It's all irrelevant anyway; weren't we told with 100% certainty that EZY were "pulling the plug" on MAN? :E :} :ugh:

As said before..... when EZY tookover GT they opened MAN with a "no promises" pledge. That situation has now changed and the airline is more than happy with MAN's performance. This has also been signalled by the launch of longer distance routes elsewhere across the network. i.e LTN-PFO. Also, the onboard revenue made by easyjet ex MAN makes the base one of the best performing in that respect.

MAN-SSH isn't saturated and LPL has a very defined catchment area.

Sorry Mr StoneyBridge - apologies for my earlier post. I don't know why I had forgotten that post that told us U2 were doomed at MAN.... :ooh:

Must be old age. I'll go and lie down now

Suzeman

Reply #1809

Seems like an eternity ago.... ;)

Re MAN-SSH, there are alot of deparutures to SSH from MAN, but I don't think any of them are sch'd service's, unless Jet2 operate one.
All depends on how often the flight departs throughtout the week.....

*Edit*
Jet2 do operate one as of Februray every Saturday.

TP

FYI Jet2 is weekly currently on Saturdays, & go up to twice weekly for S10.

With the wind as it is, the aircraft are currently operating on 05.

Does this affect the time when 23R ILS can go back to CAT III?

I believe it was 350 hours service (roughly 2 weeks continous service) on CAT I before CAT III could be re-introduced... For every hour that the aircraft are using 05, does that need to be added on to that 350 hours from last Wednesday?

The charters also sell a number of seats on flight only.

The MAN-SSH route is far from saturated! The airlines are using wide bodied aircraft and they are still flying full year round - simply because it is priced fantastically and it is much cheaper than dealing with the Euro.

Further distance (trust me, people think flying further makes the holiday seem more expensive!), better weather, cheaper prices, year round sun - win, win, win, win.

Wasn't it the year round sun that made the Canaries what they are today?

Also, LPL, as mentioned earlier, has nowhere near the demand that MAN has, whatever anyone says. U2 may seem to be adding to already proven routes, but we aren't in a time of prosperity - U2 have the customer base, price advantage so can compete with already settled carriers on routes already established instead of spending money on creating new traffic.

I'm sure MAN-SSH will be one of U2's most profitable routes on it's network - we northerners LOVE to spend money onboard!:ok: (If anyone saw the old Airline episodes with Brittania, they may have seen the rather camp, yet fantastic cabin service manager explain that southerners will try and save as much money on a flight home whereas us northerners want to spend spend spend - probably what makes MAN a favourite with the airlines!)

Easyjet Manchester-Ivalo charter for chrimbo!

Something of a sweeping statement don't you think MUFC Fan? Using that sort of 'logic' I could argue there is no demand between Manchester and Poland, Madrid, Rome and any other of the routes currently not served from Manchester, which obviously would be nonsense.

Time will tell how well any EZY service from the North West to SSH does - and which of it's North West bases they decide to operate the route from.

AndyH52,

I don't plan to turn this into another LPL v MAN dreary competition. It is a statement because it is a fact.

Where did I say there was no demand between LPL and SSH?:confused: All I said was that MAN has much more demand for SSH services than LPL:

from

Please read carefully Andy before accusing me of ever daring to think that MAN is bigger than LPL in any way!:{

Believe EZY and BMI have arranged Christmas flights (in the run-up to Xmas) from the UK, including ex. Manchester.
Assume this is in addition to the normal charter operators who usually serve these seasonal routes.

MUFC Fan, the only FACT is that Manchester has more capacity than Liverpool on the SSH route. Demand has nothing to do with it as there is currently no option for those pax who would find LPL easier and would prefer to fly from there than MAN.

You're free to think what you like, I didn't bring 'size' into this...

MAN-IVL flights have been known about for months now.....they fit in with the existing MAN schedule.

With regards to the MAN/LPL argument..........I think what MUFC is trying to say is that MAN's catchment area is huge when compared to Liverpool's lucrative yet very defined catchment. With that in mind, such a new Easyjet leisure destination would have better chance out of MAN.

My bets are on SSH-MAN. The marketing PA's issued to crews last week state MAN-SSH. These were swiftly recalled but this is probably due to the fact that the route isn't ready for launch yet.

Mancry tell us the other destination on the marketing PA!

I don't usually like to blab on here just in case anyone from work reads however the other destinations are widely rumoured here.

MancRy - The myth of MAN having a "huge" catchment area compared with other airports including Liverpool was well and truly 'de-bunked' during the RWY2 public inquiry and again when White paper on the future of aviation in the UK was published in 2002, when it was demonstrated that the airport with the largest population catchment in the North was actually Sheffield!!!.

Unfortunately for Sheffield airport read Sheffield Business park, sold for £1.
Could have been a great City airport, too short a runway for long haul or Euro Charters.

catchment area
 

Isnt Sheffield part of the Manchester airport catchment area?

When i want to go to the far east or USA where else can i catch a flight from,cant se Robin Hood ever having such destinations .

