Newquay - Plymouth - Gatwick
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Flightrider, Malcolm Naylor now works for Sutton Harbour Holdings; see http://www.sutton-harbour.co.uk/docu...n_-_Naylor.pdf
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Flightrider,
stolport's link could be grist to your mill, but is Mr Naylor working primarily on plans and support for Sutton Holdings' super airport at South Hams or for a new airline under the aegis of Sutton Holdings or both?
A scheduled network based on PLH, even with turbo equipment, would be a serious knock to EXT's hopes for more scheds, and would also have a marginal effect on BRS.
stolport's link could be grist to your mill, but is Mr Naylor working primarily on plans and support for Sutton Holdings' super airport at South Hams or for a new airline under the aegis of Sutton Holdings or both?
A scheduled network based on PLH, even with turbo equipment, would be a serious knock to EXT's hopes for more scheds, and would also have a marginal effect on BRS.
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NQY To BRS is available with Ryanair. Little brother was flying home from Edi to Culdrose, with the Navy picking up the tab. Fed up with training the end of the route, tried out the nqy service.
The plane was as clean as an east end minicab, got to overhead nqy, but weather was bit foggy and the dog of a 732 had to divert to brs. Said brother got of plane to be told Cornwalls sort of that a way, good luck / goodbye.
Needless to say never again.
The plane was as clean as an east end minicab, got to overhead nqy, but weather was bit foggy and the dog of a 732 had to divert to brs. Said brother got of plane to be told Cornwalls sort of that a way, good luck / goodbye.
Needless to say never again.
Last edited by Hawk; 7th Mar 2003 at 08:38.
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Don't quite follow this one Oscar.
Do you mean your brother flew EDI-STN then caught the FR STN-NQY flight which was diverted to BRS?
There are certainly no scheduled FR BRS-NQY flights - FR only flies to DUB from BRS.
I wonder why your brother's flight did not put in at EXT which is 75 miles nearer to Newquay than BRS. Turn-up for the book actually, flights are usually diverted FROM BRS because of the early morning and late evening fog and mist that lives there for much of the year.
Do you mean your brother flew EDI-STN then caught the FR STN-NQY flight which was diverted to BRS?
There are certainly no scheduled FR BRS-NQY flights - FR only flies to DUB from BRS.
I wonder why your brother's flight did not put in at EXT which is 75 miles nearer to Newquay than BRS. Turn-up for the book actually, flights are usually diverted FROM BRS because of the early morning and late evening fog and mist that lives there for much of the year.
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Yes via stn.
I just couldn't believe how dire their customer service was. Sorry weather, you'll have to get a train or something, find it yourself. Just no effort to do anything...
I just couldn't believe how dire their customer service was. Sorry weather, you'll have to get a train or something, find it yourself. Just no effort to do anything...
Thread Starter
Heard on Pirate FM today that tenders were being invited to look at the feasability of the new SW airport to replace PLY/BRS/EXT/NQY, so we are a long way down the road on that one then .... not!
I would have thought the proposed new airport in South Wales/Severn Estuary would be a more likely place to take traffic from Bristol.
Bring back Westward Airways Islander thats what I say......
I would have thought the proposed new airport in South Wales/Severn Estuary would be a more likely place to take traffic from Bristol.
Bring back Westward Airways Islander thats what I say......
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GROUNDHOG,
I agree with you about BRS, but I have never been aware that the South Hams proposal was intended to be a replacement for BRS.
Recently yet another idea for the old chestnut of a Severn Estuary airport (to replace BRS and CWL) has been submitted to the government by a group of businessmen and others. It is intended to be on the Welsh side near the new Severn Crossing. It won't see the light of day.
In the government's consultation document on the future of air transport is mention of a new major airport at Pilning, just north of Bristol on the English side of the Severn. Even the likelihood of this happening is virtually zero, because it depends on no further expansion in the south east airports.
In my view expansion of air services in the south west and south Wales will occur naturally at the current airports. It has to be remembered that at present BRS carries almost twice as many passengers as the combined total for CWL, EXT, PLH and NQY. So there is plenty of scope for the others to begin the catching up process without the need for further airports.
