LIVERPOOL-3
 

I will start the ball rolling. Anyone like to predict where Liverpool will be in terms of passenger numbers in 5 and 10 years time.

I don't know enough about Liverpool..I wish them well though as it's a really nice airport to fly from..Almost as good as BLK:);)

Only flown from Liverpool once in the days just before smoking was banned. All I can remember was that the terminal was a health hazzard.

Why?..All the airport was short of IMO, was an airbridge..I can live with that.

Yes but the place was thick with cigarette smoke. Really bad advert for Liverpool in those days

LTNman, I can assure you that when I passed through LPL a couple of years ago they were adhering to the smoking ban.

Not the best experience on departure, but only because of the hour long queue for security. I understand they have since opened an improved security area, and if I find flights as cheap as those again I wouldnt hesitate to make the treck back there given those improvements.

This was in the days of easyjet's Luton - Liverpool service whenever that was. Nice terminal shame about the passengers.

I've only used LPL twice in the last few years. My experience about 3 years ago was so ghastly I didn't think I'd ever do it again. It was heaving with passengers, the access was poorly designed, security staff slow and unpleasant (even if you you gave way and paid the £3 'fast track' fee).

I used it last week as a flight from there was my best option and was pleasantly surprised, no crowds, no delays, even managed to get a reasonable breakfast although for what it was, it was overpriced. All round, not a bad airport.

I use it on average twice per month for the last 20 years. At the start it was just a handful of flights per day, very quiet, and hardly any passengers. Then came the expansion of numbers and building work. It would be fair to say they had their problems along the way. Not least security search area queues - about which I have complained to the airport directly in the past.

They've relocated and expanded the security search area which is now excellent. Apart from the morning peak I don't think anyone would wait more than a few minutes nowadays.

If you have a look on the airport website a number of retailers have offers - particularly catering :ok:

I don't mind LPL. It does the job pretty efficiently and Liverpool has done well to develop the airport the way it has. The other half doesn't like it however as he, like alot of less frequent travellers, prefers the 'buzz' of a bigger airport.

Yes we too find it a great airport. The local Scouse staff are a joy, always a ready wit even at silly O Clock :ok:. Usually use the Easyjet service to Gibraltar and sometime Fue. Think they have canned this route for next summer, unless Easyjet83 can shed some light on it, but its not overcrowded, plenty of eateries and basically everything works.:ok:

Only fly in the ointment is last week the CEO gave an interview in which she seriously bigged up Manchester and indicated that she viewed that as their Northern hub...hmmm

Sorry, but this was not my experience when I passed through the airport at the May holiday weekend. The airport was very quiet, one may say dead, but it still took 40 mins plus to clear security. Only one scanner operational and no queue management. I have to say though that the security staff were exceptionally friendly.

Gibraltar ending in October due to Lack of Demand. Heard loads have not been as good as the other routes to GIB

Also sorry to break the bad news that from 4 November Ryanair also stopping Shannon. Riga also ending as well on the 5th but is staring from MAN.

Have used Liverpool a number of times over this year and have had no real issues other than normal wait at border control inbound - have had that at Man as well. Will use again but there appears to be a drop in services as has been noted so maybe LOCO bubble going down a little in recession. All my other flying is long haul from Man on SQ/EK currently, and I am surprised at how full Business class is on both airlines given the recession:ok:.

I think it's a little late to still be considering the LOCO market as a bubble/flash in the pan. FR and EZY have done particularly well financially over this period of downturn. I think the problem for LPL is that the low cost carriers are looking increasingly at MAN. MAN continues to attract legacy and low cost, something which it is becoming increasingly good at but alot of the growth there is currently from the low cost carriers.

There apparently has been a significant drop in passsenger numbers this year with both EasyJet and Ryanair cutting flights (Think Wizz Air have also cut a couple as well). Lets hope that when Jet2 move in (If its happening) Numbers will be Increasing again.

There was a scaremongering piece in the Liverpool Echo yesterday on page 3 titled 'Alarm at slum in passengers at LJLA'. Basically saying their on track to lose 700,000 pax this year.

Also had a quote at the bottom from LJLA spokesman saying "we are in active talks with several new airlines regarding potential new routes for next year". Hopefully someone comes in and quick because the rate at which RYR and EZY are pulling routes is scary.

Easyflyer my comment on LOCO based on the fact how many A/C are due to be laid up this winter. LPL may see some of these ( maybe 6 Ryanair). As for LOCO and Man, yes there are more basing there, but Man cost base is more expensive, and it is up setting some long term users of Man who may look at base,s elsewhere as a result. I think the general problem is not enough bums on seats for the plethora of routes which mushroomed over the last few years from variouse UK regional airports. They and the airports are clearly not all supportable in this climate. Hope LPL survives though would have doubts about their sister airport Doncaster.

I gather the Canadians are currently focusing on maximizing revenue per passenger, according to members of FoLa. I dont think its a question of whether the place will survive, more of securing a sustainable operation. It has been hinted at that MAG and LBA are making unbeatable offers to new carriers.

Mr Mac
 

What factual evidence do you have of this?

No doubt about it. Yes, there has been a decline in passengers recently but they will bounce back I'm sure.

Ryanair to resume there Liverpool-Oslo Rygge service form 9 November. Will operate at weekends again and Oslo Trop showing as 4 weekly for winter.

From what I have heard, legacy and low cost are co-existing better than ever anticipated. Sure, in sure low cost has taken pax away from legacy but whilst the loco's grow their market at MAN, the legacy carriers are growing their feed.

Total international traffic in the last 3 months at LPL & MAN combined is down 2.1% vs 2011. Rest of the UK is down 0.2%.

