Great to hear that Alastair Campbell and Blair are back in work, and found a well suited home.

I never worked for the Spotty M but did work for Airtours International in the early days of ETOPS when Monarch did our training. I remember a damned good British airline with very high operating standards.

Very glad to hear that have a secure future.

MonarchOrBust...the 787s were very late in being delivered. Remember that Monarch ordered for delivery in 2010 and cancelled the order at the end of 2011. The 737 orders weren't until Oct 2014...just a few facts amongst the bullsh*t :=

So you are saying that a nearly two year delay in the delivery of your order doesn't earn you some financial penalty/goodwill from the manufacturer? :rolleyes:

Thomson got some upgraded seats in the PE cabin, which they later removed because of the numerous complaints about them ;)

More fool them then ...However I find that very hard to believe.

Well next time it might be an idea to get the negotiating team to put penalty clauses in the contract if your jets are gonna be two years late.

Given that some seem to consider monarch a basket case , Whats the view on the fact (if its true ) that a hugely successful group such as HNA are willing to invest in them ?

Whats in it for them ? Im no expert on the aviation business so forgive me if im missing the obvious.

I don't think it's fundamentally a basket case - it's a £40m ebitda business, with wrong capital structure and woefully managed as the last few weeks have shown.

Seems small fry for a huge outfit like HNA to get involved in really could they use monarch as part of some grander plan?

they're still waiting for the money to turn up ..........

FANS has got it right....

Bringantee

The investor is supposedly the Chinese said the previous Monarch CEO on TV the other day so probably is the HNA group.

Like you I am at a loss to think why HNA would want to invest in an airline abroad with just 30 short haul planes which has had 3 bail outs in less than 3 years.

If the announcement is that they are buying the planes and carrying on the Monarch model, then how does this turn out well.

They are just throwing money at exactly the same business model that has required 3 bailouts in less than 3 years.

We also have toalso factor in Jet 2. From next spring they bring 4 based planes to BHX and 6 to Stansted. That will eat further into the Monarch flights to many Med destinations in these areas for the first time.

So even more challenging.

I am hoping we can move out of this Stepford Wives weirdness and see some realism from the airline and investors.

Surely there will have to be a big change..a merger/ buy out otherwise what has changed its the same business model, and in 12 months time they will probably have the begging bowl out for yet another bail out.

Is this scenario not similar to Ehihad investing heavily in Air Berlin.That has failed so badly LH have had to step in and drastic cuts are planned for Air Berlin.

If anyone on here can explain how the likely current plan to buy more planes and carry on with the same business model if that is the plan,is going to work.

With the added issues of rising fuel and Jet 2 stepping into there markets far more in Birmingham and SE is going to transform Monarch fortunes please explain ?

If it is the HNA Group, expect changes to the Monarch business model. I'm not sure why some here keep banging on about what the investors see in Monarch. They obviously see some potential and perhaps expansion opportunity that most here have no clue about. Sadly it doesn't stop some folk mouthing off like they know stuff when in reality they don't!

I have good connections at Monarch but don't work there. The previous Swiss Italian owners were very shrewd business people. They were not billionaires for nothing and played the system to their advantage. I don't think they really cared about Monarch, it served a purpose which run its course by 2014. Greybull were never long term investors and will almost certainly make a profit on their "£125 million" cash injection. There have been problems with certain Monarch management decisions but that applies to many companies in the UK. Not excusing it but it happens. I really do think there'll be changes to the modus operandi of the company. Time will reveal all.

I think monarchs a great airline and i wish them the very best , However my question was really what plans HNA may have for them , Maybe as they already own most of SR technics and other maintenance outfits the engineering side must be attractive as its very highly regarded and profitable i believe, so you can see oppotunities there to expand the business, but what about the flying side of things ?

One thing invaluable to MON will be the goodwill value of the brand. Ok its had some negative press the last few weeks but its recognised all over England and has a presence north to south. With the right management and strategy it will flourish. Its just a shame greybull haven't got a clue. MON has a huge amount of loyal customers that will stick with them as long as they exist, hence why the goodwill value of the brand will be so high

Very true they do have very loyal customer base who are no doubt very concerned they to start flying with the riff raff on jet 2 !

Brighter are you talking about J2 from personal experience:rolleyes:

Sadly yes flown with them twice and both times had the misfotune to be seated in close proximity to large drunken groups of pikeys ...Im sure monarch also has problems with louts but ive never personally encountered that sort of behavour with them

brigante
you do seem to have a downer on jet2 and its passenger, but there was i thinking jet2s
policy re rowdy and drunken pax was very good

Sorry, There is nothing wrong with jet 2 or its staff, They dont want these scumbags flying with them anymore than anyone else does

Back to monarch...

You started it, Brigantee.

I suggest you start doing some research on the competition - Monarch management could learn some lessons from Jet2.