I agree with you about BRS, but I have never been aware that the South Hams proposal was intended to be a replacement for BRS.
Recently yet another idea for the old chestnut of a Severn Estuary airport (to replace BRS and CWL) has been submitted to the government by a group of businessmen and others. It is intended to be on the Welsh side near the new Severn Crossing. It won't see the light of day.
In the government's consultation document on the future of air transport is mention of a new major airport at Pilning, just north of Bristol on the English side of the Severn. Even the likelihood of this happening is virtually zero, because it depends on no further expansion in the south east airports.
In my view expansion of air services in the south west and south Wales will occur naturally at the current airports. It has to be remembered that at present BRS carries almost twice as many passengers as the combined total for CWL, EXT, PLH and NQY. So there is plenty of scope for the others to begin the catching up process without the need for further airports.
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Welkyboy,
My apologies for posting whilst tired. Indeed my 20mins is for EXT-PLH, which indeed is breaking the legal speed limit, but can be done on a regular basis, and has been. Average time of 35mins when relaxed.
South Hams airport will never happen. As with the Seven Estuary airport, these sites impact on the local environment in such a big way, that the government will never be able to clear a project like the two mentioned above.
If South Hams were to get the go ahead, it would not compete with Bristol in any size, shape, or form. A journey time from Bristol (the centre) to Plymouth is knocking on two hours, for the same time, you can drive to LHR or BHX, and travel with real airlines, from a real airport. So forget BRS from the calculations.
South Hams can only compete for the current traffic using EXT or NQY, and that market is not huge by any means. Low-Costs will certainly increase the amount of passengers able to use air services, but people who live in that part of the world, rarely want to get out! Inbreds and all that........
My apologies for posting whilst tired. Indeed my 20mins is for EXT-PLH, which indeed is breaking the legal speed limit, but can be done on a regular basis, and has been. Average time of 35mins when relaxed.
South Hams airport will never happen. As with the Seven Estuary airport, these sites impact on the local environment in such a big way, that the government will never be able to clear a project like the two mentioned above.
If South Hams were to get the go ahead, it would not compete with Bristol in any size, shape, or form. A journey time from Bristol (the centre) to Plymouth is knocking on two hours, for the same time, you can drive to LHR or BHX, and travel with real airlines, from a real airport. So forget BRS from the calculations.
South Hams can only compete for the current traffic using EXT or NQY, and that market is not huge by any means. Low-Costs will certainly increase the amount of passengers able to use air services, but people who live in that part of the world, rarely want to get out! Inbreds and all that........
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If the expansion of the the airports is allowed the grow naturally
, the words expansion and grow will not be the correct words to use, more like stagnate or close.
Bristol airport i believe is not part of the SHH new airport idea.
The new airport was only put forward because the governments
white paper basically asked the regions to put forward what they think the air transport needs are for the next 20-30 YEARS, I SAY AGAIN 20-30 YEARS.
As a region the south west has the highest passenger loss(that is more passengers leave this region to take flight from outside the region than any other region).
A new airport just outside Ply and the closure of EXT makes sense long term , for the following reasons;
1.The land it would be built on is designated for houses anyway,
and contrary to popular belief is not in the heart of the south hams.
2.PLY is resticted on its current site.
3.EXT is too close to London for flights to London(history proves that) and is too close to BRS to attract Low cost airlines and so
will only ever be a bucket spade airport.By closing the land could be used for housing.
4.BRS future is really tied with south wales. Maybe the severn esturay idea would be a good idea LONG TERM I SAY AGAIN we
are talking LONG TERM.
Right then thats what should happen. But now i'll give you my prediction on what will happen.
1. PLY will close within 5 years due to the viability of a airline operating turboprops on its current site and the fact that the local city council is so cash strapped it will not be able to help
out.