KLM from DTV etc ,could but transfers with them usually mean me at destination bags in Amsterdam!

That leaves the likes of Liverpool, Leeds again transfers and taking a chance on Ryanair ,ie they wont fall out with the airport and jump ship the day before you need to catch a flight to europe for a connection flight

no sorry to say we are part of Manchesters catchment!

Forgot Newcastle but Emirates have no competition from Qatar,Ethiad,etc
like manchester and it usually shows in the rates.

Thats my view anyway from sub tropical Sheffield Hallam.

Almost all of Yorkshire fall's in Manchester's catchment. I actually spent the first 18 years of my life in Barnsley and people seldom used LBA.....it was always MAN and perhaps EMA. SZD, when it was operating, served a niche at best.

I operate flights out of MAN (and sometimes LPL) and during the Scottish holidays certain routes are filled with, yes you guessed it, Scottish families. This demonstrates how further more the MAN catchment extends on a secondary basis.

All of which emphasizes the importance of the train station and as many direct connections into MAN as possible from outlying areas. The 3rd platform helps but more could be done to improve services.

Most people in the industry these days would accept the catchments are the same, then comes down to other factors where a route should operate from, below a quote from Oct 09 Airline Network News & Analysis:- “Surprisingly, neither Berlin nor Madrid are served from either Birmingham or Manchester though both destinations are served from Liverpool which shares much of Manchester’s catchment area” 7 years ago it was very different.

Catchment Areas
 

'Catchment areas' are actually a very complex and subjective topic. There are different types of catchment areas and they are influenced by many varying factors. Firstly, catchment areas vary by destination: an individual customer residing in Middlesbrough may select MAN for a flight to Philadelphia, but NCL or LBA for a flight to Dublin. Budget-conscious passengers (eg. stag/hen parties) may bypass geographically close airports to secure a low fare from (say) STN (an example of the economic catchment area overriding the geographical catchment area).

Some customers will fly from their preferred departure airport every time, considering (when required) an en route transfer preferable to the hassle of surface travel to a less convenient UK airport. Public transport fares, car parking charges, possible overnight hotel charges etc may need to be factored in also. And every wise traveller should remember to place a value on their own precious time (you only get to use it once!).

This is why I personally prefer to change flights en route from MAN to offline destinations such as Berlin or Madrid rather than mess about getting to a glorified bus station of MOL's choosing. If MOL and his ilk want me to fly with his company he must offer me a convenient product. I flew 22 Ryanair sectors last year (all MAN); next year the figure looks set to be zero. But I will still travel by air just as much. If Ryanair picks up other customers from elsewhere in my place then good luck to them. But I will not vary my travel preferences to accommodate Ryanair's tantrums.

The truth is that airport catchment areas are the function of every individual customer. One neighbour may find a less convenient airport acceptable for their needs whilst another will always opt for their first choice gateway.

There are regular contributors on here who claim that because there is a link from Liverpool to (say) Madrid there is no case for a parallel service from Manchester. Not so. Because those customers who currently use the LPL-MAD service do not represent 100% of the market from the Greater Manchester (or wider northern) area. Many of us change flights at AMS, CDG etc. in the absence of a dedicated flight. It is a mistake to suppose that the portion of Manchester area residents who choose the LPL-MAD option represent the entirety of the available market. An airline cannot get away with telling its customers where to go (although we all know one which tries very hard to do that!).

Certainly, all destinations are not created equal. A destination such as Wroclaw may not justify multiple departure points from the North, whereas arguably a more mainstream route such as Madrid can. Each potential service must be considered on its own specific merits.

So a catchment area cannot be simply dismissed as the geographical space which falls within a distance-based boundary line drawn on a map. Neither can it be defined only as the area from which 'Airport X' is the cheapest or quickest to reach. For every individual, distance from the airport is just one factor to be considered alongside financial cost, time expended, convenience, ease of access (availability of public transport?), personal preferences and so on. One person's catchment area is another person's no-go area.

This is why we could argue about "catchment areas" on here till the cows come home. But its best not to. There is no one correct answer. So we will never agree on one!

Cheers to all. SHED.

Very logical post SHED.

Aircraft on the VOR approach to 23R again this morning, and the Flight Calibrator B200 making several approaches on what looked like the ILS approach.
Is there a problem with the ILS again, or is it routine ahaead of going from CAT I to CAT III?

I noticed that EZY don't seem to use the air bridges at MAN T3 anymore. I'm sure they used them when they were operating the old GT fleet! Is this a new cost saving measure?

Air bridges slow down the turn round time and Lo-cost airlines try to avoid them if possible. It maybe the turn round times at MAN have been too long with the bridges and they have decided to go the way of LPL and other airports where lo-cost dominate.

Servisair - Aviance as One!!!!
 

