|
Leaked 12 months Ago
I was told this was in the pipe works 12 Months ago from a pretty good source within QANTAS. I didn't believe them but it sounds like its all falling into place for the big wigs at QANTAS, they want the airline to go arse up and the unions who thought they had a handfull of aces are in fact playing with a handfull of Jokers, playing right into the QANTAS hierachy hands. Jetstar are to take over apparantly with the 787 internationally leaving the A380 to cover the Eastern Seaboard to LA. Be interesting to see if this happens as my source has been correct so far. It's a shame really, I really love the iconic brand. When your overseas and it's time to return home after a few weeks away, nothing beats walking down the terminal stopping at the gate to see that big white jet with the red tail and the white kangaroo, knowing your heading home. How do we save our Airline? Because lets face it, it is our airline, Australia's airline......or is it????
|
12 months?
would think that ASIC would be rather interested in a proposal to wreak havoc on the share price of a publicly traded company... ? Additionally, a preplanned action that materially affects the trading position of the company planned 12 months before the act, that is then conducted the day after the AGM without advice to the shareholders....
|
Seems they waited until HM the Queen left, but some of the Commonwealth leaders and ministers have been 'caught' I believe.
Commonwealth leaders stranded by Qantas grounding - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) |
It's obviously not a sensible strategy otherwise Willie Walsh would have used it in the cabin crew dispute at BA.
|
None of the major cable news channels have mentioned that c:mad:t Joyces 71%
pay rise . I hope the unions put that information out to the world pretty damn quick, that should sink the "offshore/ outsourcing cost cutting is necessary to save Qantas " arguement. |
Good luck to all the staff on this one, how many times have we all heard the management speak that they have to pay "top dollar" to obtain the idiots who run these companies into the ground.
Then when it comes to the staff pay "Oh no we cannot afford more that X%" so as to appease the shareholders and allow management to award themselves 71% pay awards. |
So the Qantas management have chosen to leave many thousands of customers deep in the poo?
That'll work out well. |
BA offering rebook concesiions until 31st October.
There you have it then. Three day pissing contest. Dinosaurs. |
The Qantas media machine is attempting to blame the unions.
However, basied on a few non-aviation forums I visit, the reaction from the SLF public is not buying it and most comments are anti-management and pro union. ...a relatively small sample though. |
Like it or not airlines are a price sensitive commodity and commodities are traded, its all about money . Win or lose Joyce will get a fat pay cheque , Qantas will never be the same and a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. This is not a knee jerk reaction I feel to ground the airline , ducks are in a row . What I think would be interestrng is to see what large purchases and sales of airline shares have been made in the last month . Who is really pulling the strings ?
|
First time poster, infrequent outside observer. Please be gentle.
This is text I posted to another forum of relevance, mainly relevant to flyers, outlining Joyce's remuneration package, the union claims, and the QF issues. I'm reposting it here due it it's relevance to some of the points already raised. Some of the references are a little Australian, for example the waterfront dispute, but you can find out what these are about with a google search. And don't shoot me down for expressing a view about Joyce's suitability and results. This was yesterday, and my view has shifted a little since then in light of today's action. Further, any negative comments expressed are targeted at other unions and not necessarily AIPA, who I note has had reasonable demands and haven't been all that disruptive compared to others. Having just watched the AGM webcast and seen James Strong (Chairman, Remuneration Committee) lay this issue out in detail - the assertion that Joyce is getting "such an obscene increase" is without merit. The claims that he is getting a 71% pay rise are false, completely misrepresent the pay structure of the companies CEO, and re-affirms QF's decision to implement a salary package of which the majority is an at-risk component. For those not familiar with at-risk in the context of salary packages, this means that receipt of a designated amount of the salary is entirely dependant on achieving specific, measurable goals for corporate performance. Think of it as the executive version of commission based pay. Joyce's salary package for FY2010/11 is set at AUD 6.02m, of which AUD 2.04m is cash salary. Frankly, on the basis of the work he has done to date trying to strengthen the business and diversify to improve revenue, he's earned every cent. The remaining AUD 3.98m is only payable when Joyce has delivered against