Spanair is about to close
 

The former owners of Spaniar, the airline SAS (Scandinavian Airlines Systems), given by certain bankruptcy of the Catalan company and are covering their backs to the markets. SAS´s new president, Rick Gustafson, has initiated a series of meetings with analysts to prepare their shareholders and investors to the fall of Spanair. Scandinavians want to protect their action before the close of events.

In a meeting with investors held on Tuesday, Gustafson said that SAS provides all possible scenarios regarding its former subsidiary. Among them, more likely, according to his predictions, is that Spanair will not pay the 200 million still owed by the airline's fall Catalan.

Gustafson did not wait for questions from analysts who attended the presentation of the results of first quarter loss of SAS-reduced 48% to 41 million, and proactively decided to explain what the impact would cause maximum Spanair its outcome. The implosion of the airline Catalan generate minimal damage thanks to writting down was made of this risk, the analysts explained.

Forewarned

Thanks to this operation accounts, SAS Spanair exposure would be limited to between 22 and 33 million euros (200 to 300 million SEK). "If such an event will occur," said the president of SAS to reassure financial analysts, our security guarantee that would achieve the objectives of this year with a good margin. "

As its subsidiary, SAS owns 11% of Spanair, "the numbers do not come with the Scandinavian company. After breaking the sale negotiations with Lufthansa and the announcement of the government ordered the abandonment of the shareholders of SAS Scandinavian, northern European airline depends on itself to secure its future.

In this environment, its new chief executive does not want to scare stock. According to industry sources, Gustafson is putting the band before the wound on its industrial participation in Spanair. Scandinavians sit on the board of directors of the Catalan and as knowledgeable about the situation first hand would take containment measures in all areas, being the main financial headache remedy.

A million a day

Gustafson's concerns are based on a number: one million euros a day. This is the rate at which losses grow Spanair. Estimates calculated in the sector and sent the Catalan government, the airline chaired by Ferran Soriano would have lost in the first quarter, with fuel cheaper than now, 50 to 70 million.

On the other hand, the cost per seat-mile would be offered the highest in the industry with a projection of 0.6 euros, almost double the average. Spanair would be paying too much more expensive fuel than its competitors because of the impossibility of recruiting coverage with banks to help cushion the kerosene bill. Spanair had hired $ 105 per barrel fuel commitments are estimated to have accessed the Digital Economy.


Just for information, another Airline is going to close...:(

Whilst I found your post extremely difficult to read (I'm guessing English isn't your first language) the interim report to investors SAS Group Interim Report January-March 2011 | Cision Wire hardly says Spanair's failure is imminent. It's more about the financial situation of SAS.

From the press release

Stable financial position
It is also satisfying to be able to state that our financial position is stable. This is exemplified by the new bond loan that was issued in March 2011. At the end of March, our financial preparedness was SEK 11.9 billion, which is satisfactory and provides us, for example, with the scope to implement fleet renewal, which we have now begun. SAS has a remaining exposure in Spanair. In the event of Spanair going bankrupt, SAS’s total exposure is SEK 1.8 billion, but with a limited negative liquidity effect of MSEK 200-300. If such an event were to occur, this means that we would still meet our financial preparedness target with a good margin.

My interpretation:

1) We've just issued some new bonds and have loads of cash available to us - 11.9 Billion Swedish Krone to be exact. And we're going to begin renewing our fleet (hey Allegiant you want our last 26 MD-80s? one careful owner and all that...)

2) We still have a bit of liability if Spanair goes belly up but we've taken steps to limit this to 300 million SEK so about 2.5% of our total cash pile. DON'T WORRY - EVERYTHING'S FINE AT SAS

I think the posting was refering to Spanair.

If Spanair goes bust who will the Spanish Controllers have to vector infront of us on approach:rolleyes:?

Does that mean BA (being married to IB now) for once score a victory over LH (which has Spanair within Star) ? Amazing. Sure, considering FR and EZY fly to every village in Spain from pretty much every corner of Europe, not a surprise. JK completely disqualified themselves when managing to crash their DC-9 (ok, it was a MD-82, but similar old design).
Spanair Flight 5022 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We had a similar event at LUX, also with shocking neglect on the side of maintenance, management and crew, and many people still mistrust Luxair. New management had to rebuild Luxair from scratch, which Spanair hasn't done. So they would deserve to disappear into history. I hope LH has learnt the lesson and doesn't even think about starting a 'Lufthansa Espania' or 'Spanishwings'. Is LH codeshare a Kiss Of Death these days ? :O Surely considering those airline's independence.

Remember that SAS only own 20% of the company - so SAS' position doesn't have too much of an impact like it could have. It can sell the it's stakehold if it has issues, but I can't see too much reflection on Spanair really..?

