Wot's goin' on with officialdom at STN
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Feels like STN.. all the time!
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and for those of you working at STN now... you have to fill ut those stupid declaration forms at £13 a go so BAA can see if you have a criminal record?? bit late isn't it?
Failed policemen at STN spring to mind....
738
(dan84)
Failed policemen at STN spring to mind....
738
(dan84)
Just a numbered other
STN get my prize for the most jobsworth and least helpful security folk in Europe (and the most helpfuland least jobsworth prize goes to CWL)
Few years ago, and pre 11/9 I parked a F27 on the freight apron under the ATC tower, and popped into Fedex for a coffee. passed landside, and showed pass. On return to a/c same gate was not allowed to let me back airside.
Argument brought supervisor into equation. He, to any reasoned point, simply repeated a 'mantra' that youcan'tcomethrough'ere,gottagofruvalidation.
Seething crew now walk about 3/4 mile to aircraft which was 25ft away, depart late and spend entire sector bitching about these aholes instaed of concentrating on job.
There was a rumour that STN head of secutity's pay is linked to how many staff he has. More officiousness=more staff=more dosh.
Few years ago, and pre 11/9 I parked a F27 on the freight apron under the ATC tower, and popped into Fedex for a coffee. passed landside, and showed pass. On return to a/c same gate was not allowed to let me back airside.
Argument brought supervisor into equation. He, to any reasoned point, simply repeated a 'mantra' that youcan'tcomethrough'ere,gottagofruvalidation.
Seething crew now walk about 3/4 mile to aircraft which was 25ft away, depart late and spend entire sector bitching about these aholes instaed of concentrating on job.
There was a rumour that STN head of secutity's pay is linked to how many staff he has. More officiousness=more staff=more dosh.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: EMA
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STANSTEAD JOBSWORTHS
Fully agree with Stanstead being the most officious airport in Europe.Once had the biggest job getting airside to get to an aircraft with security wanting ridiculous amounts of ID (birth cert !).I had valid passes for EMA MAN and FRA Caa licence,passport and old style(non photo )driving licence,airside driving permit,full uniform and a van in full company livery.
If you think you have problems as flying crew try turning up at an airport that your company does not normally operate from to rescue an aog a/c with a non yellow backed pass,box full of dangerous tools,suspicious looking test equipment and boxes of spare parts.Little hitler thinks all his birthdays have come at once!Sends you all round the airport to get temp pass, x ray toolbox(pointless) rummage thru test equipment(whassis then?)and leaves you to arrange an escort for the whole time you are airside(even though the only eng from your company there is you)
The whole set up could almost have been designed to hassle people who are just trying to do a job,the fact that some temp worker drives through a lorry load of catering unchecked only adds to the rage.
I would dearly love to inject a shedload of common sense into these outfits and let them get on with what they are supposed to be looking for.
If you think you have problems as flying crew try turning up at an airport that your company does not normally operate from to rescue an aog a/c with a non yellow backed pass,box full of dangerous tools,suspicious looking test equipment and boxes of spare parts.Little hitler thinks all his birthdays have come at once!Sends you all round the airport to get temp pass, x ray toolbox(pointless) rummage thru test equipment(whassis then?)and leaves you to arrange an escort for the whole time you are airside(even though the only eng from your company there is you)
The whole set up could almost have been designed to hassle people who are just trying to do a job,the fact that some temp worker drives through a lorry load of catering unchecked only adds to the rage.
I would dearly love to inject a shedload of common sense into these outfits and let them get on with what they are supposed to be looking for.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regard to low pay of security staff at STN, those who work on Security for the BAA are amongst the best paid at the airport. I know that in early 2002 the rate for BAA security staff was £7.20 per hour. I believe it is now £9 per hour.
As a dispatcher my rate of pay is less than £6 per hour.
Not grumbling at my pay - just pointing out the BAA staff have a much better rate of pay then the vast majority of other folks working in the airport. They are not, comparitively speaking "low paid".
