BFS or BHD won't work with Eastern I don't think.....

Only routes that I could see working are:

BRS/NQY joint with Air Southwest - not sure they would take this on, with them serving LBA and MAN also, though?

Rome - as others have said, possibly one for GSM to look at, 3 or 4 times a week would suffice

Madrid - 2 or 3 times a week, possibly one for Ryanair to look at with their new Madrid base

Geneva - hopefully GSM will take this on in the winter, or maybe Chambery/Lyon/Grenoble. Also note we will have a weekly CMF with TOMfly!


And some notes on current routes....

Heathrow - we need bmi to look at the times of this, different times (early departure to LHR around 0600-0630) - although things are starting to look up for them. They could push Heathrow transfers a bit more (eg to Middle East) and maybe their new partnership (soon?) with Bmed may allow them to do this.

Amsterdam - KLM look to be doing very well indeed on this route, and as previously said they are adding a 4th daily for the first half of the summer, presumably as some sort of test.

Aberdeen - this route is going from strength to strength and is a prime candidate for upgrade to Saab 2000, or a 5th daily flight. Surely a Saturday flight could be introduced on this route.

Brussels - seems to be doing ok, but I really can't see this lasting past the end of next summer

You've missed my point - just that EVERY thread seems to be looking at Flybe and they've got more than enough on their plates!

Not going to say Flybe, but an operator with 70 seat aircraft could do Gatwick, Belfast and Paris twice a day. It is this type of operation that brings in the business pax that bring the higher yields, maybe something bmibaby lacked. On top of that they could do a summer service into Newquay say 4 a week along with a Jersey in the summer 3 a week supporting the GSM weekly service.
Then you have Rome which at its peak was seeing more pax than the LHR has seen at times recently. Its got to come back in some form but once a day wouldn't hurt.
MME4eva I do feel the Gatwick is needed as there is no link to the south coast but also it may give bmi the kick up the a**e on the LHR either that or push them off which may not be that bad if there is already a LGW

Two things:-

1) The Skyteam schedule now shows KLM reverting back to 3 times a day for the summer with 2 x F70 and 1 x F100.

2) Anybody got any definitive news on the basing of the TOM aircraft this summer? Everyone says it won't be here, but that still isn't reflected in any schedules or official announcements.

Ryanair are re introducing the Wednesday Dublin flight, but it looks like just for the month of May.

I see at the moment the bmi flights to LHR are still at 3 a day and the 12.45 flight to LHR is now retimed to 11.40. Is the 4th rotation going to start again with the early morning flight to LHR?

In the latest edition of flightlines it does state that Thomson Holidays will be operating to 12 destinations, but does this mean with Thomsonfly as the airline?? I see there are adverts for Thomsonfly flights in the Darlington area, but advertising flights from Newcastle. Why not advertise their holidays from Durham Tees Valley instead! :*

Ryanair relaunching the Wednesday Dublin flight is encouraging, even if it is just for one month. Shame about KLM Cityhopper abandoning their fourth AMS rotation for a second time, they seem keen, I think that must be more to do with aircraft availablility. Still, at least we'll be getting an F100!

It states twelve TOM routes in Flightlines? I got an e-mail from DTVA about two months prior to the release of the latest Flightlines stating that Thomsonfly would be flying to eleven destinations this summer?

Regards.

Well it seems that the Thomsonfly aircraft base for the summer is safe (for this summer at least) and that it is just the crew base that is shutting, I think what saved our aircraft is the fact that LBA is shutting and therefore they couldn't shut 2 within close distance!

The crews will be working out of NCL instead I guess, and it is the NCL crews that will be flying the MME flights also.

Well I suppose that's a good thing. I'd rather have the enemy flying the aircraft than the aircraft flying with the enemy.

Regards.

Well I sorted through all of the summer schedules, and we have 115 weekly flights this summer, some of the hotspots have a number of weekly flights, such as Palma with 12.

Some of the good points:
- KLM stays 3x daily but the 1537/8 gets a F100 every day.
- bmi run 3x daily A319/A320 (1 A319 on Sat), no flights by 'regional' ERJ's.
- Holidays4U flight to DLM with OHY runs all throughout the summer.
- MYT to Ibiza, run by JKK, moves from Friday night to morning.
- Goldtrail continue to run 2 flights on a Thursday night to BJV/DLM with OHY.
- XL Airways take over Libra's Wednesday morning flight to LCA.