Until the economy improves and / or APD is lowered for regional airports, there's not much hope of traffic levels in and out of the North West growing massively.

Instead weaker operators will go (bmi baby) or downsize (Thomas Cook) and stronger carriers will use their leverage to shift capacity to which ever airport gives them the best deal or where they can exert pressure on weaker operators.

Nice positive post TSR2...All airports are struggling at the moment, and pax are down.

When people have more money in there pockets and are sure of their jobs..There will be a bounce once people are sure of their jobs, and have more cash to spend on flight..

I found Liverpool good to use..It did not happen to me, but some complain about queues at security..Liverpool may want to address that, as queues can be annoying.

Like the fast bag drop at BLK, that is now the slow bag drop - because lots more use that, than check in at the airport.

i used liverpool quite frequently,but have started to use east midlands for ryanair flights.about the same travelling time,but find east midlands better for parking and a much better experience in the terminal.it's tough for the regional airports which are so dependant on lo cost operators as the customers,like me,will switch to where we get the best deal and experience.

This matters..That and the fact that the carousel is hardly any distance from security, is why I use BLK when they have destinations that suits my needs.
However both Manchester and Liverpool are not as good parking, but for me Liverpool gets the nod over Man, simply because the terminal is easy to use..More important using jet2 at MAN T1..I find flying back into MAN early morning a nightmare..Flying out of MAN is easy enough..twice I have had long walks after landing at MAN in the wee hours

Liverpool is easy, inbound and outbound..

I was in Chester today and I saw some aircraft coming in, but one of them strangely enough was a Transavia. Does anyone know why it was there cause I do know Transavia dont fly to Liverpool. Believe it was from Amsterdam.

It departed to Oslo. Believed to be something to do with "Tall Ships."

TSR2
Spotty M managment have visited a number of times recently as well as another charter operator not to mention the Jet 2 routes which were going to occur but got pulled. I do beleive Liverpool will survive but cost base will be critical and Canadians parent does not seem to be intrested (Vancouver has also got problems apparantly). This deal was put together approx 2008 and the world has changed since then as we all know, so do the Canadians still have the appetite for it going forward. :suspect:

Mr Mac
 

I was just curious to know what factual evidence you have in support of your assertion that the MAN cost base is upsetting some long time users of MAN.

Mr Mac, are you sure it wasn't OLT Express who pulled away last minute and not Jet2? I'm pretty sure Jet2 historically announce new bases early-mid September..

As for Spotty M, as I posted earlier, according to members of FoLa Vantage have highlighted that LBA and MAG are 'paying airlines to fly from them, and are cynical of the longevity of such a setup'.. I would suggest that with Monarch having announced a base at LBA then that may have been one of those airlines directly refered to.

I dont believe for a minute that LBA or MAN would pay an airline to fly from them, with MAN supposidly having a policy of no less than £3 per passenger levied on the airlines. What it may be is favourable subsidies for marketing and such, something I understand is one of the most expensive aspects of airlines launching new routes.

With Peel Holdings retaining ownership of much of the land at DSA (same at LPL?) then I suppose there is little scope for alternative revenue sources available to Peel Airports. Therefore the days of the 'Peel Deal' over?

Yes. I thought Jet2 just delayed the announcement.

The press have already started preparing the public for the worst, all in preparation for an imminent Wizz announcement....

Has anyone got a source that Jet2 is making Liverpool a base?. I just wonder where this came from...I have googled and can't find any links to LS going Liverpool.

Ernest, LJLA laid down impossible conditions to Jet2 to protect the EasyJet agreement and their routes.

Ironically, the "agreement" between LJLA and EasyJet seems to have been the one thing that got in the way of LJLA's only real hope of expansion; Jet2.

One has to wonder whether the Vancouver boys were fully appraised of all contractual agreements before they signed on the dotted line, though being Peel, nothing would surprise me.

A few people have alot of egg on their faces currently, and there's worse to come...

That Wizz are going to leave LPL for MAN? Wizz setting up at MAN has been rumoured for ages now. Would be a blow for LPL but not a disaster with LS posibly waiting in the winds, interesting times ahead on the Mersey

If clauses are in place to protect an incumbent's routes from a newcomer, there isn't much scope for expansion at LPL other than from RYR AND EZY.

At the moment that might be best for Liverpool..Further expansion would be better when the economy picks up..

LS would tread on EAZY's toes, they did it with Monarch with the AGP route in 2006.
It's a difficult one this 160to4DME ..LS has expanded at BLK from 2013 with Dalaman, Ibiza and Lanzarote..

I would be a bit worried at the moment is Easy based an a/c at BLK, in case they flew some of the same sunshine routes as LS.

I take your point though, Liverpool are reliant on just EAZY and FR..Not room for other airlines if they are being protected.

Lets clear a few things up:

1. The press conference thing in July was NOT Jet2, it was OLT express and was cancelled because of their own financial difficulties.

2. I very much doubt that anyone except those who need to know will know much about the contract between easyJet and LPL, I also doubt that easyJet get protection on routes because Ryanair also serve a large amount of their routes.

3. easyJet can't pull out of Liverpool, and their based aircraft can't fall below 7.

4. Wizz into Manchester is just a rumour, I doubt they would do it at LPL's expense, the market is huge.

I don't think that Jet2 coming into Liverpool would have a negative effect, I think it would be more likely to kickstart a "route race" with the others (especially Ryanair and probably easyJet) expanding to get a bigger slice of the cake.
I'm pretty sure Jet2 will announce Liverpool soon. As someone else said Jet2 don't announce bases in July! We will have to wait and see...

EZYLPL dont count your chickens. Just see what happens. The reason 16to4DME offered re. jet2 sounds plausible.

I think your sources of information are questionable if they are who I think they are.