Like it or not, the current revenue stream does not cover the operating costs of the airport.
Like it or not, the future revenue forecasts do not appear to be able to fund the operating costs of the company.

It's all very well having ideas and asperations of what could happen in the most optomistic quarters of your non commercial fantasies, but the fact is that Manston is costing it's owners a huge amount of cash to operate each month and, with no profit margin upon the horizon, it can't go on this way.

Like any other business that can't justify it's existence, hard decisions have to be made in the boardroom or by the banks - the end is nigh.

The end is nigh?
 

nn

Unless you are on the board of Infratil you will have no idea on the discussions.

The amount of money being lost at MSE at present is a spit in the ocean compared to Inftratils other highly profitable ventures.

There has been lots of talk on this board about how wonderful the prospects at Lydd are, but ZD makes 15 people redundant! This is probably a shot across the bows of the local council to make them consider more quickly the planning applications. But if Lydd is cutting back on staff and Manston is recruiting surely this tells you something is happening at MSE.

Lydd has been lauded for having the environmental impact survey and for trialing 737 landings but why, they are certainly further behind MSE in the race to become a regional airport. And with the redundancies surely this was a misguided publicity stunt and waste of money.

MDIS


Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265868&page=17

weevhearditb4
 

Very interesting that Infratil has loads of money. Why then has it taken over two years to sort out the business plan so the local authority can sort out the 106 agreement which is some Seven years out of date?

The delays in resolving various issues that pertain to the above 106 is causing problems in the local community and these are not the vocal minority or even the vociferious minority.

An EIA MDIS is an acceptable way to develop an airport and i personally do not care if Lydd survives or not - and that more or less goes for Manston, which employs less people now than it ever did. What the majority of the people of Thanet want is a controlled environment that looks after its wellbeing and currently we do not have that either at the airport or the local infrastructure.

How effective the local authority has been over these issues and others in the local area will be resolved on May the 3...now that is going to be more interesting than Manston or Lydd!

weevhearditb4

I fully agree with you that the local residents deserve a controlled environment that looks after its wellbeing.

I do not know why the business plan is 2 years late,but I dont think its because of finances, however on reading the notes from the local council website the following was found

"Thanet District Council and Planestation, operators at Kent International Airport Manston are renewing the 106 Agreement to keep pace with the Airport's development.

This is a voluntary move on the part of the Airport who have expressed a wish to work in partnership with the Council to reach an Agreement that will provide safeguards for the environment of Thanet and its community"

As this was a voluntary move by Planestation are Infratil bound to renew or renegotiate the agreement? I dont know!

Can you enlighten me on what is happening on May 3rd?

MDIS

Before we start this one again let's look at the facts

"Section 106 agreement

Section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 allows a local planning authority (LPA) to enter into a legally-binding agreement or planning obligation with a land developer over a related issue. The obligation is sometimes termed as a 'Section 106 agreement'.

Such agreements can cover almost any relevant issue and can include sums of money. Possible examples of S106 agreements could be:

the developer will transfer ownership of an area of woodland to a LPA with a suitable fee to cover its future maintenance

the local authority will restrict the development of an area of land, or permit only specified operations to be carried out on it in the future eg, amenity use
the developer will plant a specified number of trees and maintain them for a number of years

the developer will create a nature reserve

S106 agreements can act as a main instrument for placing restrictions on the developers, often requiring them to minimise the impact on the local community and to carry out tasks which will provide community benefits."

So S106s are not airport-specific. A pal of mine at Thanet District Council (for which elections are taking place on May 3rd - pay attention at the back there, MDIS) tells me that the worst body locally for ignoring S106 commitments is the QEQM Hospital.

With a number of significant developments coming up at the airport (not the freight apron extension, which has extant permission) my guess is that Infratil are keeping their powder dry. There's no point in agreeing a S106 without a bucketful of approved schemes, and the too-vociferous micro-minority of MAG-types get in a lather about anything to do with aviation whilst ignoring issues that have a lot more validity.

Oh Yes Local Elections
 

Sorry for sounding like a plank!!

I was thinking something specific to MSE

Doh!:uhoh:

MDIS

A Section 106 agreement at Manston, or rather a renewal of it, could be voluntary.

As stated above a Section 106 agreement is linked to a planning consent. The conditions of a S106 agreement have to relate to that consent. So for example an application for planning for a new advertising hoarding at the Airport couldn't be linked to the need to build a railway spur.

But it would be possible for a planning consent for say a new passenger terminal to say that the airport will not build another one for 10 years. At the end of 10 years the airport could voluntarily agree to extend that agreement for another 5 years, but it would not strictly be a S106 agreement. And the Airport could not be forced to agree such a term.

