If you are prepared to fly with FR, just wait until the end of the week and visit their website. You may be pleasantly surprised and may be able to book for January or whenever else you want to go. There are lots of other ways to travel instead of AGP - MAN, LPL, DUB, LON who all have very frequent ORK and ALC flights whih would make a connection very easy.

Aisle2c->The reason for the prices going up so close to the date is because leisure users rarely book a flight that's leaving in a few days time, while business users do it quite frequently. And as business users will usually pay a higher price, it's extracting the most money from them. Of course, it's dubious how many business users will use ORK-ALC, but that's the reason they go up.

As regards the politics. Fianna Fail had three vulnerable seats in the Cork region (SC, SW and NW). They lost two of them on a day that their vote held up nationally. Also the seat in North Central, which was safe has moved into the vulnerable list. The airport debt was a factor in their performance in the Cork region.

Ryan2000, I know it was badly supported, but what I was saying was that Aer Lingus managed that route badly.

FF were never likely to hold onto that 3rd seat, taken last time when the national boat was at its highest.

Considering how quiet they were during the election, what you say about the unions and airport staff has a ring of truth.

MUFC_fan, that's a very intriguing post ! I'll keep an eye on FR. My preference was always to travel Aer Lingus first but their race to the bottom has changed my views somewhat.

We used to do all the connections in the past (back in the days of £350 return flights with Stein Travel), but there is nothing better than a direct flight, especially with a small child.

840, that's the thing, ORK-ALC can't be much of a business destination yet their pricing didn't reflect that. When you are hitting €250 return in January, a couple of days before a flight, and you've only sold 33% of the seats, then there is something funadmentally wrong with your pricing structure.

I'd like to think the airport issue was a contributing factor (I went on the radio myself drawing attention to it !), but I have my doubts because FG/Lab etc didn't make it a campaign issue. They really backed off it.

I was told by one of the FG candidates (now a TD), that they couldn't make promises that they would clear the debt (as much as they would like to) because they didn't know what contracts/deals the Fianna Fail controlled DAA had signed with the FF government. They were afraid that if they made such a promise and got into power, they might find everything tied up to the extent that there was no way out of it. In retrospect, that was a mistake, especially considering Gantly, Murphy and Glucksman are all Michael Martin connected.

Some straight talking you have there, Aisle2c. Welcome to PPRuNe! Were yez all listening to the Joe Duffy Show today about the other place? They'd teach you a thing or two! If Cork had some of those boyos onside there would be not one but two daily JFKs from Cork!

What a laugh! Ha, ha!

There speaketh the truth, Tom ! Cork has been dragged down by a constant string of gutless politicians (from ALL parties), over the years, but the present lot must take first prize. If only we had a few of those Mid West boys, it would indeed shake things up down here.

Com'ere I was up in that new (?) Cork International Airport Hotel tonight. Very fancy indeed! Aircraft fuselage in the restaurant, Lufthansa aircraft seating in the lobby, Dyson slice handdryers in the loos, and that's just a taster of what there is!

Surprised by the total lack of marketing / promotion though. Or at least I'm unaware of any...

Charlie, the hotel had a soft opening a few weeks ago. A pretty impressive spot...seems like they let the interior designer off the leash and let him do whatever he liked! I must say that I like it...does not feel like an airport hotel at all in that it is very very distinctive and unlike most drab hotel interiors. But the aviation theme is worked in well and kudos for the effort. Hope the place does well, and I think it will.

The hotel had a front page ad in the Irish Times last Friday.

I guess in these times of so few developments any rumour is good...

I hear that there may be a service to Norwich in the offing. No real details. At this point, I'd assume it wouldn't be til summer 2008, because it would be an odd route to launch in winter. Couldn't even get word on the airline, but presumably Aer Arann or Flybe would have to be the possibles.

Does anyone know where the 40 acres for sale, are located at the Airport ? Bernard Allen has stated that the sale of the land could prevent any future expansion at the Airport.