A few bad points:
- FCA/TCX Monday evening flight to Dalaman (op PGT) now doesn't run
- Varna is cancelled again with TOMfly

' bmi run 3x daily A319/A320 (1 A319 on Sat), no flights by 'regional' ERJ's.'

All flights will operate with Regional ER4's this summer !
4 x daily ex Sat (Sat ops x 1)

1 x weekly REU charter on a Monday afternoon with LBA based A320.

Not what Amadeus shows for May, it's still shows 3x daily 319/320

Scott

Whats more of a concern to me is that i flew from LHR to MME this Thursday gone on the 20:05 BD340 on an A320 an there was just 48 passengers and i only paid the grand sum of £0 plus taxes (although i did check in on line to save a little bit more for them), i overheard the steward saying that they had taken just £14 - i presume this was through the onboard sales and there were just four people in departures when i got off - i presume again for the return journey. i know its been talked about till the death but they cant sustain this and need to re-examine what was once a very popular route and put it right (times etc) - yes i understand their reason for all of this is a slot protector at LHR but why kill off one of their longest serving Domestic routes for it. Also someone i know on here flew on the maiden flight from MME to Gerona last week - only 13 pax on the inbound, to be expected, but a healthy 140+ on the outbound, has the rest of the week gone/looking well and what are forward load figures if anyone knows?

The passenger figures have been awful on the LHR route for a while now, if they had a re-think, looked at the times and maybe re-introduced business class (which they are rumoured to be doing) then it may have a future. I do think however that domestic routes as a whole do not have a very good future, especially the shorter ones such as LBA, NCL, MAN and MME as they cannot compete against the train any more. The only thing that they are useful for is connections to long haul routes.

Good to hear the Gerona got off to a good start, lets hope it keeps that way.
There was a rumour going around of Wizz looking to start Corfu and Borugas from MME but the same rumour stated that they would start next month, which doesn't fit in with Wizz's route launches which are usually about 8 months in advance! Maybe March 2008!

As for Flyglobespan this summer, well I believe there is still a single gap in the schedule on a Tuesday afternoon, highly rumoured to be a gap for the Tenerife but this has turned out to be not so. The Saturday flight to Mahon doesn't fit into the schedule as it stands at the moment, but a simple change of the times would allow it to slot in on the Saturday morning instead.
Does anyone know what the 2 aircraft types to be based are? Has been rumours of an -800 and a -600.

mmeteesside -I do think however that domestic routes as a whole do not have a very good future, especially the shorter ones such as LBA, NCL, MAN and MME as they cannot compete against the train any more. The only thing that they are useful for is connections to long haul routes.
In the case of MME I have to agree. These days given LHR's current problems, no one of their own choice would elect to go anywhere via LHR. In the case of NCL those that do & significantly support the BA NCL-LHR route consist of considerable no.'s of pax connecting to onward 'one world alliance' flights at beneficial fares / flight timings. Other connecting pax with more choice would probably choose to connect via other European hubs, and more frequent timings of such flights which again make NCL that more attractive. I would suggest that it is not a case of frequency alone that affects MME - LHR loads more that it is simply not a BA operation. Historically this has always been the problem with this route dating back as far as Autair in the 60's, I don't see that the train service has any greater or lesser effect as it did back then.

"In the case of MME I have to agree. These days given LHR's current problems, no one of their own choice would elect to go anywhere via LHR."
-----------------

That's why we make every long haul from MME via Schipol to anywhere in the world.

I've seen this arguement about domestic flights used a number of times - but does anybody have any evidence to support it e.g what proportion of pax to LHR transit? I don't use it as much as I used to but the NCL-LHR-NCL flghts I used to go where always packed, and just from watching where the rest of the pax went when they got off and converstions in the Exec lounge (which is where BA presumbly make their money) I wouldn't have said that anything like a majority were transiting.

For me, the train is only competitive if you're going city centre to city centre (and it's easier to park at NCL than the Central station).

