Flybe to Buy Q400
Slightly off topic, but a check in Galileo shows that BE are going to operate SOU-IBZ as an overnighter from the end of June, with a 3.5hr t/a in IBZ!! (presumably due to SOU's opening hours).
All of the new routes from SOU (except JER,BGY) are down as 142 or 143, so they must be getting some "new" frames from somewhere, or closing other routes.
All of the new routes from SOU (except JER,BGY) are down as 142 or 143, so they must be getting some "new" frames from somewhere, or closing other routes.
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Where are they getting the money from ? From the hidden charges!!!
Just booked a late May flight for 2 bods to Guernsey. £ 44-00 each pay p/p, plus tax. Great I thought.
Then on the final bill they have added £ 57-00 for tax (£20-00) and 'other surcharges'.
I just hate companies that try to hide things. These are fixed costs and should be build into the advertised price, not just to add to the bottom line.
If I buy a can of beans form Tesco, I don;t want to get to the till and be told it's 10p for the beans 1.75 p for tax and 3p for a can security surcharge.
Just booked a late May flight for 2 bods to Guernsey. £ 44-00 each pay p/p, plus tax. Great I thought.
Then on the final bill they have added £ 57-00 for tax (£20-00) and 'other surcharges'.
I just hate companies that try to hide things. These are fixed costs and should be build into the advertised price, not just to add to the bottom line.
If I buy a can of beans form Tesco, I don;t want to get to the till and be told it's 10p for the beans 1.75 p for tax and 3p for a can security surcharge.
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Well im based at egns for FlyBe as a SLF agent...and from what i have heard from my boss the Q400 costs the same to run as the small 30 seater dash?!?! (think its somewhere around 30
)...i personally cant work out how a huge over stretched dash can cost the same but you never know?!
They are nice planes inside and comes with a very posh glass cokpit! (quite stuffed if they is a short circuit!)
The only bad design about the Q400 is the back hold door...one wrong move and then it comes off and takes 4 hours to put abck in!!!
)...i personally cant work out how a huge over stretched dash can cost the same but you never know?!They are nice planes inside and comes with a very posh glass cokpit! (quite stuffed if they is a short circuit!)
The only bad design about the Q400 is the back hold door...one wrong move and then it comes off and takes 4 hours to put abck in!!!
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It seems that the extra airframes are being robbed from other bases (ie EDI and LGW), bit sad for the crews that now have to shift base or type. Who in their right mind would want a Q400 type rating? Surely the most worthless type rating in the world (except for maybe Concorde...)
Feel sorry for the crews that offered to go to SOU, only to get shafted with an overnight IBZ. I wonder if the crew will get a HOTAC for the split... nah, of course not.
wing_nut1
The cost of running the lesser Dash 8's is considerably more (as they carry so many less pax with only a slightly lower cost per hour).
Oscar Duece
If the cost is clearly stated as "plus tax", what exactly is hidden? I think you will find that all the relevant charges are clearly laid out on the website.
BTW how much is the next cheapest ticket to GCI? Thought so.
Feel sorry for the crews that offered to go to SOU, only to get shafted with an overnight IBZ. I wonder if the crew will get a HOTAC for the split... nah, of course not.
wing_nut1
The cost of running the lesser Dash 8's is considerably more (as they carry so many less pax with only a slightly lower cost per hour).
Oscar Duece
If the cost is clearly stated as "plus tax", what exactly is hidden? I think you will find that all the relevant charges are clearly laid out on the website.
BTW how much is the next cheapest ticket to GCI? Thought so.
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Q400 confirmation
FlyBE. places record US$818 million contract
for Bombardier Q400 aircraft
FlyBE. today signed a record order with Bombardier Aerospace of Canada,
worth $818 million. The contract specifies 17 firm orders and 20 options
for delivery from June 2003 to June 2006. The 20 options can be exercised
until 2008. This contract is the largest aircraft deal worldwide so far
this year.
This important strategic decision by FlyBE., sets the course for its
long-term fleet replacement and enables it to reinforce its position as the
UK's number one regional low fares airline. The new Q400s, which join an
existing four in the fleet, will replace seven smaller Dash 8s and four
Bombardier Regional Jets. These aircraft will leave the fleet
simultaneously with the arrival of the new aircraft.
Four Q400s will be accepted in 2003 with the first arriving in June. Eight
Q400s will follow in 2004; two in 2005 and three in 2006. It is planned
that three of the new aircraft will be based at Southampton, FlyBE.'s newest
hub, providing the possibility of route expansion or increase of capacity on
existing routes.
