GLA slipping
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>>GLA is, and will always be the prefered choice for the few International carriers that choose to fly into Scotland.<<
The pax don't seem to think so. EDI is Scotland's top
performing airport for International Schedule routes.
Check out the CAA statistics on their webpage.
The pax don't seem to think so. EDI is Scotland's top
performing airport for International Schedule routes.
Check out the CAA statistics on their webpage.
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I agree that Joe is not the most impartial observer in this debate; however BAA's own plans certainly support elements of his argument.
For instance, EDI will get a new control tower (building work to start in September next year, operational Jan 2005) soon. It's to be a very elaborate glass-and-steel structure (it looks a bit like a Soyuz rocket) situated where the plastic spitfire currently resides.
The full length taxiways (mentioned above) should be in place at roughly the same time (they cannot be added before the new tower is built as the current lighting system can't support them). BAA is looking at options for high speed exits - however, when you consider that the peak runway movement rate is CURRENTLY between 31 and 36 per hour (i.e. about the same as Stansted's at this time of year) I don't think they're too high up the agenda. Once the full-length taxiways are in place for 06/24, greater use of 12/30 becomes feasible.
The south-east apron extension is currently underway; three new stands in the near future with five more to follow.
As far as accessibility is concerned; obviously GLA will always be better for those on the west coast; but given that a rail link into EDI will inevitably be a diversion of the east coast main line it has the potential to attract those living much further afield (i.e. direct services to Dundee 1hr, Aberdeen 2.5hrs, Newcastle 1.25hrs etc.).
Having said all that, however, I think that the Scotjet plans for transatlantic traffic are pie-in-the-sky at the moment. After reading Joe's post I did some digging - Scotjet will indeed begin operations from EDI next spring, handled by Servisair - but European holiday destinations seem far more likely to start with.
For instance, EDI will get a new control tower (building work to start in September next year, operational Jan 2005) soon. It's to be a very elaborate glass-and-steel structure (it looks a bit like a Soyuz rocket) situated where the plastic spitfire currently resides.
The full length taxiways (mentioned above) should be in place at roughly the same time (they cannot be added before the new tower is built as the current lighting system can't support them). BAA is looking at options for high speed exits - however, when you consider that the peak runway movement rate is CURRENTLY between 31 and 36 per hour (i.e. about the same as Stansted's at this time of year) I don't think they're too high up the agenda. Once the full-length taxiways are in place for 06/24, greater use of 12/30 becomes feasible.
The south-east apron extension is currently underway; three new stands in the near future with five more to follow.
As far as accessibility is concerned; obviously GLA will always be better for those on the west coast; but given that a rail link into EDI will inevitably be a diversion of the east coast main line it has the potential to attract those living much further afield (i.e. direct services to Dundee 1hr, Aberdeen 2.5hrs, Newcastle 1.25hrs etc.).
Having said all that, however, I think that the Scotjet plans for transatlantic traffic are pie-in-the-sky at the moment. After reading Joe's post I did some digging - Scotjet will indeed begin operations from EDI next spring, handled by Servisair - but European holiday destinations seem far more likely to start with.
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1261 ......
When 06 is in use and 8 mile minimum spacing what sort of utilisation does that generate ? How can that possibly be the same as Stansted's with their turn offs and parallel taxiway ? Where do you get your figures ?
BAA is looking at options for high speed exits - however, when you consider that the peak runway movement rate is CURRENTLY between 31 and 36 per hour (i.e. about the same as Stansted's at this time of year) I don't think they're too high up the agenda
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HI
I find it interesting that Joe is on this forum putting out a message with the header about GLA Slipping, whilst as pointed out he is on another newsgroup boasting about EDI figures increasing.
Why did you post the message with its current header on this newsgroup Joe?
Joe did not post the same message to the alt.airports.uk.glasgow newsgroup where I thought it would have been posted by him rather than in this forum.
Please tell us all Joe why you made the posting?
Why did you not post it with the same header in
alt.aiports.uk.edinburgh?
Then again Joe has just gone thru a very hard time in the alt.airports.uk.edinburgh newsgroup for his anti-west views and his constant attacks on GLA.
regards
I find it interesting that Joe is on this forum putting out a message with the header about GLA Slipping, whilst as pointed out he is on another newsgroup boasting about EDI figures increasing.