Looks like EI may be overnighting only three planes at ORK next summer: The first LHR flight arrives at ORK at 0800 and departs 0845 for LHR.
The last ORK flight arirves at LHR 2245.
Is this a cost base issue?

The CAA should use the SNN/LHR controversy to their advantage. It is open to them to argue that a debt free ORK is more likely to retain the present selection of routes (including ORK/LHR) than if it is forced to increase charges to pay for the debt and thus embroiling the government in further controversy should, for example, EI decide to pull out of ORK/LHR.

Cork is to get the old Shannon schedule with Belfast getting Cork's current schedule. I heard it was also to do with the switch to an A321 on the route. Cork cabin crews are organised in A320 crews. In the case of sickness etc. it would be more complicated to be running 2 different aircraft types with different crewing arrangements, whereas A321s already overnight at LHR for the Dublin route.

Great news that Cork-LHR will again be 5 daily for next summer. The fifth rotation hadn't been in the schedules until the last few days.

It got a mention in the Aer Lingus thread. It's primarily a Heathrow slots issue. There's a general rejigging going on where Cork is getting Shannon's and Belfast is getting Cork's. That in turn is to get a competitive advantage over BD in Belfast.

some early T/As ex LHR will not be manageable with a 3 hour T1-T4 transfer window. At present it's possible to make BA98 (dep 1155) with the 0730 departure from ORK. With an 0845 dep time that and some other connections will be impossible.

I heard somewhere that EI is moving to T5 with BA. If they do they won't need such a long transfer window. However I'd have to agree that the new timetable won't be as good for connections as the existing timetable. It may result in more people transferring via Amsterdam.

In the drama of recent days the earlier post that FlyBe might consider a Norwich - Cork service has been in the shadows. Any opinions on the idea? Think a Thurs, Fri, Sun should be okay at least in summer time with some leisure traffic in both directions.

As for next summer's EI710 departing at 0845 hours - apart from late morning thin long haul flights from Heathrow with maybe just the one flight a day I think other connections should, generally speaking, be okay as most other flights ex LHR have a choice of departures.

Not that there is anything wrong with some extra connections being made at AMS!

Re transfer times, presently anyone coming from Asia tends to arrive in on the first flights into LHR, landing around 5am to 6am. In my case, I have plenty of time to make the 09:55 connection. But with the new schedule, I guess the first flight to ORK will be a bit too early. Not that I am complaining mind you.

EI will move to Terminal 3 with the {B]one[/B]world group, some BA ops and VS.
BD and the StarAlliance will be at T1/T2
SkyTeam and "other" carriers will be located at T4.
at least this is the plan. How soon it will happen, I dont know.
I think the new timings are OK. Perhaps not as ideal as the old schedule, but the flights are still well balanced throughout the day. Its a pity the last flight into ORK is not a few hours later though, as this flight (EI 725) is always very popular. Overall, however, I think yields might be slightly improved.

btw, will the flights still be crewed by ORK cabin crews? As I understand it all crews are trained on 320&321, and crews operate ORK-LHR-ORK-LHR and overnignt, so I guess there is no real reason why these flights would be crewed by DUB/SNN crews, unless they base a fifth a/c at ORK from next June.

Brian.

Wizz
 

Wizz has reversed the decision to terminate Cork-Gdansk from late September. It will operate twice weekly for the Winter.

Does that mean that we're not terrorists anymore ? :)

I must say I'm slightly miffed at the notion of not getting into LHR until 10am. That is really going to preclude us from the morning connections.

Maybe it'll make the EI112 more attractive from SNN and onward with Jetblue if neccessary.

I'm thinking more of flights to Germany, Scandanavia etc.

Back to today's question !!!

Does anyone know where the 40 acres for sale, are located at the Airport ? Bernard Allen has stated that the sale of the land could prevent any future expansion at the Airport.

Scandinavia and Germany are as well, if not better connected to Amsterdam than Heathrow. KLM flies to five destinations in Norway alone. The later Heathrow departure might restrict choice of flights, but it won't make a massive difference to the range of destinations.

Presumably its where the Cargo village was supposed to be built, on the other side of runway 07/25 from the terminal.

