Chaos at Terminal 5
 

Willie Walsh is crowing already that the first BA aircraft departed on time this morning from terminal 5..... And so it did.

It was also the last aircraft that left on time as poor organisation by both BA and BAA have contributed to delays running up to 2 hours due to problems attributed to passenger handling, baggage, ground transport shortages and security. It seems that all those bright minds that have devised the foolproof tests that have been going on over the past few months... actually got their sums badly wrong. It seems BA will be forced to cancel a number of services today in an effort to recover the situation.

Yet again the travelling public are to suffer, but you will be pleased to hear that the T5 shops are doing such a roaring trade that the deafening sound of the cash registers can be heard all the way over in the City of London.

Time to consider your future Mr. Walsh..... Time to move on.

Delays on BAA Departures started at a 90 min average and are now going beyond two hours. Yesterday I had a BA B767 an hour late on stand as they couldn't get anyone to bring it over from the Maintenance Base so I was over an hour late going to Dusseldorf ! Also the A319 that brought me home was an hour late for reasons that the new Captain was even told about. Last month I was 90 minutes late to Brussels as the crew couldn't get a bus out to Stand 440 to prepare the aircraft.
I suspect all of the above will be just as true at Terrible 5. Get your bloody act together you muppets !

What do you expect of an opening of a very busy new facility? There will be a lot more glitches before it settles down to an ordinary routine. Give them a chance.

Believe me the theory from New South Wales is spot on but the reality in London has to be seen to be believed. The words piss up and brewery spring to mind.

I'm with HotDog on this one I'm afraid. As with everything that is first run/opened/started/whatever, there are going to be teething problems. I'm fairly sure that this isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened.

Nevertheless, even thought it's only recently been opened, it does sound like the management could have done better.

As a regular user of BA at Heathrow, and still mightily hacked off from yesterdays delays at Terrible One, ( still falling down, no natural light and more shops than Bluewater ), the BA operation at Heathrow with the same militant unions, and congested airspace and full runways is approaching a turning point. If Terminal 5 is any less than a triumph then I no longer give a damn about Heathrow and Runway 3. They can't run an on time airline sp there's no point in booking on business. If the BAA balls this up and insist on fingerprinting the public out of greed for retail profits then I hope that CDG and AMS wipe the floor with this bunch of clowns. .
BAA are ****. Really awful, unfocussed and greedy company that has overreached itself and is in a mountain of debt already.
Wait for "We know Terminal 5 isn't what we promised but Heathrow East will be" Haaaah! *goes for a lie down*

Security delays?
 

Just for the record, wasn't it as late as yesterday that it was decided to substitute mug-shots in place of fingerprinting? Can anyone tell us what effect this is having on security flow-rates?

By the way, are you guys already checking in at T5, or are you still using the "Bouncy Castle"?

Day 1 give them a chance. Gardmoemen have many challenges wnen Fornebu closed overnight yet did anyone worry some weeks later when things settled down.

Think what its like when you move house and you planned that yourself then multiply that X fold and you might start to have a slight understanding of the logistics involved.

Could they have moved T1 operations first then T4? Well no because the integration is planned for one terminal.

BA and BAA have done many things to be annoyed about but give the troops on the ground a break...

dunno, but that's BAA's problem. you can't just ignore the law of the land just because it suits you.
Its about time BAA started thinking about how to run an airport and stop thinking about how much shopping revenue they can extract from the poor passengers wallet.

Fair comment - and I accept it is a mammouth task, however..... this is not the first time the BA and BAA have left their paying customers in a mess, and nobody really gives a toss if there is a valid reason. All they care about is that once again, the product they purchased has failed to be delivered.

Ooops we've left your bags behind, sorrreee
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7314816.stm

As I said, couldn't find their own backsides with both hands and a torch.

er excuse its the firsts day....no way surely they have actually looked at other airport openings (I was at HKG 10 years ago and that had a lot to learn from) and see the cockups there and learned.....sadly not from the looks of the posts here.

I'm waiting for someone from Singapore to write in agreeing:

"it's normal, to be expected, teething troubles, was a big job you know".

"every time we open a new terminal we have the same mess" ...

Or rather I'm not waiting because it won't happen.

This is a very British cockup in the British way of doing things.

BAA & BA probably thought it was "good enough", and they'd get away with it.

The Guardian was reporting at 10.45 that the baggage computer had crashed as someone had entered (initialised it?) with wrong time:uhoh:

If we believe the BBC it also left without baggage, which I would have thought makes loading somewhat quicker. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7314816.stm. Wonder when they are plannign the first on-time departure with bags ?