The Q400, which combines high-speed performance and low operating costs on a
par with the Boeing 737, will enable FlyBE. to compete effectively in the
regional low fares sector. Over the past 12 months, the airline has
successfully repositioned itself as the leading low fare regional airline,
serving 17 regional airports throughout the UK and from this summer, 20
international destinations.
FlyBE. will operate flights to 12 destinations from Southampton this
summer - Belfast City, Dublin, Jersey, Guernsey, Geneva, Milan Bergamo,
Murcia, Malaga, Toulouse, Alicante, Ibiza and Bergerac.
"The Q400 is delivering fantastically low operating costs at FlyBE., a
benefit which we are passing directly on to our passengers with low fares as
we expand our European network," said Jim French, managing director of
FlyBE. "We announced last year our intention to streamline our fleet to two
aircraft types. With the announcement today to standardize on the Q400, we
are well on track as we rebalance our network with a complementary mix of
business and leisure routes."
Mr. French added, "The jet performance of the Q400 is a major selling point,
together with its exceptionally quiet and comfortable cabin. Passenger
reaction has been extremely positive."
FlyBE. introduced the Q400 in December 2001 on its flights from Birmingham
to Scotland. The aircraft combines exceptional cabin comfort with the speed
and technology of a jet, but at turboprop costs. The Q400s are the world's
most environmentally friendly aircraft, in addition to reduced fuel burn
they have the lowest noise foot print of any comparable passenger airliner,
with noise levels at a fraction of those generated by comparable Boeing
aircraft.
The Q400 also boasts an extremely quiet and low vibration cabin environment
thanks to its superb Noise and Vibration Suppression (NVS) system. In
addition, the Q400 gives FlyBE. an edge with its special operating
characteristics, enabling the airline to utilise the aircraft on shorter
runways such as London City and Belfast City Airports, without any payload
restrictions.
FlyBE., will carry more than 3.5 million passengers on its network this year
with its BAe 146 and Bombardier fleet. The airline has a workforce of
1,000, plus 500 at sister organization British European Aviation Services,
based in Exeter. FlyBE.'s principal operating bases are at Southampton,
Birmingham, Belfast and the Channel Islands. FlyBE. has a 25-year history,
from a small commuter airline providing scheduled services between mainland
UK and the Channel Islands in the mid 1980s, to Europe's largest independent
regional airline.
for Bombardier Q400 aircraft
FlyBE. today signed a record order with Bombardier Aerospace of Canada,
worth $818 million. The contract specifies 17 firm orders and 20 options
for delivery from June 2003 to June 2006. The 20 options can be exercised
until 2008. This contract is the largest aircraft deal worldwide so far
this year.
This important strategic decision by FlyBE., sets the course for its
long-term fleet replacement and enables it to reinforce its position as the
UK's number one regional low fares airline. The new Q400s, which join an
existing four in the fleet, will replace seven smaller Dash 8s and four
Bombardier Regional Jets. These aircraft will leave the fleet
simultaneously with the arrival of the new aircraft.
Four Q400s will be accepted in 2003 with the first arriving in June. Eight
Q400s will follow in 2004; two in 2005 and three in 2006. It is planned
that three of the new aircraft will be based at Southampton, FlyBE.'s newest
hub, providing the possibility of route expansion or increase of capacity on
existing routes.
The Q400, which combines high-speed performance and low operating costs on a
par with the Boeing 737, will enable FlyBE. to compete effectively in the
regional low fares sector. Over the past 12 months, the airline has
successfully repositioned itself as the leading low fare regional airline,
serving 17 regional airports throughout the UK and from this summer, 20
international destinations.
FlyBE. will operate flights to 12 destinations from Southampton this
summer - Belfast City, Dublin, Jersey, Guernsey, Geneva, Milan Bergamo,
Murcia, Malaga, Toulouse, Alicante, Ibiza and Bergerac.
"The Q400 is delivering fantastically low operating costs at FlyBE., a
benefit which we are passing directly on to our passengers with low fares as
we expand our European network," said Jim French, managing director of
FlyBE. "We announced last year our intention to streamline our fleet to two
aircraft types. With the announcement today to standardize on the Q400, we
are well on track as we rebalance our network with a complementary mix of
business and leisure routes."
Mr. French added, "The jet performance of the Q400 is a major selling point,
together with its exceptionally quiet and comfortable cabin. Passenger
reaction has been extremely positive."