Why did you post the message with its current header on this newsgroup Joe?
Joe did not post the same message to the alt.airports.uk.glasgow newsgroup where I thought it would have been posted by him rather than in this forum.
Please tell us all Joe why you made the posting?
Why did you not post it with the same header in
alt.aiports.uk.edinburgh?
Then again Joe has just gone thru a very hard time in the alt.airports.uk.edinburgh newsgroup for his anti-west views and his constant attacks on GLA.
regards
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Hi Findo,
The figures I quote are from first-hand experience; I control that runway every (working) day and I know how many movements we handle - we have to provide BAA with detailed movement statistics everyday.
As for Stansted, how can it be the same? I asked them exactly that when I was down there last week; they're not as pressed as you might think (at this time of the year, anyway).
Eight mile spacing? Just plain wrong! The theoretical minimum is six miles; it can often be pushed to four, depending on traffic and wx. Bear in mind that most of our traffic is medium, small or light.
Maybe the rules are "bent" slightly at busy periods, but upon that I couldn't possibly comment. Safety always comes first, as you know.
The figures I quote are from first-hand experience; I control that runway every (working) day and I know how many movements we handle - we have to provide BAA with detailed movement statistics everyday.
As for Stansted, how can it be the same? I asked them exactly that when I was down there last week; they're not as pressed as you might think (at this time of the year, anyway).
Eight mile spacing? Just plain wrong! The theoretical minimum is six miles; it can often be pushed to four, depending on traffic and wx. Bear in mind that most of our traffic is medium, small or light.
Maybe the rules are "bent" slightly at busy periods, but upon that I couldn't possibly comment. Safety always comes first, as you know.
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>>Then again Joe has just gone thru a very hard time in the alt.airports.uk.edinburgh newsgroup for his anti-west views and his constant attacks on GLA. <<
Look John, dedicated newsgroups are for dedicated mutual
views. Folk distressed by the content should not be there in the 1st. place surely?
Or is there an overwhelming ignorant interpretation problem
with the word Edinburgh.?
Strange how my posts to this message board brings out the
usual 'clique'.
Look John, dedicated newsgroups are for dedicated mutual
views. Folk distressed by the content should not be there in the 1st. place surely?
Or is there an overwhelming ignorant interpretation problem
with the word Edinburgh.?
Strange how my posts to this message board brings out the
usual 'clique'.
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Joe,
There is no problem with the word 'Edinburgh', just with those who use it as a means of seeming somewhat 'superior' to those who live in the West, and also to those who understand that GLA doesn't have to attract people from DND, ABZ, or NCL as others have claimed.
The majority of the Scottish population lives in the western part of the country, so therefore, the largest airport is quite rightly situated there. What is so hard to understand about that? No conspiracy theory involved.
Look at airports like JFK, FRA, YYZ where the larger percentage of the population lives closer to those airports, yet are not the capital cities of their respective countries.
I don't hear them complain. Oh, by the way, I don't think you answered all the questions from my previous post.
Anyway, how are you X(cabbot). Got out of Servisair then? Or, was X not playing your game?. To answer your question, yes of course people prefer to fly local, that's why GLA wil always be in front.
BB
Please remember that these ARE anonymous forums. Thanks Hogg
There is no problem with the word 'Edinburgh', just with those who use it as a means of seeming somewhat 'superior' to those who live in the West, and also to those who understand that GLA doesn't have to attract people from DND, ABZ, or NCL as others have claimed.
The majority of the Scottish population lives in the western part of the country, so therefore, the largest airport is quite rightly situated there. What is so hard to understand about that? No conspiracy theory involved.
Look at airports like JFK, FRA, YYZ where the larger percentage of the population lives closer to those airports, yet are not the capital cities of their respective countries.
I don't hear them complain. Oh, by the way, I don't think you answered all the questions from my previous post.
Anyway, how are you X(cabbot). Got out of Servisair then? Or, was X not playing your game?. To answer your question, yes of course people prefer to fly local, that's why GLA wil always be in front.