A bbc article earlier today also quoted long queues at checking and security, quoting Walsh as saying:Presumably the right thing to do faced with a new terminal with reported teething problems is to turn up late. :ugh:

Incompetence
 

Folks, don't make excuses for this incompetent shower 'running' LHR. They have had sufficient time for dry runs, but still they cannot get it right. Equipment breakdowns are also down to shoddy workmanship, but then that's what the UK is becoming - shoddy.

As previously stated, all that BAA and their Spanish owners are after is your money, and they do not care much about how you are dealt with, nor delays; after all, if you are delayed, you are more likely to use the stores in the terminal.

Try Paris, Frankfurt or Amsterdam, as they all leave LHR way behind, and the staff are generally more friendly than the often rude staff at LHR.

Just heard on the radio that BA pax aren't recieving their bags and to expect long queues at T5 !

Whoops!!

Re Expect teething problems in day 1? Why? This didn't happen when Singapore opened up their latest terminal on day 1.

Fiasco @ 5 well done BA/BAA!!

Incoming passengers facing a two hour delay for their baggage

Who woukld beleive that a Spanish run airport could have such delays.

Malaga anyone? :p:p:p

The problem is not that there are glitches on day one - that's to be expected. The problem is that this bunch of wankers have NEVER in decades been able to run the airport as an airport !! As a shopping mall, well, that's another kettle of fish entirely.......

It's the same muppets that made our lives a misery at Terminals 1,2,3 and 4 running the show, we should *NOT* be that surprised.

From BA.COM

"On 27 March 2008, London Heathrow Terminal 5 will welcome the first British Airways passengers through its doors. It’s the culmination of an amazing project that began with one thought – to make connecting the world simple and pleasurable again. The result is a seamless and upgraded airport experience unlike any other in the world, and one that’s exclusively for British Airways passengers."

Classic.

Providing you don't arrive from BKK, SIN or SYD as it's off to T3 we go.

I'm just thankful that the likes of Emirates fly directly to regional airports, so I can avoid the fiasco that is Heathrow completely. I have no desire to witness T5 at all.

What a pity it didn't all go seamlessly on day one, just like Hong Kong and Denver. Wait a minute...........

CNN has just announced that BA "moved 1000 aircraft overnight", so a few glitches are to be expected..

1000 aircraft?

Blimey when did we get that big?

That is a honest reflection of what happens...seems like T5 is no different from the rest of Hellrow - the same hell experience everywhere!

Note to BAA: I shall not be using your services again; I guess you don't really care about this at all but that's been your attitude to passingers, sorry "customers" or now "shoppers" all along. From your totally incompetent handling of security and general management of an airport from both SLF and crew side of things to your latest madness called T5 and its orwellian style sercurity procedures...absoluately disgusting.

Apparently - according to BA(A) - the problems are attributable to late arrival of staff (baggage handlers?) who had problems with car parking and security screening checks . . .

and:- (More at:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7314816.stm )

Yep the BAA in their wisdom this morning only had one of two ground level security points open meaning 40 minute queues for staff to get in, making them late, which in turn has knocked into everything else.
You would have thought on the first day they would have opened all points but no, this is the BAA.
Utter uselessness from the BAA. Unfortunatly BA is on the end of these BAA caused problems, not that BA doesn't have its problems but if BAA could just sort themselves out!

What's all this crap about "teething troubles" and difficulties are to be expected in projects such as this ?

I recall North Terminal at Gatwick and LHR T4 coming on stream without "chaos".

Both run by BAA...... but not the same BAA as the current version is run by a load of money grabbing, process management orientated muppets who have bugger all aviation experience - they probably think they have done a good enough job when compared to their previous factory / warehouse / retail operations.

They have spent millions of pounds and man hours practising this, but the end result appears to be woeful.

Wait for the corporate spin from the PR man, ( ex government by the way ), and yeah, there'll be a load of bonuses for opening on time.

:ugh:

Lack of Fuel at T5 now......see the video..........:cool:

Car Park Ticket Machines Broken, Escalators broken, lack of fuel, Queues............ the list goes on.

The world is laughing at Britain again............ :ooh:

And Willie reckons it's still a good day- what's the man on!!!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...310756,00.html

Well Done BA!
 

:ok:

This doesnt surprise me at all with the BA Management all believing that they are so much better than anybody else whilst enjoying all the trimings of being a BA employee. Some [minority] are very good and work hard but others undertake the least amount that they can get away with and enjoy all the BA 5* benefits whilst claiming overtime and every adhoc payment that they can think off!

I'm just hoping that the recent 777 incident doesnt end up being a BA induced problem when the AAIB report is published.

