Unfair Competition - BA/KLM Subsidising Easy Landing Fees
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Unfair Competition - BA/KLM Subsidising Easy Landing Fees
I have it on good authority from a senior management source at Newcastle that not only are Easy not paying any landing fees, they also have a penalty clause which means that if their aircraft are more than 20 minutes late on turn around, the airport pays a financial penalty to Easy.
I'm pretty sure that BA, KLM etc pay the full landing fee. Now wonder Easy and Ryan can undercut the big carrieres if they are being offered preferrential deals at regional airports. Who are the grounstaff likely to prioritise with that type of penalty clause??
The lack of apparent competitiveness of BA's regional service which was mainly due to inappropariate accounting has led to the withdrawl of many of BA's regional services. Perhaps one of the BA or KLM staff could get the BA/KLM managers to take this up with the CEO at Newcastle and at least try and get a level playing field, before any more services collapse.
The Airports Act requires that all operators be treated on equal terms, and it would appear that Newcastle is therefore operating in breach of its licence if this is true.
Why am I interested, I want a proper scheduled service for Newcastle with approprite worldwide connections, not a cheap and cheerful charabang to Prague, and I don't see why I should subsidise their operations with ever escalating BA domestic fares.
I'm pretty sure that BA, KLM etc pay the full landing fee. Now wonder Easy and Ryan can undercut the big carrieres if they are being offered preferrential deals at regional airports. Who are the grounstaff likely to prioritise with that type of penalty clause??
The lack of apparent competitiveness of BA's regional service which was mainly due to inappropariate accounting has led to the withdrawl of many of BA's regional services. Perhaps one of the BA or KLM staff could get the BA/KLM managers to take this up with the CEO at Newcastle and at least try and get a level playing field, before any more services collapse.
The Airports Act requires that all operators be treated on equal terms, and it would appear that Newcastle is therefore operating in breach of its licence if this is true.
Why am I interested, I want a proper scheduled service for Newcastle with approprite worldwide connections, not a cheap and cheerful charabang to Prague, and I don't see why I should subsidise their operations with ever escalating BA domestic fares.
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Charlie 32
Wake up and smell the coffee! Flags are falling - Lo-cos are rising. The market is changing.
If easy/Go hadn't started operations into NCL you would have been shafted by full fare carriers controlling the market and forcing you the consumer to foot the bill. Typically £alot i.e>£200+ for a return flight and you could only go to LHR when they wanted to go.
BA will not serve regional markets if they can't get a commercial return. Just ask Inverness, Jersey, Dublin and Belfast etc (Come to that they may not be able to serve some long haul destinations with their current cost base).
In fact, since BA pulled out of Dublin, the low fare revolution at that location has brought about greater choice of detsination and price for the consumer.
You should read the Airports Act 1986. I'm sure that the managment of Newcastle have - simply because they were the same guys that brought low cost into Bristol. They treat the carriers all the same. They have to by law. However, the CAA clearly states that airlines can pay as much or as little as they so wish provided that agree with the airport management how they will use the airport. So more efficient use could result in lower unit cost per pax (or charges). Similarly, the whole charge may be wrapped up in a per capita charge - i.e. per pax - so that per se they won't pay "landing fees". And if BA or KLM want to do that they could change their business models to reflect that..
Wait a minute they did Go and Buzz - oh and er those new entities didn't sit in the full frills portfolio very well!!!
Times are a changing and I applaud the efforts made by NCL to remove the stranglehold placed on them by the majors. I bet both the local chambers of commerce and toursist authorities welcome direct links to other european airports. And if KLM don't want to go AMS, I'm sure easyJet will oblige.
AA
Wake up and smell the coffee! Flags are falling - Lo-cos are rising. The market is changing.
If easy/Go hadn't started operations into NCL you would have been shafted by full fare carriers controlling the market and forcing you the consumer to foot the bill. Typically £alot i.e>£200+ for a return flight and you could only go to LHR when they wanted to go.
BA will not serve regional markets if they can't get a commercial return. Just ask Inverness, Jersey, Dublin and Belfast etc (Come to that they may not be able to serve some long haul destinations with their current cost base).
In fact, since BA pulled out of Dublin, the low fare revolution at that location has brought about greater choice of detsination and price for the consumer.
You should read the Airports Act 1986. I'm sure that the managment of Newcastle have - simply because they were the same guys that brought low cost into Bristol. They treat the carriers all the same. They have to by law. However, the CAA clearly states that airlines can pay as much or as little as they so wish provided that agree with the airport management how they will use the airport. So more efficient use could result in lower unit cost per pax (or charges). Similarly, the whole charge may be wrapped up in a per capita charge - i.e. per pax - so that per se they won't pay "landing fees". And if BA or KLM want to do that they could change their business models to reflect that..
Wait a minute they did Go and Buzz - oh and er those new entities didn't sit in the full frills portfolio very well!!!