BB
Please remember that these ARE anonymous forums. Thanks Hogg
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<Having said all that, however, I think that the Scotjet plans for transatlantic traffic are pie-in-the-sky at the moment. After reading Joe's post I did some digging - Scotjet will indeed begin operations from EDI next spring, handled by Servisair - but European holiday destinations seem far more likely to start with.>
Handled by Servisair? Where did you hear that from?
Handled by Servisair? Where did you hear that from?
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>>Anyway, how are you X. Got out of X then? Or, was X not playing your game?. To answer your question, yes of course people prefer to fly local, that's why GLA wil always be in front. >>
This is getting boring! Read the official BAA/CAA figures and
discover that EDI outperforms GLA on every route it competes over.
GLA's socially engineered charter pax, courtesy the High Street
travel chains, are it's strong point. But this strong point is
due to the lack of European charter and long haul from EDI.
I would hardly call GLA local on the strength of mandatory'shell suit' traffic .
This is getting boring! Read the official BAA/CAA figures and
discover that EDI outperforms GLA on every route it competes over.
GLA's socially engineered charter pax, courtesy the High Street
travel chains, are it's strong point. But this strong point is
due to the lack of European charter and long haul from EDI.
I would hardly call GLA local on the strength of mandatory'shell suit' traffic .
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Blue Boy wrote:
<<The majority of the Scottish population lives in the western part of the country, so therefore, the largest airport is quite rightly situated there. What is so hard to understand about that? No conspiracy theory involved.>>
You need to look at your geography! At least it gave me a good laugh, living in Dubai we can probably excuse you...
<<The majority of the Scottish population lives in the western part of the country, so therefore, the largest airport is quite rightly situated there. What is so hard to understand about that? No conspiracy theory involved.>>
You need to look at your geography! At least it gave me a good laugh, living in Dubai we can probably excuse you...
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The south-east apron extension is currently underway; three new stands in the near future with five more to follow
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Joe,
See, there is that East Coast chip on the shoulder again, no one needed to talk about shellsuits or anything else like that, before you brought it up. What shalll we talk about now, WCHR's???
Meeb,
My geography is fine thanks, that's why I dont or used to work for BM Load Control in EDI, or Livingston. (Read my earlier post, I'm from Lenzie, I know who you are, always remember that!!)
I'll always be the one who's laughing
BB
See, there is that East Coast chip on the shoulder again, no one needed to talk about shellsuits or anything else like that, before you brought it up. What shalll we talk about now, WCHR's???
Meeb,
My geography is fine thanks, that's why I dont or used to work for BM Load Control in EDI, or Livingston. (Read my earlier post, I'm from Lenzie, I know who you are, always remember that!!)
I'll always be the one who's laughing
BB
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Blue Boy:
<<Meeb, My geography is fine thanks, that's why I dont or used to work for BM Load Control in EDI, or Livingston. >>
Huh..? Can we have that in English..? Still does not prove you know your geography... Doh!
You mentioned 'chips on shoulders', well yours is HUGE...
<<Meeb, My geography is fine thanks, that's why I dont or used to work for BM Load Control in EDI, or Livingston. >>
Huh..? Can we have that in English..? Still does not prove you know your geography... Doh!
You mentioned 'chips on shoulders', well yours is HUGE...
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What's your point caller?
Geography is one of my strong points, as is Economics. Why don't the pair of you wake up and realise that, even though I'm making a bad case for GLA, other people realise that GLA is the better option.
What's so hard to understand? Is it that chip, mate. We'll always be the one's laughing.
Geography is one of my strong points, as is Economics. Why don't the pair of you wake up and realise that, even though I'm making a bad case for GLA, other people realise that GLA is the better option.
What's so hard to understand? Is it that chip, mate. We'll always be the one's laughing.
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Why all this passion over a few CAA/BAA figures?
Folk can argue until the cows come home with their opinions
about airports, but they cannot argue with official performance figures.
The latest CAA figures point to:
In the 12 months to 30 October 2002, EDI has recorded an average monthly passenger increase of 66,692 against 40,924
at GLA. The net result is EDI adding an average of 25,767 more passengers per month compared to GLA.
In both November and December 2001, GLA handled 13,600 more passengers than EDI in both months. It therefore looks entirely possible that EDI will remove GLA's traditional November and December passenger leads, adding to her leads in February, March and April, 2002.
The figures are readily available on the CAA webpage.
