Easyjet does a deal with Stansted to increase passengers to 6 million. I hear it will not be good news for Southend but then it could well be bad news for Luton as well. So where is the Luton deal???


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