FlyBE. introduced the Q400 in December 2001 on its flights from Birmingham
to Scotland. The aircraft combines exceptional cabin comfort with the speed
and technology of a jet, but at turboprop costs. The Q400s are the world's
most environmentally friendly aircraft, in addition to reduced fuel burn
they have the lowest noise foot print of any comparable passenger airliner,
with noise levels at a fraction of those generated by comparable Boeing
aircraft.
The Q400 also boasts an extremely quiet and low vibration cabin environment
thanks to its superb Noise and Vibration Suppression (NVS) system. In
addition, the Q400 gives FlyBE. an edge with its special operating
characteristics, enabling the airline to utilise the aircraft on shorter
runways such as London City and Belfast City Airports, without any payload
restrictions.
FlyBE., will carry more than 3.5 million passengers on its network this year
with its BAe 146 and Bombardier fleet. The airline has a workforce of
1,000, plus 500 at sister organization British European Aviation Services,
based in Exeter. FlyBE.'s principal operating bases are at Southampton,
Birmingham, Belfast and the Channel Islands. FlyBE. has a 25-year history,
from a small commuter airline providing scheduled services between mainland
UK and the Channel Islands in the mid 1980s, to Europe's largest independent
regional airline.
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So, I take it that this order will initially see the retirement of the older 'clockwork' Dash a/c as the new Q's arrive, followed by a fleet expansion in the years to come?
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It would be accurate to say that props do have a negative passenger appeal but convenience is more important for most people. If you can fly out of your local airport for the same price then I can't think of many who would drive an extra 75 miles to London in order to specifically fly on a jet. Damn sure I wouldn't, especially on a sector under 3 hrs. SOU passengers are used to props anyway, only recently have BACX changed to operating ERJ's on some of their routes.
Passengers want low fares, if it means flying on a prop then so be it. If you don't want to fly on a prop then you don't have to. Their are lots of shiny jets up at the many London airports that can whisk you away for a similar cost, all you need to do is add the hassle/cost of travelling and parking, which will probably have the effect of adding 50% of the cost of the fare you will be paying.
The order will see the retirement and return of the Dash Q200/300 fleets to Bombardier, and the CRJ's. One has already been painted into it's next airlines colours, that of Sahara Airlines of India. The remaining CRJ's should be gone within the next few months.
Passengers want low fares, if it means flying on a prop then so be it. If you don't want to fly on a prop then you don't have to. Their are lots of shiny jets up at the many London airports that can whisk you away for a similar cost, all you need to do is add the hassle/cost of travelling and parking, which will probably have the effect of adding 50% of the cost of the fare you will be paying.
The order will see the retirement and return of the Dash Q200/300 fleets to Bombardier, and the CRJ's. One has already been painted into it's next airlines colours, that of Sahara Airlines of India. The remaining CRJ's should be gone within the next few months.
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According to five news the new aircraft will be based at Belfast City, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Southampton and the Channel Islands. It is said it is to be the biggest aircraft order this year.
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Personally from a pax viewpoint the Q400 very nice; biggest problem more likely reliability as I wasn't best pleased at tonight's JER-SOU being 2hrs late due tech as I missed the footy.
Nice of flybe. to stump up £14 in refreshment vouchers (I got hammered at their expense) but was expecting nothing.
Anyhow, judging from the number of Titans, empty positioning in flybe. to SOU do I assume that the Q400s aren't exactly reliable anyway? When 'DL' did turn up tonight we zoomed back at FL90 which made me wonder if the pressurisation was knackered....and if so how would it have managed its lunchtime Bergamo rotation without clobbering the Alps?
Nice of flybe. to stump up £14 in refreshment vouchers (I got hammered at their expense) but was expecting nothing.
Anyhow, judging from the number of Titans, empty positioning in flybe. to SOU do I assume that the Q400s aren't exactly reliable anyway? When 'DL' did turn up tonight we zoomed back at FL90 which made me wonder if the pressurisation was knackered....and if so how would it have managed its lunchtime Bergamo rotation without clobbering the Alps?
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Hydroforming Bushmaster, the Q400 often flies from the channel isles back to SOU at 9000ft and it has often puzzled me as to why it doesnt go any higher...
As regards travelling on a prop, personally speaking I would much rather fly on an aircraft which has a two/aisle/two arrangement than the three/aisle/three of a 737, so at least we (a couplke) wouldnt have to sit next to some fat smelly person we didn't know!!! Plus the high wing Q400 means a great view from every seat.
As regards travelling on a prop, personally speaking I would much rather fly on an aircraft which has a two/aisle/two arrangement than the three/aisle/three of a 737, so at least we (a couplke) wouldnt have to sit next to some fat smelly person we didn't know!!! Plus the high wing Q400 means a great view from every seat.