the medium and long term targets set as part of his remuneration package, which was voted on and approved at their AGM last year. I wasn't able to discern from the meeting if the allocation of ~1.7m shares (which form part of the Qantas Long Term Incentive Plan - LTIP) is reliant on the meeting of goals and forms part of the AUD 3.98m figure. Targets set for Joyce to earn that additional AUD 3.98m and the LTIP shares are pretty steep, and include a number of metrics rating QF's performance against the ASX/S&P Top 100, and the basket of globally listed airlines. A bit more info about this can be found in the notice of meeting for today's AGM (See pg. 4, col 2). Further, any award of shares to Joyce under the LTIP has to be approved by a vote of shareholders at an AGM. I'd happily wager that if institutional investors weren't happy with the CEO's performance, they'd be doing a lot more than voting done a LTIP motion at an AGM. Further, let's get back to why the airline hasn't reached agreement with the engineers, ground staff and pilots union. It's because these groups are wanting to impose conditions as part of an industrial relations agreement which enshrine old and redundant work practices, and could reasonably prevent the airline from seeking out lawful opportunities to grow the company which would in turn help deliver the job security they so desperately desire. And I've already covered the legal issues regarding this in another thread, looking at how such conditions could be a plain text breach of the Competition Act subject to the union meeting the criteria for the activities test which would enable this to be classified as restrictive conduct. Unions in this country have for at least the last 30yrs been heavily resistant to change. We just have to look at the waterfront disputes during the 90's and the significant work done by the previous Federal Government to break apart the stranglehold of the Building and Construction unions. I'm all for people getting job security, but what I won't, nor do I expect Qantas to stand for, is allowing these groups to hold it to ransom and acting for themselves rather than the greater good. The unions [and not necessarily the pilots whose demands seemed reasonable] need to grow up, and realise it's high time for their industrial practices to move on. |
The problem nowadays is that airlines are run by bean counters and not by aviation professionals. You get a CEO (appointed by a board made up of investors who know SFA about the business) who knows SFA about the airline business, who then gets rid of anybody who knows anything about the airline business in case they might show up his total lack of capability. Swiss Air anybody?
I'm glad I got out of that side of the business 35 years ago when airlines where still run by professionals who had moved up through the ranks and got years of practical experience before they took over the top job. It used to be said that Airline industry was one of the few that you could never learn from books, only by hand on experience. Nowadays it seems that you can become chief pilot 10 minutes after you get your PPL:bored: |
As a regular long haul passenger I tried booking a flight HGK to FRA this week did not even think of Qantas despite being an Australian expat and Emirates appalling timetable to Europe. Reading of the pay rise before this moment of total madness was bad enough as a business owner (not a CEO) what was he thinking of. I was also so shocked I looked at his employment history and then wondered how did he get this job? He complains that Australia is the end of the line and not an Asian hub when flights from the HK and Singapore airports can be booked another misleading statement. I’m glad I’m booked this month as flights will be premium price now. Maybe get a good discount for next months flight if I book Qantas.
If I was booked on a Qantas flight I would be a bit (words not allowed) never mind being in the queue at 3.00pm after a 3 hour journey to the airport a few hours packing and a week’s planning to be told sorry closed. I only hope that the staff were not abused, Interesting you could still book flights on the website tonight for tomorrow, you can get a nice hotel in HK for $350. Share price Monday morning is going to be interesting given his reported $10 million looks like he just lost his pay rise next two years. |
You can have heavily unionised under performing airlines or you can have cheap flights but not both, unfortunately the travelling public that pay our wages seem to prefer the latter.... When exactly did southwest last make a loss? |
Sorry to be really thick about this, but are Qantas really dumping crews at outstations ?? If so, my commiserations to all passengers and crew left in the lurch...
|
Can anyone outline the action taken so far and action planned by each of the groups involved?
This seems like a massive overreaction, not sure how the management can justify it to their customers. |
Well the CEO can blame it himself. If you give yourself a bonus of 2.000.000$ aus, of course you p*ss on your own people. And thats what you get.