Oh another thing. When Buzz was about to close, many of us had "staff tickets" and such like to use. So a big group of us got together and decided to go to AMS for the day (beer, food, sex meseums etc). Of course we had our STN passes on us (so we could get into the car park). But would the BAA let us through the staff security channel (10 less people to search at main security, we are staff at the airport - surely some perks of not having to que for an hour at security?). No. Despite it being the same x-ray machine for our bags, the same arch walkway metal detector, same body search - the answer is no. Very helpfull. So we all made a point of walking through the arch with coins in our pockets so we would have to be body searched - hence slowing down the process!!!
Oh another thing - the road that runs under the terminal at STN - there are no access controls at all (apart from when a certain airline is in).
As a dispatcher my rate of pay is less than £6 per hour.
Not grumbling at my pay - just pointing out the BAA staff have a much better rate of pay then the vast majority of other folks working in the airport. They are not, comparitively speaking "low paid".
Oh another thing. When Buzz was about to close, many of us had "staff tickets" and such like to use. So a big group of us got together and decided to go to AMS for the day (beer, food, sex meseums etc). Of course we had our STN passes on us (so we could get into the car park). But would the BAA let us through the staff security channel (10 less people to search at main security, we are staff at the airport - surely some perks of not having to que for an hour at security?). No. Despite it being the same x-ray machine for our bags, the same arch walkway metal detector, same body search - the answer is no. Very helpfull. So we all made a point of walking through the arch with coins in our pockets so we would have to be body searched - hence slowing down the process!!!
Oh another thing - the road that runs under the terminal at STN - there are no access controls at all (apart from when a certain airline is in).
Last edited by timzsta; 30th Jul 2003 at 19:10.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: land of the long BLUE cloud
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Timzsta. youve really done it now. I hope BAA revoke your ID card... then your job. Everyone here is complaining about the unnecessary secirity at STN, so you decide to publish simple instructiuons on how to kill a few of your workmates. Some friend!
I have actually noticed security blocking the undercroft to check vehicles recently.
Whilst being no friend of STN security, I would like to provide a bit of balance to the above arguments.
ID cards are required entering EH airside, not for airport security, but for immigration control. Walking into EH from a flight, is far easier than clinging to the underside of Eurostar. I dont mind it a bit. Going airside security is somewhat over the top I agree.
What I cant understand, is the logic, in this day and age, of CAA not putting photos on Pilots Licences. The simplest process to provide far more security than 100 green Hitlers.
I have actually noticed security blocking the undercroft to check vehicles recently.
Whilst being no friend of STN security, I would like to provide a bit of balance to the above arguments.
ID cards are required entering EH airside, not for airport security, but for immigration control. Walking into EH from a flight, is far easier than clinging to the underside of Eurostar. I dont mind it a bit. Going airside security is somewhat over the top I agree.
What I cant understand, is the logic, in this day and age, of CAA not putting photos on Pilots Licences. The simplest process to provide far more security than 100 green Hitlers.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Point taken out of synch - so I have edited the post. I work up in a bad mood, and fancied a rant!!! Neway - it would take an Al Qeada operative about 3 or 4 hours of "casing the joint" so to speak, to work out the plan I posted. But being reasonably sensible and willing to take on board the views of others, I have edited the post.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
out-of-synch
But herein lies the rub. How many illegal immigrants would know how to get out of the jetway, or sprint away from the steps, don a yellow jacket and find EH security exit?
Besides, unless we all fall victim to the Stockholm syndrome, why all the hassle when arriving there as a complete crew. If HM Immigration are so keen to check, why not have a checkpoint there? As you know Security staff have no legal right to check passports and/or licences!
To return to my first posting: if my crew and I remain on "international sole", doing a ramp-transfer, which after all is not dissimilar to what transit pax are doing, why do we have to be subjected to a type of immigration control. I think the Schengen requirements in this case are not relevant.
Thanks anyway for providing some counter-arguments. Ivan T.
But herein lies the rub. How many illegal immigrants would know how to get out of the jetway, or sprint away from the steps, don a yellow jacket and find EH security exit?