As a passenger, I dont care whose fault it actually is. BA ultimately is at fault for not making sure that ALL plans for T5 are implemented smoothly, regardless of what company they try to pin the blame on this time. Stand up BA and take it on the chin for a change.

Time to get the Emirates buyout back on the table, Willy :)

I am glad I choose LX today. No traffic jam on the motorway, the usual Hellrow chaos at drop off. I am now sitting in shabby T2 after a speedy and friendly security procedure. My LX flight is on time.:)

Maybe I really had the lucky draw today! It paid off that I paid 12£ more compared to BA.

Hope the bus works, my car is still in Zurich AP parking and no traffic congestion on my way home.

Frank

BA blamed the glitches on problems with "staff familiarisation"
 

For those who live in the UK: think of what happens when you go to your high street electrical store and want some product info other than the price. Arrives a spotty-faced youf who's obviously had no education and doesn't know a woofer from a mouse.

Multiply that by 1000+ and you've got Heathrow. I don't believe most of the problems originate from faulty equipment. Faulty training, possibly. Faulty management, certainly.

it would be nice to hear from someone working there,explaining what the hell is going on in the bags dept and its sistem ..ofcourse they could have done hundreds of dry tests but nothing like the real mess going on and all the thousands of situations that can occur to get the real picture..someone needs a steady hand and make the show happen.real managers.:p

It seems that bmi plan to delay starting US services until the market and the changes at LHR terminals settles down look shrewd and ..er common sense, perhaps they have been around long enough to see a fluster cluck comming when they see one, i bet their bookings over the next few weeks will be up.

For t5 despite all the problems, nobody will get burnt by hot water in the toilets as every tap will have had a warning that this hot water is HOT and may burn you, yes every single penny that should have been spent on equipment, quality staff and training will have spent on health and saftey and nice shop fronts. LoL

Just goes to show that it takes more than a few power dressing ponytails with clipboards to manage the world's busiest international airport.

As for Poor Wullie, his staff don't trust him, his customers now don't trust him - and with a bit of luck, his shareholders will soon start thinking the same way by the time they read their morning papers.

I'm pretty sure Oor Paddy must have overtaken all his predecessors by now in the bad news ratings for BA.

Mind you he looks as if he may have a great future as a horse jockey!

From Aunty -
"
One passenger in a wheelchair was stuck on a flight arriving into T5 from Glasgow for more than an hour - and then when he was transported to the terminal he realised he could not get up the kerb.
"I couldn't even get into the building without getting up a step," Matt Duffy told the BBC.
"It is totally unbelievable as far as I am concerned."
"
and even better..
"
Heather Stevens' partner Neil Stonebridge was due to take off from T5 for Los Angeles at 1005 GMT. Almost three hours later the plane was still on the runway waiting for passengers' baggage to be loaded.
Heather, 36, told the BBC: "Apparently the computer software told the baggage people that the flight had taken off, So everyone in the plane just watched as all their suitcases were taken back into the terminal instead of being loaded on"
"
Awesome...

What A Disgrace !!!!

As a one-time airport manager (BAA even) I'm with all those who believe that the pathetic excuse "first day, mustn't expect too much" etc etc etc is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to cockups.

THERE IS NO REASON WHATSOVER that it should not go absolutely perfectly on the first day of operation. Indeed it is the one day it should go perfectly.

After that it's all downhill as machines break down and demands increase.

As has been suggested, BAA is a useless airport operating company, under previous and present ownership. Its strategic view that airports are shopping malls with a captive "footfall" is the culprit. There is no-one, no-one, in any position of responsibility who has any experience or knowledge of air transport.

I recall people being vilified from the late 1980's onwards, ie when the shopkeepers took over, for suggesting that an airport's only role was to transfer people from one mode of transport to another as painlessly, efficiently. seamlessly and above all as quickly as possible. Those of us who thought that way were informed by the retailer(s) in charge that we simply didn't understand modern business.

Above all we were told that we should not resist the company objective of increasing dwell time in the departure lounges.

So it comes as no surprise that T5's first day is already a national joke. I really don't blame BA, although they could and should have have the balls to force BAA to do it properly from the time the project started.

BAA will look at the receipts from retail and catering as its only measure of how well the day went.

I heard on Radio 2 at about 2.30 that someone had phoned his wife to say that they had been told to wait 3 hours to collect their baggage after landing. What a fiasco. How shaming for Britain.

And don't get me started on the finger-printing idea. A stupid notion, introduced for the wrong reasons (maximise shopping exposure) by idiots blinded by their shopping obsession to the obvious flaws that would never let it actually happen. Thank God it's gone, but what a way to "run" things.

All check in suspended in T5, reports say.