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Originally Posted by Parsnip
Is that definite, that they've found a new use for the LHR slots?
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I don't know how much you know about the airports owners, whilst all losses are of course undesirable, £10m quid is not big spuds to Peel Holdings |
At last-Brilliant Marketing
Paarmo International-its a winner!! The IQs of low cost punters and the expertise of travel agents combined might just work? Sell Seal Sands as quality destination up and coming with free condoms(as per a previous contributer)and people may just fall for the new Majorcan(NE) destination...at least for one season!! Even the marketing deartment at DTV might be convinced???Could pay the leccie bills for the runway lights?
(its a joke-honestly) |
Even if this does go through, as you said, bmi won't do it, not necessarily because we're taking them to court, but because they've already found new use for our slots pug The airports side actualy comes under Peel Airports, in the Peel Holdings umbrella. |
If the Government do protect the regional airports links to Heathrow then I would expect a number of slots will be taken for these routes and the routes offered on a PSO basis and there would then be a competitive tender process where airlines bid for the PSO contracts, similar to what happens in Scotland and Ireland. Whether bmi would bid for any of these remains to be seen, but there are a few other airlines which I'm sure would be interested, such as Loganair, Flybe and Eastern.
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mmetesside
I really wouldn't build up your hopes too much on this, political rhetoric ! "...that they will look at measures to safeguard.." says little and commits to bog all , (though sounds good!). It's all down to a failing government desperately trying not to further alienate it's voters ! Can you really believe that prior to the construction (if ever of R3) slots currently used by "heavy Jets" being given up for some Eastern, Loganair commuter prop. job ? If nothing else who is going to compensate BAA for lost pax revenues ? |
Pug "That is worrying considering Peels ruthlessness at developing land.
which brings us nicely round to the point I have made in all my previous posts Peel Holdings acquired Teesside Airport for the ultimate purpose of development as either a major business /industrial park, or as a housing site.They envisaged a very healthy profit on the deal and are quite happy to sit around until the economic climate improves You will see it happen in your lifetime, as ,sadly , will I |
They envisaged a very healthy profit on the deal and are quite happy to sit around until the economic climate improves |
As an "Outsider", but working at MACC [Manchester Radar], I am passing to MME (at the most) 4 inbound a/c per shift...plus the outbounds too of course.
DSA, get 3-4 ins and outs, whereas.. LBA busy, but "peaky" , NCL, "ticking over", but tfc on the up and as for HUY.... KLM, and the odd charter, and that's it. I know that it's only March... but where is the chuffin' traffic????? |
As a matter of interest Chiglet, what does your radar see and what's filtered out in resect of DTVA traffic, primary and secondary?
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KLM
Heard today that an employee of a large company and regularly flies between MME and Oslo via Amsterdam, has been told he can't do this from September as KLM are stopping the service between MME and AMS...
This can't be true, can it? Still on the website as bookable, so I have my doubts, but why would he be told this? Someone please tell us some good news. |
Nothing would surprise me anymore.
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Bol
Does not matter what our Radar sees, it's the amount of IFR traffic that we handle in/out of said A/f. Yes, I know that Flight Refuelling/Calibrator operate from MME, and they "sometimes" work the Mil..but at the end of the day, the have X rotations to AMS and 2-6 Charters to the Costas, I honestly cannot see a "future" for them..... But I am just an 'umble ATC'r...what do I know? |
Parsnip, old root vegetable, you are a natural born cynic.Peel actually have an airports division and I believe they genuinely wanted to run an airport operation. When they took over the future looked rosy and the profits endless.However, things have taken a turn for the worse and they are pumping money into the airports without any prospect of return in the forseeable future. Their problem was not in starting the airports division but who they have employed to run it.
Skyman stop being pretentious.Just because I fly on holiday does not make me any less of a soothsayer than you. I have also done more than my fair share of souless business flying as well and in fact have logged as many hours as most who are not employed in the flying business. My point was that the holiday companies are due a bumper harvest this summer and will as all companies do look to expand to show their shareholders they are getting value for money. This is where MME has to step in but on past form I don't hold out much hope. |
Can't see a 'bumper harvest' for the Holiday companies. It's more a question of demand falling by less than feared. There are fewer companies offering fewer holidays so it's hard to see that as an opportunity for airports. Also I suspect Winter 2009-10 will be very tough as people will be cutting back on additional holidays and it's easier to avoid the Euro in the Summer than the Winter.
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mmeman
Tell your mate all is not lost, he can go with Eastern via Aberdeen to Oslo from Teesside |
via SVG........;) oh, except on a Fri.
