Lexoncd, daynehold
Birmingham snowclo for nearly 12 hours Thur/Fri I suppose they must be as crap as Manch for snow clearance

Have I been dreaming the past few very mild winters or is lexoncd talking tosh?

I was stuck on the ground on one of our flights this morning for 4 hours. Amongst our pax were some Canadian's. They didn't see the disruption as out of the ordinary............there local airport has to close during heavy snow fall too for a short period whilst the snow is cleared.

The runway was cleared pretty quickly if i'm being honest, de-icing and getting the de-icing timing right is what compounds the delays. Theres no point buying equipment that sits arounds gathering rust. The airport cloded for a few hours, get over it.

Unless you are aware of and understand the demanding standards required on runway surfaces , it would be wise to desist from comment about the snow clearing operations. ICAO, EASA, the CAA, not to mention the operators etc require surfaces to be pretty much clear of ALL contaminants.......snow [wet & dry], slush, ice, water [more than 3mm].

A few more facts. Dealing with the elements is not easy. Snow clearing & de-icing equipment is extremely expensive. Additional staff required to operate the above equipment are costly to provide. People expect a magic wand to be waved and everything to operate on time. The comments of the Canadian pax. mentioned above should be noted.
Helen

Very true, H. :ok:

Unfortunately most pax nowadays don't want to pay for that. :ugh:

PLease don't blame the passengers for the mistakes of the people running the business. It's like wondering why the kids are fat 'cos mum and dad keep feeding them...

Like...
1) Chutes
2) Lifejackets
3) Ropes
4) Airport Fire Services
5) My kidney donor card

All there for good reason and factored into the costs of running the business. The problem is that robust de-icing and snow clearing is now seen as optional rather than a necessary practice. As your man said, get them and you shouldn't be "cloded" for too long.....

The equipment you mentioned are safety equipment. Oh and airport fire services do not just attend "crashes". Aswell as being called out for numerous precautionary landings each week they are also needed right across the airport.

Skipness One Echo boasts that he/she knows 'squat diddly'!

I rest my case!

The age of 'Loco' means that Loco airlines don't want to pay the kind of airport charges of yesteryear and their clientele want the cheapest available fare. [That's why so many airports have super shopping centres and car parking is the main emphasis of their web sites. Airports have to make money somehow!].

Safety equipment is mandatory on the part of airports and air operators. Airports are required to have a snow contingency plan but there are no requirements to clear manoeuvring and apron areas within any particular time scale. That is left largely to the airport operator.

Equipment and personnel availability will determine the speed of clearance together with the prevailing weather conditions. If it continues to snow/freeze etc it may be sensible to delay commencement of clearing operations. Alternatively the clearance time will be determined by the quantities of contaminant, wind, temperature, cessation of the weather etc.

It certainly is not quite as simple as it may appear to the uninitiated spectators!

Helen 49

Bedtime reading :ok:

http://www.magworld.co.uk/magweb.nsf...LWinterOpsPlan

Bet the author didn't have much enthusiasm to write such an intricate manual for such an unlikely event.

Helen, as a commercial analyst of some experience I know a wee bit about the above. It's not exactly rocket science either let's be clear. The problem is that core services (snow clearing in the event of winter weather in.....winter) are being treated as non essential. Revenue which in past years went to paying for a well trained staff and up to date contingency plan has been assigned elsewhere. A fragmentation of responsibilities on some airfeilds has added to things The end result being some people simply crossed their fingers and assumed mild winters were here to stay. How well did that work for the business?

If airfield management wasn't so desperate then we wouldn't be where we are now. Standing up to Ryanair was a good start from MAN, however it will take some time to stop the erosion of margins in a fiercely competitive trading environment.

I also know enough that MAN's projected passenger figures were out by a country mile and projected revenue did not materialise. That is most certainly not the fault of the consumer. TWO runways on current figures are a nice to have but hardly an essential.

Stop lashing out and look a touch closer to home I think.

Do try and play the ball in future....

Something different at Manchester today :D
 

I put it to you then Skip me old mukka,

Ask a bunch of passengers.

a. Pay £10 for your flight and if it snows I'm afraid we may shut the airport for a bit and you won't get home on time. Oh and by the way when was the last time it snowed heavily for any length of time round 'ere?

b. Pay £100 for your flight and we will spend most of that on buying heavy snow clearing/de-icing gear and keeping a load of staff up to date on it's use and.....etc, etc.?

I know what I would answer and it ain't b.

Ball played sweetly out of the middle of the bat methinks. Lets see where it lands. :ok:

Developing some of the ideas above, what about the appropriate regulator putting KPIs on airport operators to clear the main areas after a certain time?

The operators would need more kit/personnel to achieve this, or have to dual-train other operatives, or whatever.

Just a random idea: what're your thoughts?

Can we put the MAN snow clearing chat to bed please. Its the same over & over again. Most Euro airports have closed over this harsh winter, including this week Birmingham (12 hours?) & Frankfurt & many others.
No other airport forum constantantly goes on & on about it. It snows...it closes- end of, MAN is certainly no worse than any other UK airport IMHO.
Nothing is like it used to be....airlines are not what they used to be, flying is not what it used to be, security is not what it used to be, policeman are not what they used to be, customer service in shops is not what it used to be & neither is airport priorities....get over it.:sad:

Here here!! :D:D:D

Mr A. Tis..........very well said and the realistic truth!

Helen

...and finally lets not forget, if we had, had, a more a typically mild winter but MAG had spent £1m+ on some state of the art snow clearing equipment back in say October , there are those in here (probably me included), who would be slaughtering them as it now lay idle and gathering dust in one of the hangars....

on this one its a no win situation.....

Any chance of us getting back to discussing Air India.......?

I was really interested in some of the discussion good and bad, but some of the usual suspects never passed comment, and then we were hijacked by the dreaded "snow debate", must be some more mileage in this topic :ok:

I have looked at another post with reference to expanding our rail network at MAN by including another platform and the tram stops that are planned. Would there be any point in adding a rail line to Cargo Centre for freight that is off loaded from aircraft or for onward passage via MAN via the rail network?
We already have access to Motorways,Sea Port (ship canal at Trafford),obviously other airports that are all either on-site or within 15 minutes.Adding a freight line would mean we become an "all-mode" hub for international traffic.
But is it viable in the long term to add a line?


Mark

The Hindu Business Line : AI to begin daily service to Washington via Milan

Milan looks like the likely recipient

As it stands today my understanding is that the rail network around Manchester is full, they cannot fit any further trains on the lines, as such a freight line would not be able to run any trains during the day (although night time would be a different matter).

Until HSR & or Manchester Hub are delivered the tracks are full I'm afraid.