OK all, I work with construction people. The new runway needs be not more than 2500m (the odd freighters needing more can use the existing runway). So 2500m x 45m width x 3m depth is about 340,000 m3 of reinforced concrete. Add the taxiways and that is say 600,000 m3.

That is in no way a challenge for a major construction contractor in one year, it is basically a "muck out concrete in" job. The plans are drawn and the land is identified. It just needs starting. I believe in 1940 the RAF probably laid this much new runway each month, which was done mainly by hand with existing contractors and resources.

Yes but they were built in a rush and wouldn`t survive the hammereing that Stansted would give it
Runway 24R at Manchester was an old wartime runway and they have had to spend millions on rebuilding and strengthening

G-I-B

WHBM: Interesting figures to play with (might as well as I doubt whether I'll live to see it happen!)

If correct, 4bn for 2500m of runway plus bits seems toppy and taking two years more than the whole of WW2 to construct one airstrip seems downright laggardly.
That's a cool 1.6million quid per metre or 6666 per M3 of concrete laid.
BAA recently rejected a bid of 9bn for the company...now I understand, as with 15000m of runways (at LHR x 2/STN/LGW & SOU) they should be worth 24bn even without the rest of the airport land & buildings....
By the way, I see that China plans 42 new airports in the next 15 years. Now that's ambitious.
On a serious note, the dithering and no doubt related cost overruns that characterise major projects in this country (epitomised by the T5 planning inquiry, Nimrods,aircraft carriers etc) make one weep. It's just as well the French run Airbus.

MAN's R2 cost about £200m plus (I think) the cost of buying the land. That included demolitions of existing bldgs, rerouting a road, two tunnels (road and river), dismantling listed buildings and building a new satellite fire station.

I'm off to buy shares in concrete manufacturers right now.

Why does everything BAA do cost 10x as much as anything anyone else does?

BAA's own blurb claims 15000m3 of concrete poured per week at the peak of T5 construction so using WHBM's figure of 600,000m3 that's 40 weeks for a runway, which sounds far more reasonable than 9 years. Perhaps the time scale includes 3 years of planning enquiry,3 years of deciding what shape and colour it should be and 3 years of doing nothing at all just to be on the safe side.

Guys

You are getting well on your way to membership of the Institute of Civil Engineers :)

£6,666 per m3 of concrete ?

Current typical price of ready-mixed concrrete is £50 per m3, ex-works. I know there's more to it, but it gives you an idea. For a project of this size you would have a concrete production plant (known as a "batching plant") on site. Perhaps the one used on T5 could be sent over to reduce costs. Has anyone asked ?

The figures don't surprise me, its all just a part of the old Rip off Britain campaign. In todays world the likes of BAA won't accept a tender from some smallish outfit who could do the work much cheaper and to the required standard. Nor do they even consider getting in a contract team and managing the work in house. That is all seen as unacceptable risk. Instead they will go through a laborious process of ticking boxes against the tenders they receive. Probably get a special team of lawyers, engineers and project managers to pour over the tenders.

In reality there are only a handful of multinationals that can undertake a project of this scale given the rules that big corporates such as BAA have essentially self imposed on themselves. Even then the company that wins the tender will retender work and sub it out all the way down to the man who does the road marshalling and sprays water to keep the dust down. All aboard the gravy train with each and everyone adding on a margin in the process. Thats essentially how we get to the ridiculous figures these days for laying some concrete.

Now heres one for innovation.... Imagine hiring a couple of super tankers, fill them up with the materials and equipment brought overseas nice and cheap and throw on board a 1,000 workers at £100 a day. Get in some decent qualified people to oversee the work and throw in some hefty early completion bonuses for all concerned. Reckon it would take more than 6 months to lay some concrete? Kick up a right fuss in the process but get the job done and to the required standard.

