Millennium Airlines (Irish International Airlines) - Is it a con?
 

This supposedly new airline is asking for cash to pay upfront for Type Ratings and the Irish CAA, the IAA, have not issued a AOC to them. Based in Shannon, they have a website which is pretty vague about who they are, who the Directors are, and is asking for investors!

Anyone know what PJ McGoldrick is up to thesedays? Is it him? Doubt it as he's normally pretty up front.

. .J Abeaver

Balpa have issued a news letter recently saying approach this company with caution. As you say AOC not even applied for and asking for £5k up front!!?

Balpa rightly advise to be wary of any request for cash up front [quote] Even if an escrow account is set up....only as secure as the honesty of the lawyer holding it <hr></blockquote>

Hmmm...think the claims of obtaining an RJX fleet, then having to rethink it after BAE's cancellation, all combined with a pic of an Emb 170 says it all... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

HEARD A FEW CABIN CREW WERE INTERVIEWED IN ROME FOR A POSSIBLE BASE THERE !

AND ON A SEPARATE NOTE....... .I HEAR PJ IS LOOKING AT NEW COMPANY IN DUBLIN !!!

It's code is not 'EI', is it .....?!

BALPA advise is correct. Proceed with caution.. .I was also offered a position with them and he wanted 5K upfront.. .The few conversations I have had with the gentleman indicated it was a very vague setup with very large dreams. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

I heard they will fly the Avro RJ85 ? Anybody who can confirm this, and how many aircraft they will fly??

the 12 you will provide them.... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

would you have the url which you refer to above for Mullennium's website ?

The website for Millennium Airlines is . .<a href="http://www.millenniumairlines.net" target="_blank">www.millenniumairlines.net</a>. .And for all you ex-VEX-IRL chappies a bit of a shock when you find out whose in charge!!! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Judging by the standard of the website, I thonk this is a school project (promary school at that!). Mind you they mention 100 million € capital. Thats a lot of pocket money. This can not be serious. I hope that no one loses their shirt.

Who's in charge??. ........

Millennium Airlines is pleased to inform that Mr. MARTIN HAMROGUE has been appointed as Chairman of the Company.. .He has a top level qualification and recently served as Chairman and CEO at Virgin Express Ireland.. .He will lead our Company during its start-up relying on his prominent experience acquired both in civil aviation and in the army since 1959.. .Have a good Job, Mr. Hamrogue, and welcome to Millennium Airlines.

....

. .So now you know!. . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

GYRO--IS THIS RELATED TO SKYNET? Or totally indo?

Having just seen the site, I have to ask the same question as soddit.

It smacks all over of the type of scam that burk would be behind.

More importantly, and perhaps those in 'the know' will verify, I thought one had to be regulated by the financial authorities to openly solicit investments? I'm sure it is in the UK, and if so, I'm also sure it isn't any different in Ireland.

Only an absolute idiot would impart a brass farthing, or Euro equivalent, to such a scheme. No business prospectus, or what? What about the disclaimer that 'your investment may well go down as well as up?

More fool them for thinking they might get investors without disclosing any info...and in the aviation sector as well....ROFL...what a waste of bandwidth!

If any fool invests, then, imho, they deserve to be separated from their dosh!!

Best laff I've had since the purchase of Delta's fleet!

....also, I find it highly suspect that such outfit has 'paid up capital' of EU2M. Has BALPA or anyone else thought to do a company search??

A Quote from their website for those who can't face the god-awful intro:

In order to start operating in business, the company needs an initial minimum capital to buy aircrafts and for complete organisation of personnel and the necessary means: Millennium Airlines shares are on sale with a nominal value of 50.00 € each, to a total amount of 100,000,000.00 €. Every purchase order will arrive at one of the most important Irish Bank, which will issue the shares to guarantee your capital until the airline starts business.

All capital will be managed and guaranteed by this. .bank until that moment, at 10% annual interest. . .If, after a year, you should wish to sell the shares, the Bank shall buy, at the current market. .price,but never at an inferior value to that of the original investment. . . So with maximum clearness and serioussness, with. .a great deal of security for a capital investment, we believe that our offer will prove to be very interesting, as well as original in its execution.

"very interesting" is an understatement!

Anyone who claims that a bank will offer a guaranteed return of 10% on a 1 year cash deposit is either deluded or a crook...

If you're looking for a job you might try:

<a href="http://www.millennium-airways.com/" target="_blank">http://www.millennium-airways.com/</a>

Yes, it's a virtual airline but it's probably more real than "Millennium Airlines..."

theRolfe

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: theRolfe2 ]</p>

But Rolffe, you forgot the 'free monthly' airline magazine with every investment... that will bring investors flocking in from all parts of the globe.