The BAA November figures are out in the next few days.
Folk can argue until the cows come home with their opinions
about airports, but they cannot argue with official performance figures.
The latest CAA figures point to:
In the 12 months to 30 October 2002, EDI has recorded an average monthly passenger increase of 66,692 against 40,924
at GLA. The net result is EDI adding an average of 25,767 more passengers per month compared to GLA.
In both November and December 2001, GLA handled 13,600 more passengers than EDI in both months. It therefore looks entirely possible that EDI will remove GLA's traditional November and December passenger leads, adding to her leads in February, March and April, 2002.
The figures are readily available on the CAA webpage.
The BAA November figures are out in the next few days.
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Ah, the ultimate east-west hate thread. What a joy. Now, which one of the following statements is actually true?
Answers on a postcard...
Scotjet will begin operations from EDI next spring
Passenger numbers at Prestwick are on the increase, but Mr MacAskill said an estimated 50 per cent of the 1.4 million people who landed there last year ended up in the Capital.
EDI will get a new control tower (building work to start in September next year, operational Jan 2005) soon. The full length taxiways (mentioned above) should be in place at roughly the same time
Isn't it better for Scotland if both airports do well?
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Joe Curry
<<Folk can argue until the cows come home with their opinions
about airports, but they cannot argue with official performance figures>>
These figures again???? This debate is going round in circles!!!!
As I said before it's the low cost carriers in EDI that's contributing to most of the rise, and GLA has performed not too badly considering it's second airport at PIK is doing the major business with the low costers.
If PIK didn't exist GLA would be runways ahead of EDI
<<Folk can argue until the cows come home with their opinions
about airports, but they cannot argue with official performance figures>>
These figures again???? This debate is going round in circles!!!!
As I said before it's the low cost carriers in EDI that's contributing to most of the rise, and GLA has performed not too badly considering it's second airport at PIK is doing the major business with the low costers.
If PIK didn't exist GLA would be runways ahead of EDI
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The confirmed September figures for Scotland's central belt
airports are as follows: (Don't flame me, flame the CAA)
CAA : Central Belt (EDI / PIK / GLA) data for September, 2002.
The percentage figure is the Central Belt market share for September.
The figure in brackets is the percentage market share recorded in
September 2001.
ATMs
EDI : 8892 / 49.55% (46.79)
GLA : 7789 / 43.40% (46.87)
PIK : 1266 / 7.05% (6.34)
Aircraft Movements
EDI : 9934 / 42.59% (40.45)
GLA : 9417 / 40.37% (41.70)
PIK : 3974 / 17.04% (17.85)
Mail
EDI : 2370.1t / 96.14% (96.47)
GLA : 95.2t / 3.86% (3.53)
PIK : 0 / 0% (0)
Cargo
EDI : 2054.0t / 34.26% (22.30)
GLA : 770.0t / 12.84% (9.77)
PIK : 3171.9t / 52.90% (67.93)
Terminal Passengers
EDI : 624850 / 40.52% (39.82)
GLA : 785778 / 50.96% (51.77)
PIK : 131283 / 8.51% (8.41)
Terminal Scheduled Passengers
EDI : 576272 / 48.54% (46.34)
GLA : 497498 / 41.91% (44.51)
PIK : 100969 / 9.55% (9.15)
Terminal Charter Passengers
EDI : 48578 / 13.69% (18.62)
GLA : 288280 / 81.27% (75.38)
PIK : 17879 / 5.04% (5.99)
Scheduled International Passengers (all destinations)
EDI : 128409 / 42.67% (43.14)
GLA : 117312 / 38.98% (44.07)
PIK : 55215 / 18.35% (12.79)
Scheduled International Passengers (non-EU destinations)
EDI : 2538 / 4.40% (5.34)
GLA : 49321 / 85.54% (94.66)
PIK : 5799 / 10.06% (0)
Scheduled International Passengers (EU destinations)
EDI : 125871 / 51.74% (50.60)
GLA : 67991 / 27.95% (34.08)
PIK : 49416 / 20.31% (15.32)
International Charter Passengers (non-EU destinations)
EDI : 7495 / 11.47% (13.11)
GLA : 57835 / 88.53% (85.56)
PIK : 0 / 0% (1.32%)
International Charter Passengers (EU destinations)
EDI : 40799 / 14.14% (19.70)
GLA : 229873 / 79.68% (73.37)
PIK : 17832 / 6.18% (6.93)
Domestic Terminal Passengers
EDI : 447863 / 50.54% (47.79)
GLA : 380186 / 42.90 (44.72)
PIK : 58189 / 6.57% (7.50)
Main Market Shares : 12-months to September, 2002.