What takes time is:

Drawing up the plans, detailed enough to put into action.
Getting an environmental impact assessment done by someone in qualified green wellies.
Submitting a planning application which takes months to be passed from District Council to County Council to Prescott:ugh: :ugh: :yuk: :yuk: who then appoints an ex-military officer as a planning inspector.
Who gives loads of notice to NIMBYs, parish councils, district councils, county councils, regional assemblies, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all.
Then the said NIMBYs, councils, etc get to state their objections. Public Inquiries work 4 or 5 day weeks, 3-4 hours a day. So they take months, if not years. Lawyers get paid ££££.
Then the ex-military officer submits his report to Government. Delay whilst Prescott is taught to read (or has it read to him).
Government waits until they can put a positive spin on the announcement, or hide it.
Approval is given.
BAA holds a party.
Tenders are put out giving companies time to respond.
Tenders are assessed. Further negotiations occur. A start date is agreed.
The start date is delayed because of unforeseen circumstances (it rains, or the skip doesn't show up).
Concrete gets poured.
Workers go on strike.
Further delays when they discover lesser-spotted Reggie Spotters are nesting on the site. Also, Swampy has set up home on the site and the stench is too awful to approach him. (And turfing him off private land is probably an infringement of his 'human' rights.)
Cracks are discovered in the concrete and it transpires that the cheapest possible concrete was ordered from a dubious cove with a Russian accent in a raincoat in a pub in Bishops Stortford. (have you heard a raincoat with a Russian accent?).
Due to previous delays the painters can't start until they've finished Mrs Entwhistle's dining room.

Handover day approaches, and it's getting on for twenty past eight (or 2020).:}

Although no longer as remember he doesnt actualy do anything these days :hmm:

... Amazing planning timetable, when one considers that the latest off-shore Japanese airport at Kytakyushu was opened a mere... four years after getting the green light - and did not only involve a new runway (obviously), but creating a completely new-built airport on an artificial island, with a highway/causeway to the mainland etc.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, it was only three years between the go-ahead and the fourth runway being opened at CDG. They just bought more land for it - but then again they buy it at a 20% premium, so most land/house owners are happy to sell...

Food for thought...

Nite! :zzz:

unrest in the camp?
 

rumours surfacing that one of the handling agents at stansted is experiencing problems with its workforce over pay.Anyone heard anything?

people are not happy
 

rumours flying(pun)that there are TWO handling agents at stansted with unhappy employees.Seems nobody is happy with their pay negotiations.Could well be very interesting there this summer.
:=

And there I was thinking this was a thread about humanity in general. Not exactly a gripping story, and in breach of forum guidelines, I believe.

Pray explain yourself regards the breach.And if it is true it COULD be very eventful this summer-dont you think?:ok:

aaahhh the joys of Great Britain. Oh sorry, someone remind me what is "great" about Britain :ugh:

Seems that two airlines are already asking questions about possible delays especially with the world cup just round the corner.:=

What's happening at EGSS right now. I'm in the Suffolk countryside and there are 2 RYR 738's and a GSS 744 chasing each other in the hold for RWY 23. The 2 738's are less than 1000ft apart that I do know. Their TCAS will be going mad.

By the way, I'm not a spotter or wannabe, I know these a/c are VERY close.

Any ideas ??

Morocco
 

With Ryanair now committed to developing up to 20 routes in Morocco, maybe not to long before STN is included.

Flew out with RYR on 23rd, and I have to say its the absolute PITS compared with Gatwick; cramped checkin area; long queues; few eating places. OK I know it's 'undergoing development' but then so are all other BAA airports and they're not half as bad. Unfortunately RYR don't go to my destination from any other departure point so I've got no choice but to go here. Even the car parking is confusing; instead of just Long term and Short term, you've also got Mid term. Now what is Mid term? 2 days? 6 days?

Mid Term at Stansted :

Priced close to short term.
Long bus ride away so like long term.
Only one bus on duty because few use it, so much angst as your checkin deadline creeps closer with no bus in sight.
Costs more to park for a few days than the flight did.

Yeah I wish we'd used long term now, still we'll know next time. Parking was 67 quid, and the flights were 89 quid for two! (NB have to say quid 'cos someone set up my PC as American language and the pound sign doesn't work!)
Actually there seemed to be more than one bus; there was already one at the terminal when we arrived from the car park, and the zone we were directed to was pretty full.

New Routes?
 

Does anyone know of any new routes which could be launced from Stansted? Ryanair will hopefully announce some Morocco routes in the next few months.