Although i dont use LHR-MME-LHR that often, prob 4-5 times per year (sometimes more) i use it simply to visit family and friends up here. I live just outside of London and its much quicker and cheaper than the train (in terms of crossing Ldn to Kings Cross by tube and then the train to Darlington) and in terms of driving the journey is 4hrs + on a good run on a late weekday evening so for me i always choose to fly and i do the same if i go to visit friends in Leeds or Manchester - the train just doesnt match in terms of price, reliability, comfort, speed, availabilty of a seat - only minor positive point is that i can go from nearer my home to nearer my destination due to location of airports but the time saving is not too significant and the car costs just as much, is a big stressful strain doing all that driving, adds many miles to the mileage and the only plus point is i can take more luggage but for a weekend or even up to a week who needs it - except maybe at Christmas. If BMI ever axed LHR-MME i for one would be worse off on any journey i make - i reckon others would be in the same boat as me. In terms of transiting, whilst obvious plus points of a BA feeder onto the BA network BMI is part of the large star alliance network so transiting passengers have plenty of choice through LHR! plus i dont think Flybe, for example, would say the domestic market is dead in the water.

Mme-gro
 

Just returned from a few days in Barcelona going out on the inaugral flight on Tues coming back today (Saturday). As UkLad007 states, the first inbound from GRO was carrying only 13 pax which i thought was actually quite good given that this route will rely massively on outbound pax. Load factors on both legs were approx 90%. In fact Tues flight had 165 pax exactly as overheard servisair check in agent discuss this with the Dublin pax service agent who said there was 84 pax on the DUB which I was pleasantly surprised by given it was a tues and outside school holidays etc.

Back to GRO I'm very confident that this will be a success even after it starts from NCL as I think FR's aggressive prices will always attract pax from the NCL area if the NCL flight is more expensive and its finally a route that offers what MME pax want...a city break popular with stag do's etc and on the door step of bucket and spade destinations like tossa del mar and estartit.

As for LHR the words flooding and market spring to mind as anyone will know that there is not the demand for the number of LHR flights currently on offer but i'm sure that Bmi can make a good go of it with a refocus on what they are offering as when i flew this route a lot in the late 90s it was always popular even after the days of diamond service passed!!

On any 'point to point' route there will always be those that live or have interests near either the point of departure or the destination to lend support that in some cases domestic air travel provides advantages over the train. What I am suggesting is that given the earlier comments as to the noted low load factor on the LHR - MME then historically there has not been enough support from all sections of the community to lead to growth in this service. The issue of train availability to London is largely an irrelevance in this particular discussion as it has always been available as a viable alternative. To pick up on perhaps a more relevant angle on the point of those that use the service as a convenience due to locality, perhaps such pax. are more price sensitive and will only take up seats at the lower end of the routes fare structure.

I travel once or twice a week to London for work from Darlington. Because the first flight doesn't get to London until 09.35, I am forced to use the train. I will be using the 05.50 bmi departure when it is running, but it is just for 2 weeks. I have to add I think the train is expensive, over £100 single if you wish to arrive in London before 10, and has been unreliable recently, twice having to get buses to/from Peterborough due to overhead line damage. (this may persuade some people to try the plane again?) I still think that with the right timings MME-LHR would be popular. Maybe a 4/5 times a day EMB-145 maybe the answer, I don't know.

On a positive note, I see the road signs are being changed over to say Durham Tees Valley Airport, about time too!

The simple fact of the matter is that BMI have the timings wrong on the LHR service. The business man, like mmeman states will use the train with the current timings on the route. I know of people who have used the flight upto 3/4 times a month who now either have to rush into the center of london or have to use the train, genrally they use the train. Remember if you need to be in the center of London before 10am there is only one sure way of doing it and thats the train (ok power line failures etc aside). Not only that the minimum time door to door from where I live to the center of London is around 2hrs 50mins on the plane if you leave checking in till the last minute, run for the train from LHR to center of London etc... and 2hrs 40mins on the train including drive to station etc. Ok I'm in the position that I live to the west of both the airport and Darlington but the train does compete no matter what anyone says. The annoying facts for the LHR service are that it is capable of around 16,000-20,000 pax a month with correct pricing and correct timings with a good frequency. I'm not suggesting a low cost operation just a return to the timings of say 8 to 10 years ago without the messing around of the schedules every 6 months and say 4 return flights a day with the correct equipment (A319/320) and a return of business class as well. Its not much to ask for. The connections through LHR have also been effected by the later timings making early morning state side flights harder to connect to. It is no coincidence that the AMS has increased since the LHR timings have been played with! So the argument that the reason why the flight is suffering is because the service is not operated by BA is not accurate. Another fact maybe causing a drop in pax numbers is the fact that business today does not need to be face to face anymore but is now done electronically, either over the phone or computer so there is less need to travel. This is one argument that i'm not comfortable with but as i'm trying to be even I have decided to include it.