What surprises me is that he doesn't seem to care too much about the airline. Willy Walsh turned it around after lots of struggle but can't recall he gave himself a fat bonus during the fights. What are the odds he gives back the bonus to start fresh with negotiations with the union? Problem remains with all CEOs, they milk their own airline/ company before they leave. And that I hate with a passion. Fire the guy! |
What is the 30 second announcement that the crews were doing that upset the management? Were they slamming on the airline?
|
What will happen to the poor crews stuck around the world. Wouldn't surprise me if AJ chucked them out of the hotels and told them to make their own way back to OZ!
|
For those not familiar with law:
Strikes and lockouts are just different sides of the same coin. Having both, secures the parity between unions and companies. Both parties start the dispute at their own risk, e.g.: - The union has to pay the wages out of their own cash box - The company will loose turnover and ultimately loose customers Having one side stripped of their rights, will lead to a dangerous imbalance. Take a look at the UK, after the "Iron Lady" manged to destroy the power of the trade unions for decades... |
The first being Joyce's 71% pay increase. If the company is battling, how can the "leader" justify any of his claims to move jobs off shore, restructure, etc. Some people are incentivised to grow top line figures etc, and like it or not, some are incentivised to cut out dead wood and the like, effectively shrinking revenues, staff numbers and losing money in the short term. Its not rocket science but many fail to understand his role is about business, not keeping Australians employed in a dying company. (Sorry of I am not supposed to post here but it does amaze me how many times this misunderstanding is raised in circumstances such as these.) |
What will happen to the poor crews stuck around the world. Wouldn't surprise me if AJ chucked them out of the hotels and told them to make their own way back to OZ! Sorry to be really thick about this, but are Qantas really dumping crews at outstations ?? If so, my commiserations to all passengers and crew left in the lurch... |
You can have heavily unionised under performing airlines or you can have cheap flights but not both, unfortunately the travelling public that pay our wages seem to prefer the latter.... |
"It's our airline"???
Yes, if you believe in socialism....not really if you believe in private property.
Alternatively would you like the Federal government (taxpayer) to buy all the outstanding (relatively cheap at the moment) shares? That has not worked, (socialism, or taxpayer bailouts) ever in history by the way. Actually, the owners of Qantas are the shareholders, so it is not really your airline, and they are the ones risking their savings for profit or loss. Would you like to buy some stock in the company? Feel free, you are only one computer click away from being an owner. Who did TWA or the Iconic Pan American world airways belong to? (and many others....ad infititum) Of course nowadays Obama would probably say the unions using GM & Chrysler as an example. Anyway, the future of Qantas & stakeholders (& shareholders)? I would go long on the stock, about late next week, could be the bottom. (I don't own any Shares, QAN.AX on NYE) as of today) When I was a youngster......I did not always believe that history would repeat itself....now that I am older, I am not so sure. "History does not always repeat, but it often rhymes" -Mark Twain |
Interesting read. although quite predictable in an aviation forum.
All parties will be harmed, including the public. The workers blame management and management blames the unionfied demands of the workers. But to blame a single person (joyce) is ridiculous, no matter what he is paid. I doubt that an outsider is going to show any sympathy towards the workers for the CEO pay arguments If I were the CEO I would volunteer to give up my salary for a year if that were to solve the dispute, it won't so live with the result and arbitrate on different issues. |
You can have heavily unionised under performing airlines or you can have cheap flights but not both, unfortunately the travelling public that pay our wages seem to prefer the latter.... Simple, insightful and oh so true. Pity so many people cannot get their head around this simple reality. |
Having "no dog" in this fight I would like to ask a couple of questions:
1. What was Joyce's salary before the 71% raise and what is it after he got a 71% raise? 2. Did he unilaterally grant himself the raise? 3. Did he unilaterally shut down the the airline? 4. When a Qantas worker gets their pay check who's bank account is that check dawn on, the unions or Qantas? |
So how will the CEO become a better CEO by giving himself 2 mills as a bonus??????????????