While I am not flying for Spanair, I see on the flight I operate every day the huge impact that Spanish ATC has on my airline. In term of fuel, delays, sometimes causing change of crew or cancellation, the impact must be extremely heavy on an airline already in financial difficulty.
Thanks again to the Spanish ATC who contributed largely to this.

Spanair for catalan people are considerd as a national airline. The latest adv of Spanair is based on national spirits, proud of be catalan, slogan is "We belive in Barcelona" (in catalan language). This adv is everywhere in Barcelona city and airport.
For this national spirit the catalan government don't leave Spanair to close, probably also using illegal state aid.

I thought Vueling was the 'Catalan' airline. Spanair's base is Palma de Mallorca, which although the offical language is Catalan (or is it officially Mallorquin?), is not quite the same.

Vueling is the first airline of BCN, but is a sister of Iberia and Iberia is not loved in catalunya because is a Madrid based carrier and has close all flight from BCN.

IIRC Spanair relocated its HQ and registered office from Palma to Barcelona in 2009, and figuratively speaking wrapped itself pretty tightly in the Catalan flag.

Sorry for repeating my question:

The thread title is "Spanair is about to close"

Yet all I can find is an SAS press release saying that IF Spanair fails then it won't damage SAS. Can anyone actually substantiate Spanair's imminent demise?

Dear rareair,

"Spaniar is about to close" is my headline, that´s all.

According to SAS, Spanair is bankrupt
The new president of the Scandinavian Airline wants the market begins to assume the bankruptcy of the Catalan Company to protect its titles from the punishment of the shareholders. Spanair may be losing a million euros a day.

On the other hand, Spanair continues to pay salaries and suppliers thanks to the Generalitat of Catalonia & Banks, in other words, is the Catalan Government which prefers to cut the money in Health and Education in order to benefit Spanair which is not self-financing.

Health and Education in Catalonia is experiencing many financial cutbacks due to economic crisis. However, the Government would rather spend the money of citizens in Spanair which has a lot of problems.

In my opinion, Spanair is about to close, that´s my headline, unless they find investors ready to waste its money.

I´m sorry for the employees & citizens

B.R & Thanks.

NEWYEAR

Your thread title and posts are highly irresponsible.

If all you have to base your comments on are that SAS article, which you have put your own twist on, then would you mind desisting and even better remove the thread altogether.

Your ramblings could be taken the wrong way and there are peoples jobs and livelihoods at stake.

IB

What poster is showing is that the airline and a continuing major shareholder in Spanair is giving a clear indication that its investment is now worthless and it expects to lose money as a result of airline imploding.

It isn't nice to see this BUT do people wish to bury their head in the sand and say "How did this happen" rather than be aware that future may be imperilled.

It also has to raise questions to the regulator of Spanair regarding its operations with questions to its management.

This is a forum to debate and discuss aviation issues.

If the Moderators of this forum think they should delete my post and my opinion, they can do it. I will not delete my post because some fellow members do not like to read the truth, my deductions and opinions which are shared by many aviation professionals. Spanair is about to close if it can not find investors who squander their money, in my opinion.

What the report says is should, and they consider it a likely possibilty, the airline fails the effect on SAS has been mitigated. They do not say the airline is going to close.

What the OP objects to is the subsidies paid to the airline instead of it being spent on health care et al.

Given that the thread title is misleading to say the least.

As the original posting was in somewhat stilted English (I'm being polite here) I suspect it may be a machine translation. If this is the case, may we have the original article, then at least those of us who speak Spanish or Catalan could read it in its original version.

Catalan government expenditure on airlines and related infrastructure
 

As a Catalan resident taxpayer,with a passing non-professional interest in airline travel, the balance of expenditure on both Spanair and Ryanair over against other more necessary public services seems noteworthy.

In my opinion, whilst the massive direct subsidies to Ryanair are mentioned tangentially and infrequently in the local press, the monies to/ for Spanair do not generally even merit such brief coverage.

As for expenditure on infrastructure on the ground,the airport at Lleida is to all intents and purposes empty I believe.

I was in the (old) BCN terminal 2 last night and the place was deserted.

All these monies are justified as maintaining the vital tourist industry and its related jobs in a region where 20% is the unemployment figure but, as always, the issue of priorities and of attempting to use state funds to distort free (sic) markets does seem extremely complex.

Here are some relevant quotes;

Press Release, Source: SAS On Tuesday May 10, 2011.



Source Typically Spanish - Spain Business Jan 26, 2011

Note that the extra cash has been known about since January this year, it is not a new event and is being provided by some of the present shareholders in Spanair.

The quote from SAS of last week contains the only reference I can find in that press release regarding Spanair.

This will not be the first thread of this type on this forum regarding an airline's imminent demise, by someone who is an interested party, or works for one and/or has an axe to grind and wishes to see that airline fail.