Onion , Can't disagree with most of what you say bar one point. I do not accept that the withdrawal of business class in what remains a 'non Loco' operation has any material effect upon load factors. There are solutions to this, one of which is operated by the BA 'Y' NCL-LHR & that is to reserve the front few rows of the aircraft for VIP's, premium & frequent flyers. This solution would not appear to cause BA any further issues.

Totally agree with MMEman and Onion-I think what is at the heart of the MME-LHR problem is the following:

timings-need to a) stay consistent to help build up frequent passengers using the service as there is no doubt there IS the demand out there b) be attractive to both business and transfer pax. (shouldn't be too hard to work more closely with Star Alliance partners and maybe use pax stats to see what are the most popular transfer routes i.e VS to JFK or wherever

equipment-its been touched on but sadly are the days of a domestic non lo-co A320/b737 operation behind us? Would there be anything wrong in bmi shuffling a few embraers about so that they served the more 'light' domestic routes as has been played with from MME and LBA. Then the 48 pax that Uklad travelled with goes from a 25% load factor to near 100% and the A320s can work the more denser routes.

advertising-still pitiful really. yes the Tynes Tees ads are a plus but NO mention of the fact its the MME-LHR route theyre advertising!!

I think what the one thing that is needed here is CONSISTENCY....sadly something bmi seem incapable of across their business.

Yes, timings are a major problem on the London Heathrow route, but the real reason the route has flopped to such extents as it has, is because of the knock-on effects of the WW pull-out. I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this sooner. I knew there would be severe knock-on effects, but I didn't know it would be so bad - and so quick to happen.

Like MME4eva said, yes, the Tyne Tees adverts are a good thing, but only if they state the route being advertised. It's the same with GSM, they plastered hundreds of advertisements across hundreds of Arriva and Stagecoach buses all over the north east, but not one mentioned that the destinations being advertised are from MME. You'd think common sense would tell the advertising people to display the origin and destination airports on the actual ads?!

bmi LHR
 

Looks like the bmi flights to LHR remain at 4 daily for the summer, but annoyingly (for me anyway!), the 4th flight is the 21.50 departure from MME and first flight from MME is at 07.55.

I wonder how many of the general public think that there are no flights from MME to LHR since the airline pulled out of their other routes. Several people have said to me that there are no flights to LHR now.
I've had to correct them.

Exactly Lancelot37! I've had to correct people too, I'd go as far as to say about 90% of people assume London Heathrow went along with all the other bmibaby routes. Well annoying.

Just playing devils advocate, but if Open Skies goes through as it is at present, do bmi want MME-LHR to be a success?

Lot easier for them to switch the slots to some lucrative trans-atlantic service if nobodies using the service or knows it's operating...

Wasn't it bmi who insisted on the name change from Teesside International Airport to Durham Tees Valley? Where is the Valley?

Such a silly name and no-one recognises it. It's no where near Durham. Try booking a ticket from PER to Durham Tees Valley and they say that it doesn't exist. Ask for Teeside International and it comes up on their computer.

Time to change the name again as it hasn't worked.

No, it wasn't.

YS

Apparently the thinking behind the Durham Tees Valley name was somehow connected with Durham Raleigh Airport in the US.

Well well well, looking at the bmi schedule for the summer it shows the first flight up from LHR, and the last one back down (330/345), as an ER4, which arrives at MME at 0730, departing at 2150......are they planning some more routes from MME operated by regional? I looked at the schedule for May, 2 separate weeks and it was the same....do they know something we don't?

If they are planning some more routes, then it would need to be probably around 3 returns a day to fill one aircraft up, and in that case JER has got to be a probable one. For the other 2, well ABZ and AMS spring to mind as possibilities.