So if there is a historic S106 agreement it can only be extended if the Airport agrees to do so voluntarily.

Obviously if the airport applies for any planning consent in the future the Council can seek to agree new S106 agreements with them.

Also the airport has the ability to appeal any decision on a planning consent to the government, and if that happens a S106 agreement may not be agreed, or could be superceded. It is therefore in the interest of the COuncil to work with the Airport, and whilst they may not get the best solution (in the view of the Council and local residents) if they didn;t do they could end up with something a lot worse!

Thanks
 

Thanks Chris

A very informative post

MDIS

I feel another sleepless night in Thanet coming up!! :rolleyes:

Ok catflaps, suppose you are in right in what you believe is the correct translation the 106 agreement..... and given your normal anti manston posts it's a big ask, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.
What is your problem??
If it is soooo binding as you say it is, why havent the council jumped on this, or shut the airport down, or levied a fine....or something !!!
How can it be that such a big fuss is made over an agreement that one side doesnt agree to?
I appreciate that you are getting your knickers in a twist over this and are quite happy to ramble on post after post about it, BUT it obviously doesnt suit Infratil to enter into this agreement right at this moment in time, because maybe, just maybe they have a PLAN.
Some might even call it a business plan, and maybe, just maybe, by entering into this agreement, this will restrict any negotiations that are currently taking place to ensure that Manston has a future, local people have employment and East Kent has a viable Airport, with a scheduled passenger operation in the next year or so.
Any way thats my 2 peneth worth thrown in, my cocoa is gettin cold and it's time for night night...zzzzzzzzz

cf

The fines levied for night flying were charged to Planestation and not Infratil. Would I be correct in suggesting that if some non humanitarian night flights took place now that the council could not impose fines on Infratil?

I agree that a new agreement will be more stringent and will close some of the loopholes and shortcomings of the orignal agreement, therefore why on earth would Infratil want a new tighter agreement, when the current facilities and infrastructure could cope with say 600,000 pax per year.

Even the most optimistic posters are agreeing that this could take 2 years to achieve and the negative group say it will never happen! So if it will never happen why do you want a new agreement? It is not difficult to work out why Infratil dont need to re negotiate at the moment? By demanding this agreement it would suggest that the airport will finally be successful and some posters seem opposed to this.

Also Infratil are not knocking on the door of the local council with their begging bowl as Planestation were. Infratil do actually run airports and therefore have the experience to deal with local councils and will not be bullied by a minority opinion in return for some taxpayers money.

MDIS

Hi Toptrumps, When I book its comes up with the airline code GSW which is Skywings of Greece. If you have Air Atlanta flight numbers coming up then maybe excel will be leasing an MD 83 from Skywings and fly it for them, Excel did last year lsd an MD off Viking I think and flew it for other charters. not sure.

James

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...ext_id=1037041

Cheers :ok:

Manston passenger flight start later this week for the summer season, which I understand are well booked, I think this year will see a major change in the fortunes of the airport, Cargo flights are on the up with more airlines coming in, and more charter flights this year.
I note also that a large Hotel is being built at the Prospect Inn site over 200 beds by the airport, someone thinks, Thanet is worth investing in, with the The Travel Lodge just opened at westwood and second one now being built just down the thanet way., I am sure all these bed are not for holidays at Margate.
Jet engine repair factory being built this year. so much going on.

Kent Escapes
 

All flights full for first week of operations!

i am in fact booked on the first week of the firs school summer holiday week with my family :).
I thin my flight might me full as i tryed to get my parent to go and rung up, with an attendant suggestng that there is only one placment left. I wonder whether most of the flights are like this:D

Hanger_ 9

Don't you feel that the first week of your school summer holiday would be
better spent suing your English teacher?! ;)

perhaps sue Microsoft for such poor quality keyboards that skip letters :=

Yes I had one of those!! :ok:

Try proof reading before hitting the send button!! - "a poor worker always blames his tools" is a saying that comes to mind

Thats it toptrumps thanks for link:cool: Maybe its that flying the Kent Escape flights:ok:

James

Not necessarially. They can apply to the Council for permission, have it refused and then appeal to the Government.

From the point of view of the Council this removes the control they have, and is not popular. At election time prospective Councillors may say they'll fight the airport etc, but once in office they might not find it so easy!

Therefore controversial planning applications tend to go through with conditions, S106 agreements etc attached. However big companies know this and will have reflected it in the original application.