Seen a couple of Flyme cancellations lately and looking at the stats I'm not surprised, average of 43 pax per flight. I don't fancy that one lasting past the summer, FR are killing them. Blue1 to Helsinki seems to be doing even worse, their average is 34 pax.

On the plus side Albanian Airlines start next week 4x weekly Tirana.

TIRANA
 

tommyc2005

LV will be using a BAC 146. Dep.Tirana 06.30-STN 08.50 on 3/7
Tirana 13.30-STN 15.50 on 2/5

NEW ROUTE ?
 

A 'New Start Up' for Gibraltar has been sited using 2 wet leased 737's for direct flights to STN.

:D

Close to 720 movements at Stansted last Friday!

Anybody know whos going to be handling these? Im thinking AGS?

FlyGlobespan
 

Starting service to Chambery 12/06-04/07
Looks like a summer service in 07 too, but at present the summer 07 service to TFS is not listed.
Also there is no winter service to Geneva listed

Did anyone see the amount of Bizjets parked up Northside this morning. :eek:

Yep a very busy night apparently.

MY
 

The MY8000 charter from Orlando returning to STN at 10.30.

Centralwings are starting 3x weekly to Warsaw from the end of November, not sure how long it will last, or if it will indeed start as they have a poor track record. Would have thought they would have gone daily at least.

WHBM wrote Isn't it a pity that the airport with argueably the best rail served infrastuctue in the UK has the worst train operator running on it. Central trains running from the west are appalingly un-reliable and One from the south and east have the shabbiest rolling stock in the rail business. What a waste of a fantastic resource that can benefit passengers and sensitive global warming issues. I hope the STN press and business sections read this. Sort the rail companies out please, they are letting you down.

Gibraltar
Isn't it ironic that you could probably fly from STN to Gib quicker than you could get in by car after queuing to get through the frontier from La Linea?

EM

November?
 

Company states service starting on 15/12/06. Operating on 1-3-5.
Warsaw-STN 07.30-09.10. STN-Warsaw 09.55-13.10.

England Team Arrive at STN
 

Nice to see the England team using Stansted for a change (probably because Beckham only lives down the road).
But anyway nice to see...............and they certainly avoided the fans who were all waiting at the VP:D

Alitalia
 

Whats with the AZ today? Whats the reason for this service? Just a charter? Good to see tho!

I am afraid the world has moved on. The days when people could/would spend half a day each way between the airport and their house on public transport have gone. We expect to drive to the airport, have convenient parking, and fly. That is what airports are in business to deliver, not to lecture us on the need to use inappropriate public transport so they can appear green and friendly to the government and to the lentil eating brigade. There is a reason why we use cars, it is because they provide overwhelmingly the best journey option.

I live close to London City. It's just over 30 minutes up the M11 to Stansted where I always use the short term (like most others) and can be inside the terminal in 45 minutes from leaving my front door. I often take one of the early departures. For an 0800 departure I leave home long after 0600 and use Easy's on-line check in. I've never missed the flight.

If I go by public transport I have to get up in the middle of the night, spend literally hours on the journey, a fortune on a taxi to Liverpool Street (as the Underground has not started) and a second fortune on the train to the airport, certainly more than parking and car costs. Actually my taxi company charges little different from home to Liverpool Street or to Stansted, and the road journey alone is probably quicker than to Liverpool Street. This is for someone who lives in inner London and is therefore "convenient" to public transport.

On return, by public transport, wait for Stansted Express, to Liverpool Street, Central Line to Bank, DLR to West Ferry, DLR to my home station, long walk home. With suitcases. In today's heat. Ha Ha !

There is a nice new direct train from Stratford to Stansted. It stops at every station along the way, takes 70 minutes, only goes once an hour, and the first train of the day arrives at Stansted at the airport at 1038 in the morning. You couldn't make this up if you tried.

Stansted Airport station is approached by a long single track tunnel under the runway (limiting capacity) to an austere dead-end station, which prevents it being served by any through trains like Gatwick is. To call this the "best airport rail infrastructure in the UK" is I feel inappropriate.

I also saw this flight taking off and was thinking the same thing.

jack_essex

Not a scheduled flight, so must have been a Charter from sunny Rome.