I have been very vocal over the snow clearance issues of late, I am not an armchair critic, I work airside operationally and as a user, I have seen 1st hand what has been going on, I have seen my area of operation massively affected in part by the weather yes, but mainly by the painfully slow response to the conditions and on some days no response.

As I have said in previous posts I am no stranger to MAN I have watched it grow for 40 years and worked there for 30 years, so I am perfectly entitled to knock the airport when I see things going wrong on such a regular basis.

This forum is full of people who are making excuses for the airport, it is fact that these snow events are not being dealt with as they should.

The latest downturn figures are a result of the recession, but they wont be helped by a management that doesnt seem to understand the simple equation no aircraft=no airport !!!

It will until we have worked the Ryanair pullout through so October should start to
look a lot better

Ian B

Man777, I hear you..the fiasco prior/over xmas when the airport used cheap/watered down de-icing fluid was a disgrace...a simple case of penny pinching caused untold damage...I came on and voiced my dissapointment at the airport. But when it comes to the snowfall we have had (yesterday included) the airport gets a raw deal...I have been on here countless times and heard people say that Salzburg/Zurch etc etc copes.....why cant MAN cope....its because those airports have the infrastucture, Manchester does not.

Regardless of if we get 10 minutes or 10 days notice we simply cant cope, and why should we...this severity of weather was last seen in 1981.

We dont and wont have the equipment/resources until this thing becomes the norm.

People should accept this for what it is...Extreme weather.

Thinking about the pax drop if you look at the lost Ryanair it was worth probably
60,000 pax a month and BMI trans atlantic another 24,000 so that accounts for over
half the lost pax in fell one fell swoop add to that losing Delta JFK and reduced shedules with American/SIA that adds quite a large chunk and the reduction in fleet size by Thomson and Thomas Cook that probably accounts for most of it

Based on that with Easyjet adding extra services and aircraft from this month
and a few new and reinstatement of services over next 3/4 months it will start to look better

Ian B

MAN does have the infrastructure and equipment, a new fleet of expensive blower / brushes and deicing rigs along with a multitude of smaller ploughs and brushes.

The old snow fleet was bought from Saudi Arabia (actually used for sand clearance) and that managed the job, so why cant a purpose built fleet that is twice the size of old cope ?

Unlike most airports it has the benefit of a second runway, during the case for its creation great play was made of the fact that a 2nd runway can help prevent closures in emergencies and bad weather (snow)

Yesterdays weather WAS NOT extreme, abnormal for NW England perhaps but definately not severe. There was less than 2 inches of wet snow which started to thaw. Runway 2 could have been swept and treated and alternated with Runway 1. A statement I have made several times, and on numerous occasions others have replied "we cant afford to keep R2 open".

It may cost a bit more but the solution to yesterdays closure was there, a very expensive strip of concrete which is not getting used. MAN has the tools to do the jobs but unfortunately not the will, or so it seems !!!

MAN likes to be seen up with the big boys of the airport world, but after this winters performance I fear that the world is laughing at us.

I always thought wet snow was the worst to clear and certainly seems to cause more
problems

Ian B

There was less than 2 inches of wet snow which started to thaw. Runway 2 could have been swept and treated and alternated with Runway 1. A statement I have made several times, and on numerous occasions others have replied "we cant afford to keep R2 open"

Manchesters arrivals departures are spaced enough to allow snow to form on the active, you say brush on and keep one open...well if they are using 05R then they would have to cross 05L in order to get to the stands, so that means having both brushed. If they are landing on 05L then they sweep 05R, but what about the intersections etc etc.

The problem with Manchester is that it isnt the busiest, so the snow forms between landings which can be 15-20 minutes apart, and before you say it, its impossible to get on in-between landings, they could sweep say the first 3rd leaving the braking action Good/****/Ice Rink/Herds.

MAN likes to be seen up with the big boys of the airport world, but after this winters performance I fear that the world is laughing at us

Yeah, because Luton, Gatwick and Birmingham havent been affected have they ???

Yes keeping a two runway sweeping operation going would take a good deal of coordination and may create some holding on switchover, but it would prevent total closure.

It seems that the short phrase "can do" is no longer part of MANs mind set.

My Grandad used to say "You have made your bed now sleep in it" if ever there was a phrase more appropriate for the future of MAN !!

I am very tired of this subject now as I feel I can say no more. I give up !!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Any chance of QR increasing capacity any time soon? They seem to have moved to a semi-permanent A333 which is obviously larger than EY's smaller edition but with the latter replacing their service with the beast that is the 77W - will QR look to match it and see FOUR daily 77Ws to the M.E.?!:}

I cannot see them looking at double daily as their current timetable seems to suggest that they don't have enough A330s to meet the requirements.

Man of Man

OK just one more reply

Gatwick, Luton and Birmingham all have one worthwhile runway, they have an excuse, MAN does not !!

Over and Out

Traffic Statistics
 

Amid all the doom and gloom, the January flown cargo figures reveal a 14% rise in throughput. This is the second month on the trot that there has been growth in flown cargo (+3% in December).:ok:

Air cargo figures have previously been a good indication of a coming change in the country's economic state, so the "green shoots" may be showing at last.

Unfortunately this part of the business never gets the coverage it deserves, but then loads of boxes are not very sexy and they can't spend money in the shops. :} Anyway, I hope it means better times for the cargo community at the airport at least.

As has been mentioned earlier, it will take some months yet for the Ryanair effect to work its way out of the passenger and movement figures, so I reckon they have still got some way to fall unless lots of new business materialises soon.

Suzeman

Sorry to inject a note of realism into the snow debate, but a couple of facts about yesterday that may be pertinent:

The snow started on cue at 1400. The airport remained open until 1550, by which time it was coming down very heavily, and had been for a while.

The snow stopped not long before 1800. By 1830 MAN had reopened - pretty impressive I would say.

ManofMan makes an important point about the frequency of use of the runway - if it was being used every 60 seconds like those at Heathrow then a single clearance, then constant use would deal with most of the snow. However a clearance and then 20 minutes without a couple of jets to blow away the stuff that had gathered in the meantime would mean another sweep would be required. Think about the difference in how slowly snow gathers on a motorway compared to a side street.

Manchesters Passenger Decline Continues into 2010
January 2010 pax - 1,034,459 down 14.06%
January 2010 movements - 10,617 down 18.59%

Pax 12 months to 31.01.10 - 18,669,520 down 15.20%
Movements 12 months to 31.01.10 - 170,060 down 15.89%

...well some nice cheery news from our BHX correspondent !:)

Many thanks for that !

Anybody like to move the debate away from snow ( until the next precipitation at least) and hazard a guess on what figure we will top out at in terms of pax for 2010 ?

I would say and annual of ~19m?

Should pick up in the summer compared to last - more flights from most operators.

Cheers Suzeman
Just got back from seeing the real Tornado! and luvely it is, lot less noisy than
one of those with a pointy nose
Glad to see cargo on the rise again
See you for a beer in Stockport tonight?

Ian B

17,089,647 is my guess.

January Stats
 

Whilst the January stats make appalling reading by any measure, the extent of the drop is not solely explained by services withdrawn since last Winter. The prolonged period of Arctic weather caused not only diversions away but mass cancellations amongst the regular flying programme for days on end as well. And when flights did operate, not all intended passengers were able to make it to the airport anyway.

I am in no way claiming that the stats for January would ever have been rosy, but given 'average' weather they would have been considerably less grim than this.

SHED.

Haha well it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest!

Shed
Yes are probably quite right on that as there vast numbers of canx flights on several days

Ian B