Besides, unless we all fall victim to the Stockholm syndrome, why all the hassle when arriving there as a complete crew. If HM Immigration are so keen to check, why not have a checkpoint there? As you know Security staff have no legal right to check passports and/or licences!
To return to my first posting: if my crew and I remain on "international sole", doing a ramp-transfer, which after all is not dissimilar to what transit pax are doing, why do we have to be subjected to a type of immigration control. I think the Schengen requirements in this case are not relevant.
Thanks anyway for providing some counter-arguments. Ivan T.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May I suggest all operating through STN to carry a print out of this thread, and then, ahhhh, "drop/leave" it at the security point....
Won't make the "service" any better, but will let you leave STN with a smile on your face!
NoD
PS Suggest you edit out the last few posts - inc mine!
Won't make the "service" any better, but will let you leave STN with a smile on your face!
NoD
PS Suggest you edit out the last few posts - inc mine!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Stansted
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NigelOnDraft ,
Nice one! STN is the MOST staff unfriendly airport. If you show your ID card to nip around into FAST TRACK or the staff point when positioning or jumping onto a flight after work a jobs worth will always try and stop you. Yet when I flew out of LHR (on holiday) a few months ago the security channels where packed- I showed my ID card and a lady at fast track was more than willing to let me through and have a quick chat!
When on Duty the security personnel will even try and take camera off crews! Why? You can nip up into the terminal and buy anything from a disposable to a 6MB pixel digital camera!
Its a pity, STN is a GREAT airport, fantastic terminal, Links to London etc- it just needs to be more staff friendly!
Nice one! STN is the MOST staff unfriendly airport. If you show your ID card to nip around into FAST TRACK or the staff point when positioning or jumping onto a flight after work a jobs worth will always try and stop you. Yet when I flew out of LHR (on holiday) a few months ago the security channels where packed- I showed my ID card and a lady at fast track was more than willing to let me through and have a quick chat!
When on Duty the security personnel will even try and take camera off crews! Why? You can nip up into the terminal and buy anything from a disposable to a 6MB pixel digital camera!
Its a pity, STN is a GREAT airport, fantastic terminal, Links to London etc- it just needs to be more staff friendly!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: eu
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A point that may be of interest to some.
When operating on the other side of the airport, carrying horses, ther appears to be no security checks whatsoever for the peolpe accompanying the horses. They drive up land side, take the horses through a small shed and board the aircraft. The other interesting thing is that many of these horses are from the M.E. as are the handlers.
Meanwhile, the crew have to go through all the above mentioned nausea over at Enterprise House!
When operating on the other side of the airport, carrying horses, ther appears to be no security checks whatsoever for the peolpe accompanying the horses. They drive up land side, take the horses through a small shed and board the aircraft. The other interesting thing is that many of these horses are from the M.E. as are the handlers.
Meanwhile, the crew have to go through all the above mentioned nausea over at Enterprise House!
Last edited by Hawk; 26th Aug 2003 at 04:04.
'Fraid it's not only STN!!!
At LPL the other day, going through as crew for a flight, I presented my ID to be swiped at Security. I have one of those nice Boeing holders, with a long elasticated thread, enabling it to be swiped and checked, without the inconvenience of physically taking it out of the holder.
I was told in no uncertain terms that it had to be removed, I have been using the same holder for the last 3 years, as it might be a fake and I had a real one hidden behind. ' Think about it, mate!!'.
It would have been more believable if the guy had actually looked at my ID to confirm it really was me, instead of just swiping it!!! I didn't need one hiding at the back.
At LPL the other day, going through as crew for a flight, I presented my ID to be swiped at Security. I have one of those nice Boeing holders, with a long elasticated thread, enabling it to be swiped and checked, without the inconvenience of physically taking it out of the holder.
I was told in no uncertain terms that it had to be removed, I have been using the same holder for the last 3 years, as it might be a fake and I had a real one hidden behind. ' Think about it, mate!!'.