In respect of problem passengers I can assure you that all UK airlines suffer from certain individuals - awareness is high of Jet2 on this subject because they are actually trying to do something about it.

As for KyleRBs comment about the Mantegazzo's being 'very shrewd business people' - all I can say is

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Cuillin Hills

Not sure what your point is re Monarch's previous owners. I've never been a pax with Jet2 but I've heard their management team is very good.

Brigantee

I would expect Monarch to expand and diversify their flying schedule.

Sorry, Kyle RB. - I'll make things a bit clearer.

As owners they were diabolical - particularly in respect of the quality of various managing directors they bestowed on the company. This was either deliberate or incompetence.

They walked away from their responsibilities in respect of their pension obligations. Many loyal employees totally stuffed and out of pocket big time.

I don't think you will find many employees of Monarch, past or present, who will disagree with me.

A bit clearer now?

Cuillin Hills

We are on the same page! I totally agree with you and my suspicion is it was deliberate as opposed to incompetent. Losses and taxes come to mind and one or two other things! The family ran it for their own needs and never cared about Monarch or it's employees.

Well if they have got any sense they will announce something positive ASAP this uncertainty must be hitting bookings dreadfully

First thing that comes to my mind when describing the previous owners is that they basically stole my and many other Monarch employee's pensions. Shrewd is one way of putting it but I think many a Monarch employee may put it in stronger terms....

Quite agree Alloy.

It's a national disgrace that ANYONE can mess about with your pension.

Every persons pension should be ring fenced and untouchable, the new government should be looking at ways to ensure it can never happen again in the future. Did we learn nothing from the Mirror Group debacle.

IMHO it's tantamount to theft.

Sorry for thread drift.

Considering the Monarch Pension fund owns ten percent of the airline, at a minimum that will be diluted with new shareholder investment.

Well if they have got any sense they will announce something positive ASAP this uncertainty must be hitting bookings dreadfully

You can only announce something when you have it

On current form Monarch will break the announcement on the 12th day with 20 mins to go before the deadline expires.:ouch:

Surely they wont repeat that mistake again and i guess the CAA must have been pretty confident the funding /investment is there in order to grant a extension after all that had happened

Who actually picks up the tab for the "rescue" flights if the company involved carries on trading ?

I guess ATOL? So in essance holiday-makers who are daft enough to pay above the odds for a "protected" tacky package holiday.

Bit of an over generalisation there. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have benefitted from such protection in the past, and many who didn't have it because they made their own holiday and ended up stuck.

Let's all hope for some positive news with regard to the intended investment sooner rather than later, I'm sure the CAA are fed up with late night last minute negotiations.

At least someone knows (along with the FT, but unlike the rest of the press) who owns the other 10%.

Could someone tell me who made these 3 "bail outs" in that timescale"? "Bail out" in that context implies that one or more in the sequence has lost money.

Previous owners (name beginning with the "M" on the tails) put some money in in 2014 but ended up selling the business as a going concern minus several hundred million in pension deficit. Some would say that was a result for them (hugely reducing their liabilities) i.e. the investor has profited and what was their airline keeps going. There's absolutely nothing to stop them buying it back later.

Greybull, being shrewd investors, saw an opportunity and put in a sum in 2014 and if they were to sell all of their share (or a portion) now they would realise a profit, Monarch having been in profit last year and this, with a world-class EBITDA. So again the investor has profited.

There seems to be an assumption that smaller airlines cannot make a profit, but they can if their costs are in line with their competitors, as Monarch's very much now are.

IF a foreign investor wanted to invest in European aviation post Brexit, why not buy an airline that has passed the test of being able to adapt to market conditions and be competitive with the likes of FR and easy? A company's main asset is its people, and by all accounts the Monarch Group's people are its greatest asset, so interest from investors outside the EU in a profitable airline in the current post-Brexit situation to me seems inevitable.

I would not like to see Monarch go to the wall, however if anyone thinks that great people can save an airline, then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. You can do the best you can but if the boys at the top think differently then all is in vain. Just like the amazing people at Midland, myself included were to find out. I got out before the Lufthansa takeover. Someone posted earlier that Monarch were well known in England and just an opinion but England is not the UK. As I said before, I would never consider booking with them and certainly not now, but good luck to them mostly the employees.

I dont think anyone said great people alone could save a business, However at the end of the day the staff are very often what sets a company apart and having a onside driven workforce is a great asset especially in aviation

Didn't Midland choose monarch engineering to look after their 330 long haul operation DC9? .....

Yes Midland did have Monarch at Manchester. I fail to see however, any relevance an engineering contract from quite a few years ago has anything to do with their current predicament now.

Just found it interesting midland who had of course a main engineering base at manchester chose to entrust the task of maintaining their flagship long haul operation to monarch engineers ...