I think the original article in Spanish is here (in a publication called "Economía Digital", hence the bizarre mistranslated reference to "accessed the digital economy" at the end of the machine-translated original posting...)

Having read the article, it does not to me indicate the imminent closure of Spanair. In essence it's a statement by SAS saying they will protect the interests of all parties. They can't continue to lose a million euros a day though so one does wonder where this will end, some kind of restructuring and trimming?

Precisely.

I have even taken a look at the notes to SAS's interim report of last week. There is no suggestion of the imminent failure of Spanair.

However, as SAS still own 10.9% of Spanair, under "Remaining Commitments", it occupies most space.

In addition, there is also a possible further payment expected from Lufthansa regarding SAS's former bmi shareholding an an ongoing exposure with bmi of £19million. There is a loan to Air Baltic due for repayment of US$7 million and one to Estonian Air of €7million.

Perhaps NEWYEAR will now let us have his take on bmi trading losses and probability of their going bust, as well as Air Baltic and Estonian Air?

As I said before, this thread by it's title and the originator's comment (based on an online magazine article) has no merit.

Please add a question mark on title on this thread, probably is more appropriate.

BigFrank,

Hailing as you do from my adopted home town you must be painfully aware of the Catalan Govts failure to keep to the promises ,made by its predecessors, to Ryanair. In contrast witness its determination to invest in/subsidise an airline that is a basket case. Even if I were Catalan (which I am not) I would prefer my taxes be spent subsidising Mickey Boy, who previously had 11 aircraft based in Girona, & operated around 89 flights a day.
All the investment in the airport & infrastructure, & the money that poured into Girona, has fizzled out, as Snr Mas has decided he would rather give the money to his latest "Darling" Air Catalunya aka Spanair.

Any straight thinking Catalan should be up in arms about that, not about subsidising Air O' Leary, considering how much dosh they have (& still are via BCN & REU ) bringing to the local economy.

Surely the Ctalans are not letting their regional fanaticism get in the way of the stuff even dearer to their heart. . . making money :D

Making money...diners...dosh
 

Whilst you, CPS, may see the rival claims of Ryanair and Spanair as chalk and cheese, I for one have more problems in seeing the difference.

The "promises" allegedly made by a previous government have no moral, legal or political purchase when that government loses an election. ¿Can the Spanish owners of BAA berate the current UK coalition government for failing to "keep the promise" of the previous New Labour administration to build a 3rd runway at LHR so long as EU pollution rules could be met?

As for Ryanair´s long term commitment to Catalonia, the very concept is surely as oxymoronic as military intelligence.

Methinks that The Leprechaun and his airline could give any known state airline, bank, finance house or public utility a run for their money in terms of filleting every last eurocent from the public purse whether of Éire, of Catalonia, of San Marino, of Andorra or of Lichtenstein. And of promptly turning up the next day after signing the agreement to ask for more whilst threatening to move locally based airplanes to Andorra la Vella if his outrageous blackmail is not submitted to. All this combined with failing to meet even the most basic of regulations relating to national rules on employment law, on social security payments and a very long etc.

For O´Leary to accuse Artur Mas and his government of welching on a deal is indeed to take the concept of the pot calling the kettle black into stratospheric orbit.

In this context, recent Spanish press reports to the effect that Ryanair has been threatening the Spanish Government in this same way if it does not turn a blind eye to Ryanair´s failure to date to pay a series of major fines levied by consumer authorities make me wonder whether the sell by date of the Ryanair model is now measured in months or in weeks.

None of which is much consolation to the hard pressed Catalan taxpayer.

Could this thread's origin be politically motivated, with local and regional elections taking place in Spain on May 22nd?

Political motivation of this thread ?
 

As I am not the originator I cannot answer.

As an observer and as a participant of/ in the thread, my hunch is "very possibly"; although quite how many votes PSC/ ERC/ ICV/ EUA/ PP/ CUP/ CiU and a very long tail of fringe parties might hope to trawl from this particular backwater of the internet I do not know. "Not many" would be my hunch there.

More important still would be my question "So what?"

No imputation of political interest in any way minimises, for me at least as a taxpayer in Catalonia, the importance of the issues which I personally have decided to post on:

i) Airline (and airport) subsidies in Catalonia at a time of significant public service cuts
ii) Subsidies for alleged basket cases à la Spanair (on which I have not expressed an opinion due to lack of knowledge. Though I am aware that the Catalan government seems to be extremely well disposed a priori to this airline.)
iii) Subsidies for malevolent predator airlines such as Ryanair (on which I have expressed a clear opinion which I have reinforced at the start of this sentence.)

Out of interest, can anyone supply up to date figures on how much each of these two airlines have received to date from the Catalan public purse ?