It would have been more believable if the guy had actually looked at my ID to confirm it really was me, instead of just swiping it!!! I didn't need one hiding at the back.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: London & Edinburgh
Age: 38
Posts: 646
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fantastic terminal, Links to London etc-
I hate to say it (and please don't falme me for speaking out of turn), but STN's connections to London are patchy at best. WAGN who operate the Stanstead Express are forever providing replacement bus services whilst they do work on the line, and when the trains do operate, they stop far to early, meaning that passengers for very early arrivals/departures are left with a major headache ...
As for the terminal itself, the few times I've been there, its looked a real state, and in need of a good overhaul.
Jordan
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Stansted "Express" is a joke. As has been mentioned, bus services frequently replace trains.
The "Express" is hardly that, given it's tendency to make multiple stops on the way to Stansted. The engine broke down in one instance, causing the inevitable delays and irritated customers.
Perhaps the greatest irony is that many flights are cheaper than the hugely expensive fare charged between Liv St. and the airport.
If you are going to have an air-rail link, do it properly.
Even the Heathrow Xpress is hardly perfect - again, ridiculously expensive, and not centrally/conveniently located in London.
I can't imagine visitors to the UK will form favourable first impressions after being overcharged and underserved in this way. (but hey, I guess that's typical of the state of the service industry in the UK...)
The "Express" is hardly that, given it's tendency to make multiple stops on the way to Stansted. The engine broke down in one instance, causing the inevitable delays and irritated customers.
Perhaps the greatest irony is that many flights are cheaper than the hugely expensive fare charged between Liv St. and the airport.
If you are going to have an air-rail link, do it properly.
Even the Heathrow Xpress is hardly perfect - again, ridiculously expensive, and not centrally/conveniently located in London.
I can't imagine visitors to the UK will form favourable first impressions after being overcharged and underserved in this way. (but hey, I guess that's typical of the state of the service industry in the UK...)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back from hols and have read through this thread. I've no experience of STN 'security' but incidents reported in previous posts do happen dozens of times a day all around the empire.
The only answer one receives from these unfortunate people who man the security posts when they are confronted by logical questioning or reasoning is 'they're the rules' so.....
Where are these rules written down?
How do we, the pilot workforce, access these rules?
How do we know that these rules are being correctly enforced (given the variety of enforcement standards around the country)?
Why did we, as a workforce, allow these rules to be put into force without consultation with our professional bodies?
Who, in the Whitehall jungle, is the d...head who sanctioned these ludicrous rules in the first place?
Most importantly and seriously, how can we have these regulations reviewed to remove some of the ridiculous situations already descibed and reintroduce 'common sense' back into the situation. Nobody doubts the need for security measures but they must be applied by precision targeting and not carpet bombing.
The only answer one receives from these unfortunate people who man the security posts when they are confronted by logical questioning or reasoning is 'they're the rules' so.....
Where are these rules written down?
How do we, the pilot workforce, access these rules?
How do we know that these rules are being correctly enforced (given the variety of enforcement standards around the country)?
Why did we, as a workforce, allow these rules to be put into force without consultation with our professional bodies?
Who, in the Whitehall jungle, is the d...head who sanctioned these ludicrous rules in the first place?
Most importantly and seriously, how can we have these regulations reviewed to remove some of the ridiculous situations already descibed and reintroduce 'common sense' back into the situation. Nobody doubts the need for security measures but they must be applied by precision targeting and not carpet bombing.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: deco stop
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
one bag only, please
I was passing thru STN a few weeks ago as unhelpful self loading cargo.
Had the nerve to have a very light flight bag, and a lap top computer. After a very very long Q for security, I was asked to prove to the security girl that my light flight bag was light, (by lifting on one finger....I made the point!!!!)
Since when have they been employed to weigh pax bags....I could not see any weight machines near by. And having spent 20 minutes in this Q I would be very unhappy to go back to the desk and start over.
It would be my fault for missing the flight, naturally.