106 Agreement
 

Infratil dont need to agree a new one.

The Manston neggies dont need one because the airport doesnt have a hope!!

The Manston supporters dont need to worry because the airport can operate up to to 600,000 pax without a renewal.

Where is the problem.

Next!

MDIS

Agreed !!
I think this one has been flogged to death now:ugh:

Heard a rumour that a P28A landed at EGMH today with two Mars Bars on board. Is this a new Freight Operator? :E :E :E

funny that you chose this topic as it was a marathon of a journey and the bounty on board was a bit of a drifter:p

UK airports takeover activity??
 

Google alert for Infratil.

Infrastructure and airports investor Infratil was up 1.5 percent at NZ$6.10, buoyed by takeover activity in the U.K. airports sector, where it has investments.

Have I missed something??

MDIS

Interesting statement from Matt Clarke about Manston/Infratil, in an article about the recently started Kent Escapes program.

Full story

Here is the full story off yesterdays first passager flight:ok: http://www.kentinternationalairport-...Sunseekers.asp . Looking good that Infratil have a 20 year plan.

Regards
James

The Eastern Block Countries used to have 5 year plans and look where it got them.
Naturally Kent Escapes are optomistic, they're undoubtedly getting what amounts to a s near to a "free ride" from Manston as any operator could hope to get.

Whatever happens this year, the Kent travelling public will not tolerate the future price rises Manston will have to impose to break even (never mind make a profit).
The clients for the type of trade Manston could only aspire to attract vote with their wallets first, make it cheap and they'll be there - but with no profit for the airport, increase prices and they'll be off to Gatwick and Stansted.

Either way Manston loses.

Yeah yeah yeah

Here we go again ... :mad:

But this is not the The Eastern Block Countries :ugh: You ever support Manston or you dont and we know who they are so can we just move on please:D :ok:

James

Actually I would love Manston to do well, just as I would any other avaition enterprise.

However, I've been in the aviation business for a long long time, I've seen airlines and airports come and airlines and airports go.

I've got a very good idea of what it takes to make an airport work, I know that the board of Infratil have taken a huge risk with Manston and in my opinion, it hasn't paid off.
They did a fantastic job with Prestwick, but Manston isn't Prestwick and never ever will even get near to the success that it is, it's like comparing Morrisons with the local village shop.

You can have as much freight as you like at Manston, but the income it brings in is peanuts compared with what it costs on a daily basis to keep the airport running.
Landing fees won't cover costs so Manston needs passengers and terminal franchises, and lots of them.

Infratil have had several years to get this sorted and I think their board must now realise that they simply don't have the customer demand to make it a vaible enterprise.

I applaud optomism but I also can't help feeling that there are an awful lot of posters here who are very well intentioned, but completely ignorant of commercial reality.

I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

Just seen that the Conservatives have retained control of Thanet District Council will this effect Manston at all?

Regards
James

Niknak
I also have been in and around aviation for many years too and happen to think that Manston is a little gem - waiting to be polished!
You say that Infratil have done a great job with Prestwick and yet take away Ryan Air and you have an airport very similair.
Of course along with a popular loco comes a lot of passengers and then along comes those magic franchises that you talk about.
You also fail to mention that as well landing fee's that there is a handling charge per pallet and fuel uploads, which generally amount to 100 tonnes per flight.(b747)
So in that respect, Manston isnt that far away.

Blazing Air.

If it were only that simple.
The fact is that Ryanair saw the market for Prestwick as a cheap alternative to Glasgow and Edinburgh and Infratil encouraged them to develop the market there very quickly and that market will be there to stay.

Manston isn't a cheap alternative to anywhere, if fares are reduced it's because the airline has made a deal with the airport operator and other than the very limited season of current flights, there's absolutely no sign of any increase in passenger figures for the future.

I would also contend that to attract the freight to Manston, Infratil have had to offer a very good deal regarding the handling charges, no doubt they cover their costs and make a small profit, but not enough to make it viable in the long term.

The fact remains that Manston's passenger catchment area is also Gatwick's and Stansted's in terms of commercial viability, as much as I'd like to see Manston's gem polished, I don't believe anyone has a big enough duster to make it shiney enough.

... a dignified response, i guess only time will tell

Very Interesting,

If .... just if.....Manston turns to pax in 2008 with No`s in the EU Jet figures for the first year, with MK keeping status quo and Cargo Lux increasing.

Will we still be comparing as such? or talking in terms of other possible negative problems?

I am sure some...., will have a comprehensive informative response.

Billy.

Theres more than that ready for 2008 if all goes to plan !