Can you provide examples of other countries where consumer bodies can levy fines where person getting hit with fine has not been charged nor evidence produced in a court of law.

Given Iberia and Spanirs performance over the years then a history of all the fines levied and paid by them would also be useful.

Otherwise it them comes down to an unelected Quango imposing fines on whoever it dislikes with a party unable to defend itself in any court of law or see the evidence the Quango has manufactured.

Consumer protection patterns EU/world wide.
 

My knowledge of adminstrative-judicial structures of this nature is limited in the extreme and so I cannot undertake any exercise of comparing & contrasting as you request. I do however suggest that the Spanish structure may well be more common than any sort of UK system.

Given my former clear statements on the matter you will not be surprised that the idea of a Spanish consumer body enforcing the rights of consumers agains such a low class organisation as Ryanair does not cause me any grief. Whatsoever !

Indeed were the consumer organisation concerned to belittle, to mock and to ridicule The Leprechaun himself in a way resembling that in which his employees (though I use the word loosely as they are seldom if ever "employees" in any juridical sense) around Europe berate passengers, especially those whom they perceive as socially vulnerable then not only would I not suffer any grief, I would actually smile a little smile of happiness.

Figures for Iberia and Spanair would indeed be interesting. Past and present figures too.

It would also incidentally, be interesting to know when the Spanish consumer authorities are finally going to enforce the Spanish law which states clearly that it is unlawful to charge seperately for baggage as any sort of extra outwith the ticket price; vague though the concept of ticket price may be for many LCC. Ryanair especially. A law which Ryanair (easyJet, Vueling and I don´t know how many others) break day in and day out.

Figures for fines levied on the low-class-carrier-par-excellence throughout the EU would indeed be interesting too. Though as this post is premised on Ryanar´s attempt to evade the fines in question, we would need to have a seperate column for fines paid, as against fines levied.

I agree 100% with IB4138.

NEWYEAR - You are creating an entirely false expectation with your post. It is factually wrong. You have no basis whatsoever to say with any level of confidence that ´Spanair is about to close´.

Further, you have corrected yourself in your 3rd post on the subject by saying ´Spanair is about to close if it can not find investors who squander their money, in my opinion.´

...when you consider defending your position, as likely you will (I hope not), please think about those people who are either directly or indirectly connected to the airline, for better or worse.

In my opinion you have misinterpreted the SAS statement, and created an expectation that has no basis in fact. I urge you to qualify or remove it, and allow the general thread on airline investment to run its course.

TBF.

You don't know but then claim its widespread :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
As for rest of the diatribe think best leave it where it belongs .

Use of the English language to convey meaning
 

"...claim it is widespread" is your interpretation of the words "may well be more common than...." which I wrote to express my opinion as to how common the Spanish-style of administrative-judicial decision making might be elsewhere in the EU and then world-wide

Though I believe that you have clearly not understood my statement (or worse) readers will be the judge.

It is very unusual for the plug to be pulled at the start of the summer season. If there is any positive cashflow it will be over the next few months. However if I worked for Spanair now looks to be the time to start dusting off the cv ready for what might happen in autumn.

Possible tie up with Turkish Airlines ?
 

That at least is the story being headlined by one of the main Spanish economic papers this morning, Expansion.

I know nothing of the economics or the avionics (sic) but the politico-cultural- sponsorship background might be worth commenting on.

Turkish Airlines are currently one of the major sponsors both of the Barcelona FC ( a well known local soccer team who have not been strangers to success in recent years... or indeed days) and of Euroleague, the basketball equivalent of the combined European Champions League & UEFA Cup (old name), which has its HQ in Barcelona. So in those relatively trivial terms "it makes sense" and to some extent it builds on pre-exisiting links given the small country nature of Catalonia and its petita i alta burgesía catalana cohort of movers and shakers in all the fields just mentioned. Most others too. ( A bit like The City ?)

Now whether any of this is a solid basis for a tie up between 2 airlines, one from within the EU and one from outwith, I will leave to others with more knowledge.

Spanair
 

Spanair will cease all operations today.
En Espanol (Sorry) http://www.preferente.com/transporte...at-179826.html

This is after Qatar walked away from talks this morning.
Qatar Airways leaves Spanair talks -shareholder | Reuters

Devastating news :* have fond memories of flying with Spanair to Majorca for the holidays always love them but serious miss management has most likely lead to this along with the crash of JK5022, sincere thoughts to all staff involved.

Spanair to cease operations
 

Email just received from ABTA:

Good Afternoon
We have heard reports that Spanair is due to cease all operations tonight at midnight. We have not received official communication in relation to this however it is being reported in the Spanish press.
We understand that Spanair do not operate to UK airports. If you require our assistance please email [email protected]

Shame if true, several of my holidays when I was younger started off on a Spanair plane.

Unfortunately, I was right. :(