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Paarmo
I am I confess completely cynical about Peel Holdings. I am 100% convinced about the companies' future plans because I have observed what they do and how they operate, and because, without giving away more than is appropriate on an anonymous forum, I have had considerable experience of Developers in my time, and considerably more experience of watching big ideas on Teesside coming to nothing. I have spent many happy hours flying in and out of the Airport, and started my affair with aviation with my nose pressed against the perimeter fence watching the Lightnings blow the grass off the strip in the sixties. I would love nothing better than to see a full holiday programme this summer and decent scheduled services to a dozen or more major cities, I don't however believe that Peel share the same vision. |
A to A?
looking at the deps board it looks like you can no longer fly to destinations that begin with anything other than A
Aberdeen, Alicante, Amsterdam b b |
Parsnip
I too am a cynic, but back to basics & from where does your concern arise ? This redevelopment of land issue probably arose from mischievous postings on this thread "way back" & circumstantial evidence linked to events at Sheffield. The problem with DTV is that your early cynicism is actually becoming more of a self fulfilling prophesy. As I have noted earlier Peel Holdings (Airports) Ltd "Peel" recorded a £10M loss ( Mar 08) on turnover of £50M i.e. 20% which depicts a serious mess even in 2007 prior to the current market downturn. I am unable to comment as to whether Peel have addressed this loss though given that the three major cost centers LPL, DCS & DTV continue to trade (in DTV's case with less revenue) in what has become a difficult market with falling pax. & rising costs for security & APD then eventually something has to give. An obvious business scenario to stem losses without any comfort of external support is to reduce no. of cost centers & reallocate resources available i.e. address the issue of disposals to refinance ( £48M debt falling due within one year ). Now I can't believe that Peel have not looked into this, whether a partial or total disposal is possible & as to what investment would be effectively written off. My guess is that this is simply not a palatable option, & with political implications & other local factors then things have been allowed to drift on. Now this is purely my take on the situation, but it goes someway to explaining the apparent disinterest & indeed inability of Peel to contribute further capital at DTV for airport related projects. In the end though something will have to give, that is, unless the optimism (and depth of pockets) of the Peel Holdings main board as to future prospects in continuing to provide finance for its loss making airports subsidiary, incorporates a lengthy period of time way beyond that viewed by the contributors on this thread. |
Skyman
This is how I see it . Peel came along at a time when the local authorities couldnt really afford to run the Airport any longer. Their bid was put in at a bargain basement rate on condition that the Taxpayer, i.e the government office , development agencies and what have you, put in cash and resources to match Peels investment and on the back of a grandiose plan to create a Freight Village similar to the earlier failed effort of a company called (I think) Moorfield Semley who have since disappeared from the radar. Behind this was the cynical and shrewd reasoning in the Manchester Boardroom that should the aviation industry suffer a downturn here was a very large flat site which could easily be turned to a variety of uses. We have now arrived at a situation where two locos have been ,seen and not conquered , and one of the 2 mainstay routes has ceased to operate after a couple of sucessful decades. Add to that what seems to be very little interest being shown by the "bucket and spade" operators and the installation of a "puppet management team" controlled from Manchester and you have all the signs of a business which is following Woolworths and the Dunfermiline building society. Peel Holdings however still have a lump of estate which has roads, power and gas to it which, in the good times that will eventually follow the recession, can turn a very good profit. |
Parsnip,
Yes I can accept all that you say, & indeed it may be that DTV as a cost centre has not, historically contributed a great amount on an annual basis to Peels trading loss, this perhaps being more down to finance costs due to the debt that has arisen elsewhere. As such then perhaps Peel are in a much stonger position than I have previously given them credit to be able to bide their time.:confused: The thing that erks me the most is that Peel appear to have condoned the appointment of the most inappropriate, ill qualified & inexperienced motley crew of "non achievers" as ever assembled to run an airport anywhere with predictable consequences. That Peel appear to accommodate such poor management at DTV (even the board had a clear out last year !) is witnessed as they have moved the strategic positions over to Manchester, whilst leaving the :8lunatics:8 living in their own little world back at DTV to run the asylum. |
Not to sound like Gareth Southgate too much, the rights and wrongs behind the current position MME finds itself in is a debate for another day...what is important is making sure the flying public of Teesside to begin flying from MME.
Why haven't the Evening Gazette/local councils/DTV advertising department (or is that more specifically the desk in the corner of the office?) begun a campaign to encourage people to fly local rather than the futile call for the reinstatement of LHR-MME as I think this will be the only thing to actually alert people that there are still destinations you can fly to from DTV as all the negative press of route cuts will only just cause more passengers to go from NCL and LBA, bringing about the sad demise of a once (small) but successful regional airport altogether. Talking of which, I see FR are starting ALC and GRO tomorrow..atleast that makes the lack of LHR on the departure board!!However, I wonder how sales are doing as I imagine the man down the pub will simply think after the DUB announcement, 'Ryanair have left Teesside' much like when bmibaby left and people presumed BD had too. |
arrivals/departures board
another A spotted this morning...Armageddon !
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another A spotted this morning...Armageddon ! |
MME4eva Why haven't the Evening Gazette/local councils/DTV advertising department (or is that more specifically the desk in the corner of the office?) begun a campaign to encourage people to fly local.... as DTV's marketing department is also run by the :8 Lunatics !:8 |
I'm a bit out of touch here - did the final Heathrow leave on Saturday, and was it marked in any way?