2.EXT will remain a bucket a spade airport, because Devon county council is run by Devonians ( ok stating the obivous) and they cannot think too far ahead.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS AIR TRANSPORT WILL REDUCE OR AT BEST
STAGNATE FOR THE SOUTH WEST REGION ,AND YOU WILL ALL
HAVE TO CONTINUE TO TRAVEL OUT OF THE AREA FOR A DESCENT
AIRPORT. 20- 30 YEARS DOWN THE LINE YOU WILL REGRET A
MISSED OPPORTUNITY.
, the words expansion and grow will not be the correct words to use, more like stagnate or close.
Bristol airport i believe is not part of the SHH new airport idea.
The new airport was only put forward because the governments
white paper basically asked the regions to put forward what they think the air transport needs are for the next 20-30 YEARS, I SAY AGAIN 20-30 YEARS.
As a region the south west has the highest passenger loss(that is more passengers leave this region to take flight from outside the region than any other region).
A new airport just outside Ply and the closure of EXT makes sense long term , for the following reasons;
1.The land it would be built on is designated for houses anyway,
and contrary to popular belief is not in the heart of the south hams.
2.PLY is resticted on its current site.
3.EXT is too close to London for flights to London(history proves that) and is too close to BRS to attract Low cost airlines and so
will only ever be a bucket spade airport.By closing the land could be used for housing.
4.BRS future is really tied with south wales. Maybe the severn esturay idea would be a good idea LONG TERM I SAY AGAIN we
are talking LONG TERM.
Right then thats what should happen. But now i'll give you my prediction on what will happen.
1. PLY will close within 5 years due to the viability of a airline operating turboprops on its current site and the fact that the local city council is so cash strapped it will not be able to help
out.
2.EXT will remain a bucket a spade airport, because Devon county council is run by Devonians ( ok stating the obivous) and they cannot think too far ahead.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS AIR TRANSPORT WILL REDUCE OR AT BEST
STAGNATE FOR THE SOUTH WEST REGION ,AND YOU WILL ALL
HAVE TO CONTINUE TO TRAVEL OUT OF THE AREA FOR A DESCENT
AIRPORT. 20- 30 YEARS DOWN THE LINE YOU WILL REGRET A
MISSED OPPORTUNITY.
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Ryanair diversions from NQY
MerchantVenturer,
Major reason for not diverting into Exeter is cost - extension charges are extortionate after closing time (despite airport effectively open to allow mail flights around midnight), which is about 5pm on weekends during Winter (from memory).
I have heard a Ryanair inbound NQY calling Exeter ops to request diversion, to be told airfield closing in 30 mins, you can land but not take off again...the a/c diverted to Southampton.
In the past when Bristol fogged out, Go a/c have landed at Exeter, but not let the passengers out because they would have to pay pax fees, so kept them in the cabin for 2 hrs before departing back to Bristol.
Past experience with a company trying to start scheduled services from Plymouth and Exeter to London City and the Channel Islands, resulted in a lot of people saying they might fly with us, but not much actual support from potential pax, airports or authorities.
Major reason for not diverting into Exeter is cost - extension charges are extortionate after closing time (despite airport effectively open to allow mail flights around midnight), which is about 5pm on weekends during Winter (from memory).
I have heard a Ryanair inbound NQY calling Exeter ops to request diversion, to be told airfield closing in 30 mins, you can land but not take off again...the a/c diverted to Southampton.
In the past when Bristol fogged out, Go a/c have landed at Exeter, but not let the passengers out because they would have to pay pax fees, so kept them in the cabin for 2 hrs before departing back to Bristol.
Past experience with a company trying to start scheduled services from Plymouth and Exeter to London City and the Channel Islands, resulted in a lot of people saying they might fly with us, but not much actual support from potential pax, airports or authorities.
Brunel to Concorde
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Phantom99,
Thanks for information re Exeter/diversions etc.
FREQSEPARATOR and Fosters Expat,
My earlier remark about the airports growing naturally meant exactly that: it may well be that growth at some of them will be negative growth that might indeed lead to closure of one or more.