I think that would be logical. They should go for LCC routes that GSM aren't likely to touch.

If they hadn't pulled the CDG base, that would have been a dead cert, BFS could be a good one too.

Perhaps we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves here though?

Name Change
 

I certainly do not believe the name should be changed back to Teesside, it has taken this long to change the road signs to Durham Tees Valley! The reasoning behind it, which I believe is sound reasoning, is to make it sound more attractive to increase the number of inbound passengers and I think it was coupled with tourism organisations using the term too. If you actually look around so many more companies are using the 'Tees Valley' name, and the welcome signs on the roads to Darlington say 'Gateway to the Tees Valley'. It is certainly not just the aiport using the term. And this idea that it is no where near Durham, who said Durham City? The airport is actually half in the county of Durham, so why shouldn't the airport be called Durham Tees Valley. It could be such a strong brand, with the St George Flag too. I still think the airport still needs to educate a lot of people though that the name has changed. It can be very confusing, cabin crew calling the airport Durham Teesside, pilots still call it Teesside in cabin announcements, departure bords still saying Teesside (Dublin and Gatwick were examples). Still work to do, but no way should it be changed back.

mmeteesside
Read my post #50. All LHR services will be operated by Regional ER4's.

The 330 turns round as the 331,as do the 332/333, 338/339 and 340/345.
The same aircraft ops the 330/1/2 & 3 then another aircraft will op the 338/9/40 & 45.
The Monday afternoon REU charter will op with the LBA based A320 on a 'W' pattern I.E. LBA-REU-MME-REU-LBA.

We'll disagree, but that's life. The name change has done nothing but cause confusion which you admit in your posting.

I'm currently in Australia for three months. I've been searching for flights and connections from MME for friends out here and the frustration is unbeleivable. At least Tesside International was known, and still is, throughout the world.

Durham Tees Valley - DTV - you're telling me!

So are we saying the A319 has been dropped on the MME-LHR service? That's a big blow if so but i suppose the airline are cutting their cloth accordingly after poor performance even if they themselves are at the root of that problem!

as for bmi regional starting other services i very much doubt this happening as:

AMS/ABZ-logical routes but already served by T3 and KL

CDG-could have been sensible but non starter as theyve pulled out...

having said that this is bmi were talking about so i'm going for SOU via CPT!!

On the current schedule, it looks as though all four LHR-MME-LHR flights can be operated on the same aircraft:

BD330 departs LHR 06:30 (arrive MME 07:30)
BD331 arrives LHR 09:15 (depart MME 07:55)
BD332 departs LHR 09:50 (arrive MME 10:55)
BD333 arrives LHR 12:40 (depart MME 11:25)
BD338 departs LHR 17:00 (arrives MME 18:05)
BD339 arrives LHR 19:45 (departs MME 18:40)
BD340 departs LHR 20:25 (arrives MME 21:25)
BD345 arrives LHR 22:55 (departs MME 21:50)

I may be missing something, but this must be operated by the same aircraft - an Embraer. It would be illogical to fly an Embraer up on the BD330, park it in MME all day and then operate back on BD345, then using an Airbus to operate the 331/332/333/338/339/340.

So yes, same as LHR-ABZ and LHR-HAJ, it looks as though the MME route will be an all-Embraer operation for this summer.

An extra Thurs flight to AGP with GSM has been put on sale. They are really building on their base at MME. Wonder if they'll keep the 2 A/C there fo W07. THeir W07 schedule is due out the end of this month/beginning of next.

I see the works on taxiways Charlie and Delta come to an end today, with attention switching to the Alpha taxiway until 28th March. Anyone know what these works are for, presumably something to do with lighting judging by the company who are involved?!

Looking at amadeus it is starting to show more ERJ's being used in the LHR schedule - and I think 4x ER4 is exactly what we need to get the route stabilised. bmi are lacking something in the 70-90 seat range that would be perfect for LHR-MME.

KLM on the other hand are keeping 3x daily (again) but upgrading the teatime 1537/1538 to a F100, staying F70 on the other 2 daily flights.

Anyone know if Eastern are planning anything on the ABZ route? Seems to be doing very well, with a number of flights completely full, such as todays 587, tomorrows 587 and 589, and Fridays 587 are all full as they are not available to book.