Teesside was one of the best stations in terms of ground staff, well-run and tight-knit. This is all utterly unbelievable. On reflection, when Midland started the LHR-GLA/EDI/BFS routes circa 1983, suddenly Teesside wasn't the premier route anymore, despite it's high-yield traffic. Our aircraft used to get "nicked" by ops on a regular basis to fly ten passengers to Belfast, rather than fifty interliners on the 333, so that the company did not lose face in front of BA. What's happened, ultimately, is the logical conclusion of this policy. |
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MMEman
Seems your recent rumour on PPRune about KLM withdrawing from MME has been quoted word for word in today’s Northern Echo, as well as reaching staff at the airport. Never thought I’d ever see the day when a local journo printed anything other than the media spin supplied by MME, so good for him for following it up.
The article goes on to say :- A spokeswoman for KLM said yesterday: “We are cancelling some destinations, and I understand everybody is talking about these things because of the difficult times. “But there is absolutely no talk of cancelling the AMS-MME route.” Robin Tudor, from Peel Airports, which owns the airport, has also said KLM would “definitely not” go. |
Well in view of recent postings reflecting doom & gloom & various levels of accrimony I'd like to take this opportunity of placing on pprune today's press release abstracted from DTV's website with a view to addressing all the negativity that I have undoutedly contributed towards :-
The findings of a major survey announced today, showing Durham Tees Valley Airport is among the top ten in the country for customer satisfaction, ‘demonstrate that customers do want to fly from their local airport where personal service really counts.’ That is how Kerry Quinn, Airport Director, today welcomed the findings of the survey, the biggest of its kind, conducted by ‘Which? Holiday’ magazine where Durham Tees Valley achieved ratings ahead of its nearest neighbouring airports. In the key category of overall ‘airport experience’—which covered design of the airport, signage, flight information monitors, attitude and efficiency of staff—Durham Tees Valley achieved the top ‘five star’ rating, as it did with the ‘time and distance’ category from security to the boarding gate, getting through security and from check-in to security. Passengers questioned in the survey also gave the airport high ratings for parking facilities, check-in arrangements, airside amenities and return waiting times. Said Kerry, “At a time when regional airports are going through a challenging period, it is very encouraging to receive such a strong vote of confidence from passengers. The findings of the survey underline the strong support we know exists for the airport amongst people across the region—and the efforts everyone involved with the airport puts in to make travelling as easy and as comfortable as we can. “We are constantly looking at ways in which we can make the ‘airport experience’ even better and as we continue to expand—as we surely will in the years ahead despite the current economic difficulties—we aim to improve in all areas, including, for example, providing more shopping facilities. |
Sadly, I find myself gravitating towards the 'Master Plan' theory that has been aired before on this thread. Whilst the airport management have taken plenty of knocks on here, there is perhaps some skill required in managing an airport DOWN while at the same time making it NOT look like your fault that traffic ceases or operators leave and keeping the costs of said downwards management to a minimum (including the marketing budget) until such time as a line can be drawn regarding acceptable losses, the lights are switched off, the doors locked and the whole site transferred to the development department.
In that respect, the DTV Management Team seem to have done rather well, and not long to go now to root out the remaining traffic through 'unavoidable' redistribution of fixed operating costs. |
Let this be a lesson to you all. KLM are not leaving the airport. There is absolutely no truth in the rumour that the airport will only operate during daylight hours after the end of October and a satisfaction survey puts Teesside at the top of the satisfaction league.All losses of flights are absolutely nothing to do with the airport and are due entirely to national and international conditions.
Signed Kerry ( L*** L*** B*** O* F***) Quinn. P.S. I'm still on the payroll here despite all predictions of my demise. ( No I don't know how either ) |
Looks as though Air Southwest will be operating to London City from May 26th with Dash 8's.
See here for a press release. :ok: |
:D :} :} :} Nice One :} :} :} :D
:ok: ALMOST HAD ME GOING :ok: |
haha april fools. good one but as soon as i hovereed ove the link and saw tinyurl i knew somet was up :p
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Paarmo
Supposidly 80 to 90K and no its not a joke. |
I know April fools was Wednesday the Ist am, but why are DTVA advertising Easy jet to Madrid and Milan on the DTVA web site? Has the computer been hacked into?
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Can't see that on the site but the KLM statement seems to be unequivocal that they are staying and are continuing at the present 3 flights a day.I think Kerry must have called in some favours from KLM for them to issue such a strong statement so quickly after the rumours started. Kerry is quoted as saying she is happy too.As KLM are first out on a morning and often last in at night it would appear that the airport will continue to offer the same hours for the forseeable future.
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Must of been a computer problem like the bears last weekend. Perhaps an advert that should of been on the Liverpool site?
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paarmo I think Kerry must have called in some favours from KLM..... Kerry is quoted as saying she is happy too |
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