The 40 acres is much bigger than its name would suggest. It's situated at the South East end of the airfield. My understanding is that the land that might be sold off lies to the west of the field and could impact on 25/07 operations.

Only 2% of commercial flights use this runway. However it is capable of being extended to facilitate long haul operations which is why Cork County Council has restricted development to the west of the field at the request of Aer Rianta.

There is concern that the CAA/DAA might take a more short term view and sell the land to get off the hook on the debt issue.

I feared you were going to say that :(

I know the topic of extending the N/S runway and installing CAT3 etc has been beaten to death, but are you saying that the E/W runway (in line with prevailing winds!) has that potential? ie no falling away land etc etc..
JBS

re switch of timetables...ork getting snn's
 

do i understand right that ORK gets SNN's timetable

does that mean will have a 930pm ORK-LHR flight on a Sunday during "new time" then ?

what a great time slot....

Land certainly doesn't fall away on approach to 25 although the runway is very near landside. In any event CAT3 isn't even on the radar at Cork as managment keep pointing to the negligible number of diversions that could have been averted by having CAT3.

Not to mention how the diverted pax from Cork to, regularly, snn contribute to their overall passenger figures at the end of every year. A nice little boost that to the numbers from one DAA airport to another. Handy isn't it, not having CATIII at Cork! There are plenty times in any given period when the Cork RVRs hover around 250 metres with line traffic in the hold.

Just 2% of commecial traffic using runway 25/07 at Cork?

If runway 25/07 was 8000 feet long it would hosting 98% of Cork commerical traffic?

That would be too easy, of course.

What are the current runway lengths, and what would be an ideal extension for both, Tom ?

6998ft 17/35
4298ft 07/25

Extending 07/25 may draw some loud objections from new developments east of the airport who have only had to listen to props and light jets before rather than widebodies, and there is also one if not two roads to be dealt with and those back roads are getting busier all the time.

I don't believe the roads would be that much of an issue. I suppose where there's a will, there's a way..... Would that extension (to 8000) be costly ?

They needn't worry, Cork's operating costs will prevent any substantial capital investment in the airport for decades unless a radical change of direction occurs.

To be fair, any of the major infrastructural changes proposed by many of the contributors whilst have merit will take many years and probably decades to complete. The only realistic options are to upgrade the current ILS installations and in parallel start the necessary procedures for runway extensions and runway realignments not to mind the airport relocation as proposed by some. The argument on the location of Cork airport has been going on as long as there has been an airport in Cork.

Suggest CAA maximise the capacity and safety of the existing runways, generate the volumes (as a consequence the income) to justify major infrastructural development.

For example, is the lack of a direct trans-atlantic link from Cork to New York due to the lack of a business case for Continental (choosen as an example) to operate an ORK EWR route with a B757 which could operate within the existing infrastructure with two (and more) airports to divert to on the rare occasions when required or is it due to the lack of a CAT3 capability. Conditions exist in an given airport that regardless of CAT status require diversions. I recently had to be divert from ORD (as a passenger) but it is a reality of operating in a safe environment. Build the conditions to generate business and the income and the case to develop infrastructure will come.

How many / year
 

Ryan2000 - "In any event CAT3 isn't even on the radar at Cork as managment keep pointing to the negligible number of diversions that could have been averted by having CAT3."

Please - How many diversions a year?

It depends, for instance this year EI and FR have diverted only on a handful of occasions.

Once the CAT2 is available these airlines almost always get in as do Malev, Wizz, Central Wings and the Charter airlines

Most diversions occur when airlines are neither CAT2 capable or in one case refuse to carry out CAT 2 approaches at Cork.

Cork rarely goes below 300metres for very long as it's low cloud rather than thick fog that gives it trouble and the IAA mainatain that installing CAT 3 would not be justified.

I doubt very much if its an issue in relation to transatlantic.

The obstacled here is the proximity of Shannon and the legacy of the infamous stopover added to the fact that Cork people do not aren't as vocal in support of their airport as their mid-western counterparts