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Dont see Ryan Air EasyJet rushing out to buy turboprops.
737 or A319 can operate 12 sectors a day carry up to 1200 pax
with 2 operating crews.
Turboprops are realy good on the odd specialised routes.
Tuboprops are complicated, they vibrate, they do not fly high enough or fast enough, they suffer from icing problems.
To get Turboprops to vibrate less like the Q400 makes them even more complicated.
They cost nearly as much to manufacture as jet aircraft and especially in Europe are only economical, when virtualy given away by desperate manufacturers who cannot sell aircraft .
Or when old and suitable for freight , which could not care less.
As to what aircraft pax prefer.
No contest
Jet aircraft.
Pax think , Dambusters when they see props.
737 or A319 can operate 12 sectors a day carry up to 1200 pax
with 2 operating crews.
Turboprops are realy good on the odd specialised routes.
Tuboprops are complicated, they vibrate, they do not fly high enough or fast enough, they suffer from icing problems.
To get Turboprops to vibrate less like the Q400 makes them even more complicated.
They cost nearly as much to manufacture as jet aircraft and especially in Europe are only economical, when virtualy given away by desperate manufacturers who cannot sell aircraft .
Or when old and suitable for freight , which could not care less.
As to what aircraft pax prefer.
No contest
Jet aircraft.
Pax think , Dambusters when they see props.
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According to report in Newcastle Journal this morning Newcastle is to get a capacity by a third. They have also announced capacity increase on the Jersey route aswell
Foundation Diggers post misses much of the point. No, Easyjet and Ryanair won't rush out to buy Q400s, they don't need to because they are operating routes which generate lots of passengers. But operate a 737 with 78 pax and your seat cost per mile doubles whereas the Q400 equals that of a full 73. So Flybe are right, for regional airports and low density routes they can offer prices which they couldn't do with a jet.
Regarding tech issues - at the moment if one Q400 goes tech then you will see invariably see a different aircraft turn up, as the other 3 are busy all the time out of BHX. When the 17 new a/c arrive this won't be so noticeable as there wil be more flexibility to shuffle aircraft around.
As for the levels across the channel, the fuel flows don't change much between 90 and (say)150, so it's advantageous to stay low and let the aircraft accelerate sooner. The airborne time from SOU to JER is only about 25 minutes with about 12 mins in the level cruise, so it's hardly worth climbing (although going up to 110 or 120 would avoid the 250kts speed limit).
In the end it will be up to the passengers to decide, and at the moment the loads are high and the fare structure has been designed very carefully (as with the other low cost carriers). Time wil tell, but it would be a shame if we as pilots knock the aircraft just because we prefer to fly a jet.
Regarding tech issues - at the moment if one Q400 goes tech then you will see invariably see a different aircraft turn up, as the other 3 are busy all the time out of BHX. When the 17 new a/c arrive this won't be so noticeable as there wil be more flexibility to shuffle aircraft around.
As for the levels across the channel, the fuel flows don't change much between 90 and (say)150, so it's advantageous to stay low and let the aircraft accelerate sooner. The airborne time from SOU to JER is only about 25 minutes with about 12 mins in the level cruise, so it's hardly worth climbing (although going up to 110 or 120 would avoid the 250kts speed limit).
In the end it will be up to the passengers to decide, and at the moment the loads are high and the fare structure has been designed very carefully (as with the other low cost carriers). Time wil tell, but it would be a shame if we as pilots knock the aircraft just because we prefer to fly a jet.
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I have flown many different turboprops and jets and could not care less what I fly.
I do prefer my terms and conditions flying the Jet aircraft.
The turboprop undoubtly offers reasonable economics over short sectors, However there is little operational flexibility.
The 146/RJ also suffers from this problem which has undoubtly contributed to its demise.
I have no personal thing against turboprops, what I cannot understand is a decision to go for an oddball aircraft like the Q400 when such unbeatable deals are available on Airbus and Boeing products.
I have an idea why, but I will keep it to myself in case I get struck off
I do prefer my terms and conditions flying the Jet aircraft.
The turboprop undoubtly offers reasonable economics over short sectors, However there is little operational flexibility.
The 146/RJ also suffers from this problem which has undoubtly contributed to its demise.
I have no personal thing against turboprops, what I cannot understand is a decision to go for an oddball aircraft like the Q400 when such unbeatable deals are available on Airbus and Boeing products.
I have an idea why, but I will keep it to myself in case I get struck off