How will that help the company? Its ridiculous that one man can give himself a pay rise. If he can, why cant I? And he is not worth that either, to be added... He is to blame for all this mess Qantas is in. As I said before, Walsh didnt do any of these stupid things during negotiations, and he turned it around. |
For those of you thinking of bailing out, Emirates is aggressively hiring pilots and engineers if you're interested. Good luck to you all.
|
Yiking101, So how will the CEO become a better CEO by giving himself 2 mills as a bonus?????????????? What is a “mill” anyway? A. One mill is equal to one tenth of one penny or one 1/1000 of a dollar. |
What will happen to the poor crews stuck around the world. Wouldn't surprise me if AJ chucked them out of the hotels and told them to make their own way back to OZ! to save you the trouble of reading the entire thread reply number 3 by Skillsy states that staff overseas will not be locked out and will continue to be paid. The strike only grounded all aircraft out of Base, those overseas at the time returned then stopped, our hotel bills were met until the local management had had enough of us, then they sent us home on other carriers at their ( management ) expense, so the lads overseas were looked after until they got home, then they had to make a decision. Not supporting any argument, just saying what happened. A very sad day, no-one will "win" |
Qantas Australian controlled?
1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 shares 22.72% 2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91% 3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26% 4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17% Leigh Clifford and Alan Joyce have been planning the grounding for many months with key staff positioned world wide and block hotel bookings confirmed in Australia and world wide weeks ago. All this a day after the Qantas AGM where Joyce picked up 71% or $3 mill per annum pay increase. |
I don't care how bang up a job a CEO does. Making 5 million per year is just bullcrap. When did it become fashionable to pay a CEO a hundred or a thousand times more than your line employees?
What has happened is that management has siphoned profit out of a company for their own gain and have not allowed the line employee the chance to participate in the company's success. Industry after industry have seen this scenario play out. At some point there will be no one left to support all those service jobs that remain in our "first world" countries. We all can't work at Starbucks. |
malr
What is the 30 second announcement that the crews were doing that upset the management? Were they slamming on the airline? |
1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia 514,714,244 shares 22.72% 2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares 18.91% 3. National Nominees Limited 413,707,968 shares 18.26% 4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited 253,053,991 shares 11.17% |
WW, MOL, AJ.
Is this an Irish thing???? :confused: |
I don't care how bang up a job a CEO does. Making 5 million per year is just bullcrap. When did it become fashionable to pay a CEO a hundred or a thousand times more than your line employees? The line employed is hired to do a job. The CEO is hired to run the company. |
Into the ground, it seems, in this case.
Qantas' decision to ground the entire Qantas fleet is "holding a knife to the nation's throat" and CEO Alan Joyce has "gone mad", the Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) says. AIPA vice president Richard Woodward said the move was "premeditated, unnecessary and grossly irresponsible". "Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Captain Woodward said. Advertisement: Story continues below "No-one predicted this, because no one thought Alan Joyce was completely mad. "This is a stunning overreaction. It is straight-up blackmail. "I knew he was trying to kill Qantas, but I didn't know he wanted to do it this quickly. "This is a grave and serious situation and the board should move to sack Mr Joyce immediately. This is the saddest day of my 25 years with Qantas." He said AIPA's industrial action has been limited to making brief, positive in-flight announcements and wearing red ties. "In response to this, Mr Joyce has now locked out every pilot working for Qantas. This is nothing short of crazy behaviour," he said. "Mr Joyce is stranding thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe so he can engage in his mad game of one-upmanship. All so he can pursue his delusion that Qantas should be an Asian airline, instead of an Australian one. "We believe this action is unlawful and we are currently seeking legal advice. " He has locked out short-haul 737 pilots who aren't even involved in any action at all. Mr Woodward said this action would have been planned months in advance. "Let's be clear about this: Mr Joyce would have planned to strand thousands of Qantas passengers all across the globe months ago," he said. "To ground your entire fleet, when doing so is completely unnecessary, is not the act of a sane and reasonable person. "He has snatched his ill-deserved millions on Friday and grounded the airline on Saturday. |
1989
Does anyone remember 1989?Strong had his face on T.V. every time you turned on.A Labor Government was in power and two great airlines ceased to exist today.
P.S. the Government of the day called in the Airforce. |
@glhcarl Well, a base salary of 5 million is just ridiculous. However, if it's based on performance incentives and/or profit margins there's nothing wrong with it.
Given Qantas' financial performance I would wager a guess that this is simply a base salary (making it ridiculous). I can't say definitively though as I haven't found anything saying one way or the other. Grounding an entire airline though? Over a labor dispute? Sounds like 1870s union busting tactics... or Ryanair. |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 15:27. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.