Does the south west need four airports? In saying this I accept that many in Devon and Cornwall do not regard Bristol and its airport as being in the south west, but it is in the 'west country'. I will answer my own question and say that one airport is quite sufficient for Devon and Cornwall, not the current three.
For the south west/west as a region it is unfortunate in many ways that the major conurbation is at one end of that region. The obvious contender to be the one airport for Devon/Cornwall is Exeter but like Bristol in the region, Exeter is at the extreme end of the Devon/Cornwall sub region.
Geographically and economically it would be better for the Devon/Cornwall airport to be in the Plymouth area, but PLH can never meet the necessary requirements. That is why South Hams has been proposed but it will never come to pass.
So what are we left with? The three current airports and they will have to grow naturally and I point out again my definition of what I believe this means.
I agree that a Bristol/Cardiff airport would be a significant regional airport but like, South Hams, a Severnside airport will never happen.
So BRS, although on the wrong side of the city (away from the bouyant northern fringe, motorways and mainline railways) with a constricted site, short runway and weather problems, will continue as the major airport for the south west/west/ south Wales regions. It currently has 3.5 million annual pax with about sixty scheduled arrivals and the same number of departures each day, plus about fifty weekly winter charters and one hundred plus summer charters each week. There is room to almost double the size of the new terminal and also to extend the runway if there is the will. It is only noisy NIIMBYs in local villages that prevents the runway extension from happening.
Summary: ideal world - new airport for Devon/Cornwall; new airport for Bristol/Cardiff.
Summary: real world - status quo.
What a pity the political will is not present to develop Filton. It has motorways and mainline railways on its doorstep, a big site, decent size runway and is on the 'right' side of the city. Trouble is tens of thousands live under its westerly runway approach path.
Thanks for information re Exeter/diversions etc.
FREQSEPARATOR and Fosters Expat,
My earlier remark about the airports growing naturally meant exactly that: it may well be that growth at some of them will be negative growth that might indeed lead to closure of one or more.
Does the south west need four airports? In saying this I accept that many in Devon and Cornwall do not regard Bristol and its airport as being in the south west, but it is in the 'west country'. I will answer my own question and say that one airport is quite sufficient for Devon and Cornwall, not the current three.
For the south west/west as a region it is unfortunate in many ways that the major conurbation is at one end of that region. The obvious contender to be the one airport for Devon/Cornwall is Exeter but like Bristol in the region, Exeter is at the extreme end of the Devon/Cornwall sub region.
Geographically and economically it would be better for the Devon/Cornwall airport to be in the Plymouth area, but PLH can never meet the necessary requirements. That is why South Hams has been proposed but it will never come to pass.
So what are we left with? The three current airports and they will have to grow naturally and I point out again my definition of what I believe this means.
I agree that a Bristol/Cardiff airport would be a significant regional airport but like, South Hams, a Severnside airport will never happen.
So BRS, although on the wrong side of the city (away from the bouyant northern fringe, motorways and mainline railways) with a constricted site, short runway and weather problems, will continue as the major airport for the south west/west/ south Wales regions. It currently has 3.5 million annual pax with about sixty scheduled arrivals and the same number of departures each day, plus about fifty weekly winter charters and one hundred plus summer charters each week. There is room to almost double the size of the new terminal and also to extend the runway if there is the will. It is only noisy NIIMBYs in local villages that prevents the runway extension from happening.
Summary: ideal world - new airport for Devon/Cornwall; new airport for Bristol/Cardiff.
Summary: real world - status quo.
What a pity the political will is not present to develop Filton. It has motorways and mainline railways on its doorstep, a big site, decent size runway and is on the 'right' side of the city. Trouble is tens of thousands live under its westerly runway approach path.
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MerchantVenturer,
Could not agree with your more! Don't quite understand why you may have thought I did'nt initially?
You points are al valid, and acurate. What more could I say.......
Back To The Bunker!
Could not agree with your more! Don't quite understand why you may have thought I did'nt initially?
You points are al valid, and acurate. What more could I say.......
Back To The Bunker!