I can't be assed to read the free one that comes in the seat pocket in front of me.

But, there again, I did used to pester me Mom to buy Cornflakes or Beano, when they had a freebee insert... gosh, showing my age now...

That has to be one of the worst websites I have ever seen! It even beats the Aer Lingus one! What a joke.

EIDW

I didn't know they were giving out a free monthly magazine - probably full of classfied ads for bridges and perpetual motion machines.

That changes everything. I'll send my cheque off tomorrow.

I wonder if their virtual counterparts will sue them for identity theft....

theRolfe

Their domain name info:-. . [quote]Registrant:. .WINSHIP,STEPHEN (MILLENIUMAIRLINES3-DOM). . 6124 Pattie Ct.. . HAYMARKET, VA 20169. . US

Domain Name: MILLENIUMAIRLINES.NET

Administrative Contact, Billing Contact:. . WINSHIP, STEPHEN (SWM187) [email protected]. . WINSHIP,STEPHEN. . 6124 Pattie Ct.. . HAYMARKET, VA 20169. . US. . 703 754 1776 703 754 1887. . Technical Contact:. . VeriSign, Inc. (HOST-ORG) [email protected]. . VeriSign, Inc.. . 21355 Ridgetop Circle. . Dulles, VA 20166. . US. . 1-888-642-9675 fax:

Record last updated on 05-Apr-2001.. . Record expires on 16-Feb-2002.. . Record created on 16-Feb-2000.. . Database last updated on 4-Feb-2002 07:33:00 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS29.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.159. . NS30.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.160. .<hr></blockquote>. .I've already lost count of the number of spelling or grammatical errors on their website. I suspect that whoever wrote it is not a native English-speaker. Such elementary errors as "Millenium Airlines is an Irish International Airlines"...

Looks sure like a scam to me.

I think these are the correct web address details

Millennium Airlines (template COCO-1058886). . [email protected]. . Will House. . Shannon Business Park. . Shannon, Co Clare 00000 IE

Domain Name: millenniumairlines.net. . Status: production

Admin Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:. . Piero Chirco (COCO-965460) [email protected]. . +39051477627 (FAX) +39051477843

CORE Registrar: CORE-11

Record last modified: 2001-07-10 14:36:38 UTC by CORE-11. . Record created: 2001-03-22 17:45:13 UTC by CORE-11. . Record expires: 2002-03-22 10:43:04 UTC

Domain servers in listed order:

virus.italiatelematica.com . . virus2.italiatelematica.com

. .Also,

Directors:

Ugo Michelassi. .Axel Peter Kapell. .Martin Hamrogue

FlyingV, you got the details right..... . :) :) :)

EI-EI-O

I wish I could say whose behind it, but as you will have read by now it would appear the Guvnor is not involved but rather maybe some of our Italian cousins. Heard a while back that a group of Italian investors were scrabbling around for an Irish AOC. It also begs belief that the great and mighty airline industry guru MH, would lend himself to an outfit that present themselves in such an amaturish fashion, and expect to win the confidence of potential investors!! Talk about losing credibility fast!! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Ugo Michelassi claims to have flown for American Airlines but with his English one wonders.Could his claim be checked?

Oh Yes, he did !!

Probably flying an Italian regional turboprop in codeshare with Swissair who's passengers were brought out of the states in codeshare with American. So, indirectly, he DID fly for AA.

BTW, I already flew for Delta, AA, Swissair, Austrian, ...

Is this £5,000 that those who applied have been asked to stump up for the Avro/146 differences course? If so how much do they charge at Woodford?

If these guys are operating in the Shannon area then interested parties could consider contacting the following company .....

Shannon Development. .Shannon town centre. .Shannon. .County Clare. .Ireland

tel no ... 00 353 61 36 15 55

Shannon Development are a Government organisation who's responsibilities include promoting the Shannon area for various business opportunities and will almost certainly be aware of just how legitimate this company is

I think the upshot of all this is that it is a right barrel of monkeys, and best avoided at all costs.

Deal with them at your peril. The IAA should slam them with a hammer from the start, and tell them to pi$$ off and get an AOC off someone else; maybe this is what they have told them.

Rule number one in aviation - NEVER put any money up front.

Woodford can not offer upgrade as they sold their one and only RJ sim to the U.S.A.

Just visited their web site, even excusing the crap language, definitely looks dodgy!. .Beware.............

I was puzzled as to why Hugmonster and FlyingV got different domain info. So I had a look myself and spotted the difference.