Times are a changing and I applaud the efforts made by NCL to remove the stranglehold placed on them by the majors. I bet both the local chambers of commerce and toursist authorities welcome direct links to other european airports. And if KLM don't want to go AMS, I'm sure easyJet will oblige.
AA
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I don't know the exact details regarding easy at NCL, but most new routes get reduced rates on landing and airport fees for an introductory period.
All airlines have enjoyed this for years and it is a key tool used by airports to attract new business, while assisting the airline as it builds a route and suffers from the high cost of route start-up, advertising, etc. etc.
Par for the course and nothing unusual. I guarantee if BA were to approach NCL tomorrow with proposals for half-a-dozen new routes (as if!), they would be getting very good introductory offers on these services.
All airlines have enjoyed this for years and it is a key tool used by airports to attract new business, while assisting the airline as it builds a route and suffers from the high cost of route start-up, advertising, etc. etc.
Par for the course and nothing unusual. I guarantee if BA were to approach NCL tomorrow with proposals for half-a-dozen new routes (as if!), they would be getting very good introductory offers on these services.
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A lot of EIs recent growth has been to target "new" routes [PRG, VIE, ALC, AGP] and get the airport incentives - BA could do this too just as easily. The locos can shift bases when the incentives run out - look at FR's shifting of flights from SNN to KIR because the airport refused to extend the deal done. Of course MOL spun the end of the contract as a "price increase" which is different to what most people consider an introductory deal implies.
Brunel to Concorde
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UK regional airports are desperate to retain their locos and will do anything that is remotely legal to keep them.
There is always a nearby airport in the UK waiting to take on any loco that decides to move bases.
There is always a nearby airport in the UK waiting to take on any loco that decides to move bases.
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Merchant,
How many locos do you see "moving bases" in the UK? None!
Go were adding bases.
easyJet have only added, never shifted, bases.
BMibaby.....adding.
The UK Regional airports are trying to capture the growing loco market. They are well aware the growth cannot continue forever as the market is becoming saturated. Airports within a given region will obviously fight to become the preferred loco airport for that region....good business sense.
But as detailed above, start-up incentives are standard, and are open to any airline who comes in with a new route. Not many traditional airlines doing that nowadays!
In trim.
How many locos do you see "moving bases" in the UK? None!
Go were adding bases.
easyJet have only added, never shifted, bases.
BMibaby.....adding.
The UK Regional airports are trying to capture the growing loco market. They are well aware the growth cannot continue forever as the market is becoming saturated. Airports within a given region will obviously fight to become the preferred loco airport for that region....good business sense.
But as detailed above, start-up incentives are standard, and are open to any airline who comes in with a new route. Not many traditional airlines doing that nowadays!
In trim.
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FYI-Ba have not pulled out of DUB. They still operate BRs and LGW.If you're talking about the Mainline service in the 80's- well that was well before the locos had a market penetration and thus negates your point. In fact when BA mainline pulled out of DUB, ryanair were losing money, piloted by ex Romanian Airforce guys and were based with a primarily atr fleet and the dreadful bac1-11 out of wat though with a dub presence. Also fyi- as stated above new routes get promotional fees. In fact what has happenned in ei is the result of aer rianta giving all new routes these promotional fees, not alc/prg or gva giving them the fees.
on a seperate note have noticed that the ba gatwick is now parked away from the terminal at ncl, why is this? who now uses gate 04 or gate 08 in ncl?
on a seperate note have noticed that the ba gatwick is now parked away from the terminal at ncl, why is this? who now uses gate 04 or gate 08 in ncl?
Brunel to Concorde
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In trim,
That's the point I was trying to make - not very well, obviously.
I was responding to FR moving from SNN to KIR and pointed out that UK regional airports are desperate to avoid such a thing happening here.
I have believed for some time that the UK market is saturated with lo cos. I cannot believe that there are enough pax available for them all at all times, even if they gave the seats away.
But like the railway mania of Victorian days when no self-respecting town of almost any size wanted to be left out, so it is with lo cos and regional airports.
It's always the same: Desperate regional airport is delighted to announce the arrival of Headless Chicken Airways. This proves the immense demand for low cost flights in this area and we are delighted that our airport has been chosen etc etc. More truthfully they should just say that it is Buggins' turn.
That's the point I was trying to make - not very well, obviously.
I was responding to FR moving from SNN to KIR and pointed out that UK regional airports are desperate to avoid such a thing happening here.
I have believed for some time that the UK market is saturated with lo cos. I cannot believe that there are enough pax available for them all at all times, even if they gave the seats away.
But like the railway mania of Victorian days when no self-respecting town of almost any size wanted to be left out, so it is with lo cos and regional airports.
It's always the same: Desperate regional airport is delighted to announce the arrival of Headless Chicken Airways. This proves the immense demand for low cost flights in this area and we are delighted that our airport has been chosen etc etc. More truthfully they should just say that it is Buggins' turn.