Servisair, the UK’s leading ground handling provider, is delighted to announce that it has exchanged contracts with Go-Ahead plc to acquire their Regional ground handling business at 11 airports in the UK.
The Agreement encompasses Aviance ground handling operations at Aberdeen, Belfast City, Belfast International, Birmingham, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Glasgow, London Luton, London Stansted, Manchester and Southampton Airports. Servisair will also acquire the Aviance cargo handling business at London Stansted as well as Aviance lounges at London Gatwick, Birmingham and London Luton. This acquisition excludes the Aviance London Heathrow and Jersey ground handling businesses.
Abderaman El-Aoufir, CEO of Servisair comments: “Servisair is delighted to have the opportunity to expand its UK network to a total of 24 airports with the potential acquisition of Aviance UK’s Regional business. We are confident that this opportunity will give Servisair the ability to develop further economies of scale and offer airlines safe, competitively-priced, high quality ground handling services throughout the UK.”

"develop further economies of scale "
Is that job losses in management speak?
Good luck to all

Rgds Dr I

EZY Airbridges
 

Easyjet @ MAN have never used airbridges unlike GB Airways. It can speed up boarding by not using them but it's not really a cost cutting exercise. There are many airports across the network where Easyjet routinely use airbridge equipment.

Unlike a lot of 'neutral' correspondents on here, I do like MAN a lot. But my only criticism would be how long it sometimes takes the airbridges to be put in place. Over the past five years, I'd sat there was at least a 5-10 minute delay on about 15% of the flights I arrived on.

Perhaps bad luck and purely subjective I know (and a lot less inconvenient than having to embark/debark onto a bus - that's only happened once) but I think this is one area MAN could improve; so I could see why locos with 25 mins turnaround would be reluctant to use them (do they pay less also?) if there is a reliability question.

johnnychips..... the airbridges at MAN are positioned by the handling agent ... i.e. directly controlled (sort of :rolleyes:) by the airline...

Thanks, I didn't know that: I assumed it was under some sort of central control. So if EZY or FR wanted airbridges they would pay their agents to do it and hold them responsible if they weren't up to scratch.

And by the same token, do they therefore pay their handling agents to put up the steps to the back of the plane and direct passengers across the tarmac to the building then?

A scratch is the least of their worries. :};)

Yes. :ok:

anyone know when the T3 apron expansion will actually start? I'm thinking with Easyjet expanding, will it be needed pretty soon?

Boarding time is hugely speeded up if you can use front and rear doors instead of just one with an airbridge attached. Few airports have airbridges that can reach the rear doors - seem to remember that AMS has / had some which were cantilevered out from the pier over the wing. :eek:

Are they planning another one? The eastern extension of T3 apron which opened I think earlier this year is hardly used during at least during the day. Is it busy there at night?

Suzeman

"anyone know when the T3 apron expansion will actually start? I'm thinking with Easyjet expanding, will it be needed pretty soon?"

I agree with suzeman, with pax levels back to where they were almost 8 years ago surely,there must be loads of capacity for sometime to come


1997 15,948,454
1998 17,351,162
1999 17,577,765
2000 18,568,709
2001 19,307,011
2002 18,809,185
2003 19,699,256
2004 21,249,841
2005 22,402,856
2006 22,422,855
2007 22,112,625
2008 21,219,195

but has the distribution of airlines across the three terminals changed such that T3 is now busier than before and requires extension whilst others are less busy?

T3 is a very busy terminal with FlyBe,BA,BMI, Easyjet and American to name a few
many of which have a very fast turn around

Ian

Another award for MAN
 

Manchester have done it again. Below is a news item from the BBC website.



Passengers wanting first class service at Manchester Airport need go no further than the public lavatories - rated five-star by a "loo watchdog".
It scooped the best airport toilets at the annual Loo of the Year Awards Ceremony. An army of 300 toilet attendants regularly tackle the 1,015 U-bends, 464 urinals and 1,021 sinks to keep them the some of the cleanest in the UK.

Secret visits were carried out by toilet-checking judges.

The airport deals with 20 million passengers each year, who go through 43,930,000 metres (27,297 miles) of toilet roll over the course of 12 months. If "unrolled" this would stretch the equivalent distance of flying Manchester to Singapore four times.

Head of customer experience at the airport, Sarah Barrett, said: "We are absolutely delighted to have earned this recognition because in order to meet the expectations of our customers, we must get the 'basics' right.
"The award extends to all of the cleaning staff - they are among the many unsung heroes of Manchester Airport."

The various categories in the competition received more than 1,500 entries, and each toilet was graded against 100 different criteria. The annual Loo of the Year Awards started in 1987 and focuses on 'away from home' toilets throughout the UK. McDonalds was voted as having overall best toilets in the UK.
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Some observations. The Loo of the Year Awards site says it is for T1 Concourse toilets, not the lot. Best Scottish airport ones are at INV, with no winners declared in Wales and NI, so doesn't there need to be a flush-off between MAN and INV for UK champion status? :ok:

Obviously the airport have put out a press release but it has yet to make it onto the Airport website - perhaps they are too flushed with their success to have done it yet :)

The amount of bog roll used annually is the equivalent of flying MAN-SIN 4 times, so that would take more than a week to unravel at the moment :}

And finally, I wish the organisers would use a word other than loo. Toilet, bog or convenience, but loo - nah

Suzeman