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Fosters,
I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought we were at cross purposes over this topic. Sorry if I did so.
I was just amplifying my thinking and, as you and FRESEPARATOR had responded following my earlier post in this thread, I thought I would address my comments to you both.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought we were at cross purposes over this topic. Sorry if I did so.
I was just amplifying my thinking and, as you and FRESEPARATOR had responded following my earlier post in this thread, I thought I would address my comments to you both.
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Brymon, BA and Sutton Harbour
Hi chaps,
From BBC Devon website today:
A new regional airline could soon be launched in Plymouth.
Sutton Harbour, owners of the city airport, have confirmed they are in talks with British Airways.
Neither company will say any more about what the talks involve, but it is thought Sutton Harbour will take over the running of BA's Dash-8 planes and launch a new service later this year.
The talks follow news last year that British Airways is to sell all its turbo-prop planes, including the Dash-8s, as it moves to an all-jet fleet.
That would mean pulling out of its service from Plymouth City and Newquay airports, which are too small for jets.
Business Welcome
BA has said it will be keeping the existing services, at least until 2005.
Reports say that the new airline could be called Air South West.
The new regional carrier would be run by Malcolm Naylor, a former managing director of Brymon Airways.
He joined Sutton Harbour in November as head of aviation strategy.
British Airways said: "We talk to many companies and airlines on a number of issues most of which come to nothing, hence our policy on not commenting unless there is something to say."
Gatwick 'Vital'
Devon and Cornwall Business Council (DCBC) said it would welcome Sutton Harbour taking over the planes.
However, a question mark remains over whether any new service would be able to retain the existing slots at Gatwick.
Business leaders say these slots are critical for the future economic success of the region.
DCBC chair Tim Jones said: "It is vital to the region and to the region's economy that we have links into an international hub such as Gatwick.
"We have very poor infrastructure in every other respect and we are not going to get the investment we need in rail or the roads, so we have to keep the air link."
Must admit, I was sceptical at first but hey...I'm getting used to being wrong all the time!
Cheers
Dixie
From BBC Devon website today:
A new regional airline could soon be launched in Plymouth.
Sutton Harbour, owners of the city airport, have confirmed they are in talks with British Airways.
Neither company will say any more about what the talks involve, but it is thought Sutton Harbour will take over the running of BA's Dash-8 planes and launch a new service later this year.
The talks follow news last year that British Airways is to sell all its turbo-prop planes, including the Dash-8s, as it moves to an all-jet fleet.
That would mean pulling out of its service from Plymouth City and Newquay airports, which are too small for jets.
Business Welcome
BA has said it will be keeping the existing services, at least until 2005.
Reports say that the new airline could be called Air South West.
The new regional carrier would be run by Malcolm Naylor, a former managing director of Brymon Airways.
He joined Sutton Harbour in November as head of aviation strategy.
British Airways said: "We talk to many companies and airlines on a number of issues most of which come to nothing, hence our policy on not commenting unless there is something to say."
Gatwick 'Vital'
Devon and Cornwall Business Council (DCBC) said it would welcome Sutton Harbour taking over the planes.
However, a question mark remains over whether any new service would be able to retain the existing slots at Gatwick.
Business leaders say these slots are critical for the future economic success of the region.
DCBC chair Tim Jones said: "It is vital to the region and to the region's economy that we have links into an international hub such as Gatwick.
"We have very poor infrastructure in every other respect and we are not going to get the investment we need in rail or the roads, so we have to keep the air link."
Must admit, I was sceptical at first but hey...I'm getting used to being wrong all the time!
Cheers
Dixie
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agcat,
Currently the deal is off. That was the last I heard, approx three weeks ago. However I'm sure it was just a stall, as oppossed to complete withdrawal by both parties.
Fingers crossed for all involved..........
Back To Sleep!!!!
Currently the deal is off. That was the last I heard, approx three weeks ago. However I'm sure it was just a stall, as oppossed to complete withdrawal by both parties.
Fingers crossed for all involved..........
Back To Sleep!!!!