Then it go even worse, I was told I could only take one peice of hand baggage, I pointed out that I have one peice of hand baggage and a computer, "just like most business people". No this would not be permitted. So I put the computer in the bag, put it thru the scanner, removed it from the scanner, removed the computer from the bag, and continued on my way.
She was very very pi$$ed off.
I returned from Hamburg the next day expecting a full body search........
(Most of my flights from UK are from LTN, perfect service in security. No problems.)
Whilst venting my spleen, why at STN do they insist on giving final final final boarding calls, and show boarding on the screens when the aircraft has not even arrived on stand, thus tempting pax to ignore all future announcements as false.
There is no excuse for misleading information. This is the airlines job.
The Exec lounge, was found eventually, it is better than nothing. But compared to Luton it sucks.....
Vent over, thanks.....
Had the nerve to have a very light flight bag, and a lap top computer. After a very very long Q for security, I was asked to prove to the security girl that my light flight bag was light, (by lifting on one finger....I made the point!!!!)
Since when have they been employed to weigh pax bags....I could not see any weight machines near by. And having spent 20 minutes in this Q I would be very unhappy to go back to the desk and start over.
It would be my fault for missing the flight, naturally.
Then it go even worse, I was told I could only take one peice of hand baggage, I pointed out that I have one peice of hand baggage and a computer, "just like most business people". No this would not be permitted. So I put the computer in the bag, put it thru the scanner, removed it from the scanner, removed the computer from the bag, and continued on my way.
She was very very pi$$ed off.
I returned from Hamburg the next day expecting a full body search........
(Most of my flights from UK are from LTN, perfect service in security. No problems.)
Whilst venting my spleen, why at STN do they insist on giving final final final boarding calls, and show boarding on the screens when the aircraft has not even arrived on stand, thus tempting pax to ignore all future announcements as false.
There is no excuse for misleading information. This is the airlines job.
The Exec lounge, was found eventually, it is better than nothing. But compared to Luton it sucks.....
Vent over, thanks.....
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: STN and HPN
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's common for passengers to 'hide' some or all of their handluggage from check-in agents to prevent it from being checked-in, which is the reason that they check the weight of hand baggage (however as you point out, they do not have a set of scales!). There are many occassions where passengers are sent back to check-in to check their bags, and on some occassions it has resulted in pax missing their flights. I am with you on the one piece of hand baggage plus a laptop issue ... as are the airlines.
Is STN adopting this position because of the low-fare nature of it's airlines? Are these restrictions in place to benefit the low-fare carriers who greatly benefit from excess baggage charges? With the only regular business class airlines being El-Al and Luxair (which has no room in the cabin for luggage), there will be no major objections to this rule. Or maybe they are doing it purely for the travelling public's safety.......
Is STN adopting this position because of the low-fare nature of it's airlines? Are these restrictions in place to benefit the low-fare carriers who greatly benefit from excess baggage charges? With the only regular business class airlines being El-Al and Luxair (which has no room in the cabin for luggage), there will be no major objections to this rule. Or maybe they are doing it purely for the travelling public's safety.......
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a nice house
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Talking about "the rules". One day, security decided that of our crew of 8, 2 had to be searched, even though they didn't set the metal detector off. When asked why, the reply was that they had to check one in every five people coming through, regardless. This was "The Rules". I asked when this new procedure had come into effect, and was told, in a most obnoxious tone, that it had always been the case.
When I pointed out that that was the first time in 5 years that I had heard of it or seen "the rule" enforced, well, I was expecting a full strip down!!! I thought the lady at security was going to explode.
Next day, everything back to normal. She was wrong (surely not!).
But why get angry with me? I was being very nice, just asking out of interest, and she, having been in the job all of 5 minutes probably, couldn't even be civil.
When I pointed out that that was the first time in 5 years that I had heard of it or seen "the rule" enforced, well, I was expecting a full strip down!!! I thought the lady at security was going to explode.
Next day, everything back to normal. She was wrong (surely not!).
But why get angry with me? I was being very nice, just asking out of interest, and she, having been in the job all of 5 minutes probably, couldn't even be civil.