Hugmonster got the domain info for MilleNium Airlines.

FlyingV got the info for MilleNNium Airlines.

Spot the difference!

Theone with the single N is all based in the States. The one with the double N is all based in Ireland.

I'm willing to bet that (at least! :) one of them is a scam!)

If one is genuine, then it can complain about the other one having a name that is the same (to all intents and purposes) and is in the same business. That is a definate no-no.

Also, something odd about the Irish site - which is the one that has something on it (the single N site is U/C). They have a link to the Atlantic Stock Exchange. This has a clock on it. Stock exchanges world-wide run in synch using atomic clocks for reference. This one is 7 minutes slow. That is a huge amount. Very odd! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Basically, at least one is definately a scam, and the other one...well, some of you here seem to know people involved, so it's up to you.

<img src="redface.gif" border="0"> Whoops. About the Irish site. That has nothing at all on it, and I couldn't find much either. Give it a miss until someone who knows these things says it's ok.

The site I actually looked at by accident was for Millenium-Airways. That is a virtual airline set up by a bunch of kids. It has a holding company as the "Uniflyer Group" and is qouted on the "Atlantic Stock Exchange". All quite amusing. It was the fact that they kept mentioning Flight Sim, and that the Stock exchange clock was slow, as I mentioned above. Not to mention that the "photo" of some bigwig was not a photo! Still, nice little spoof.

There is also a Milleniumairways.com. That is a domain name for sale. And as mentioned in my previous post, if someone exists as an airline, and they are called "Millennium Airways" I don't think that anyone can make a reasonable case that because they are Millennium-airways, and the other guy is Millenium Airways, that they are somehow different.

The kids' site actually is more entertaining than the Irish one. At least it has info on it, even if it's all false! :)

As for the "Irish". There is no info of any sort available. All that is on the site is a few email addresses, nothing else.Do not touch it!

Proficiency in English is not a guarantee -&gt; look at the Arthur Andersen link to Enron!

I met MH today and it seems some people dont dig very hard for facts.. .He has not had anything to do with Millennium. .Airlines for quite some time now.. .Other ex-VEI staff have also had brief encounters. .with them - and did not stay long.

So is there anymore news on this start up, or has it just faded away? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Fact is that the IAA "officially" does not know anything about them. If you ask about any inofficial details....but this is another story.

Ugo's phone and fax are from Vatican City, his knowledge and use of the English language is extremely bad, if he ever flew aeroplanes, it must have been locally between Ciampino and Fiumicino...

Rumours came up last week that there is a DO appointed, however, latest rumours contradict the first again.... .One ex-BAe employee is said to be employed as TRI, digging further did not confirm the employement but, surprise, surprise, show that the mentioned "TRI" is neither TRI nor even SFI.

This is all very strange, especially as there are very hot rumours now evading and these ones link Michelassi with an Airbus deal....

As this is a rumours board, take it as written, never trust anything unless you have it in writing. But why was there already an interview for cabin crew last year..... . . <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

hello all, first post so forgive me if this all goes horribly wrong, and the internet explodes or something.

A couple or three points here as I know a few of the people who 'may' become involved.

1) In the current environment, should we not unite and support anyone’s proactive ventures ?

2) Giving 5K in return for a job is the most ludicrous selection procedure I have seen.... did anyone take the offer up ?

3) I wont name names (sorry, that’s for them to do) but the training manager that is currently in the frame is a gentleman of very high calibre - certainly any of you 146/RJ drivers out there will probably know of him - he has all the qualifications and more to fulfil this position. The only other 'firmish' position currently being filled is the guy responsible for preparing the Ops Manuals/Systems/Databases for AOC submission. Whilst relatively young, I know that he (rightly) commands enormous respect from all who come into contact with him – he taught me more about correct operation of the 146 over the phone one day than 5 years of flying the dam thing ever did. Brain on legs, common sense to-boot – bastard.

With the addition of a handful more like these two, proper funding, and a following wind I guess that this operation will have about as good a chance as any other of succeeding.

Come on guys, rally and support your industry - and those who have the balls to be proactive at this hellish time.

And for those mentioned in 3) Gimme a job ?

Regards, Aid.

Hello All,. .i have gotten some details on the company agreement or say the employment contract and honestly it is very poorly written.. .I think the person in charge of replying to employment inquiries is of Italian background.. .I think it would be very much worth getting this company to clarify the process through which they will hire pilots.. .They claim to wanting to start ops in April which raise many questions.. .Later

Did Millennium Airlines hire any pilots?

More to the point...did anyone pay for the expensive RJ conversion which appeared to be a condition of employment??