Figure in brackets is the market share in the 12-months to August)
ATMs
EDI : 50.21% (50.01)
GLA : 42.64% (42.89)
PIK : 7.15% (7.10)
Scheduled Passengers
EDI 48.53% (48.34)
GLA : 41.68% (41.91)
PIK : 9.79% (9.76)
Domestic Passengers
EDI : 49.79% (49.56)
GLA : 43.14% (43.29)
PIK : 7.07% (7.15)
Scheduled International Passengers (all destinations)
EDI : 44.86% (44.88)
GLA : 37.44% (37.99)
PIK : 17.70% (17.13)
Scheduled International Passengers (EU destinations
EDI : 50.67% (50.57)
GLA : 28.51% (29.12)
PIK : 20.82% (20.31)
International Charter Passengers
EDI : 14.70% (15.30)
GLA : 79.26% (78.54)
PIK : 6.04% (6.16)
airports are as follows: (Don't flame me, flame the CAA)
CAA : Central Belt (EDI / PIK / GLA) data for September, 2002.
The percentage figure is the Central Belt market share for September.
The figure in brackets is the percentage market share recorded in
September 2001.
ATMs
EDI : 8892 / 49.55% (46.79)
GLA : 7789 / 43.40% (46.87)
PIK : 1266 / 7.05% (6.34)
Aircraft Movements
EDI : 9934 / 42.59% (40.45)
GLA : 9417 / 40.37% (41.70)
PIK : 3974 / 17.04% (17.85)
EDI : 2370.1t / 96.14% (96.47)
GLA : 95.2t / 3.86% (3.53)
PIK : 0 / 0% (0)
Cargo
EDI : 2054.0t / 34.26% (22.30)
GLA : 770.0t / 12.84% (9.77)
PIK : 3171.9t / 52.90% (67.93)
Terminal Passengers
EDI : 624850 / 40.52% (39.82)
GLA : 785778 / 50.96% (51.77)
PIK : 131283 / 8.51% (8.41)
Terminal Scheduled Passengers
EDI : 576272 / 48.54% (46.34)
GLA : 497498 / 41.91% (44.51)
PIK : 100969 / 9.55% (9.15)
Terminal Charter Passengers
EDI : 48578 / 13.69% (18.62)
GLA : 288280 / 81.27% (75.38)
PIK : 17879 / 5.04% (5.99)
Scheduled International Passengers (all destinations)
EDI : 128409 / 42.67% (43.14)
GLA : 117312 / 38.98% (44.07)
PIK : 55215 / 18.35% (12.79)
Scheduled International Passengers (non-EU destinations)
EDI : 2538 / 4.40% (5.34)
GLA : 49321 / 85.54% (94.66)
PIK : 5799 / 10.06% (0)
Scheduled International Passengers (EU destinations)
EDI : 125871 / 51.74% (50.60)
GLA : 67991 / 27.95% (34.08)
PIK : 49416 / 20.31% (15.32)
International Charter Passengers (non-EU destinations)
EDI : 7495 / 11.47% (13.11)
GLA : 57835 / 88.53% (85.56)
PIK : 0 / 0% (1.32%)
International Charter Passengers (EU destinations)
EDI : 40799 / 14.14% (19.70)
GLA : 229873 / 79.68% (73.37)
PIK : 17832 / 6.18% (6.93)
Domestic Terminal Passengers
EDI : 447863 / 50.54% (47.79)
GLA : 380186 / 42.90 (44.72)
PIK : 58189 / 6.57% (7.50)
Main Market Shares : 12-months to September, 2002.
Figure in brackets is the market share in the 12-months to August)
ATMs
EDI : 50.21% (50.01)
GLA : 42.64% (42.89)
PIK : 7.15% (7.10)
Scheduled Passengers
EDI 48.53% (48.34)
GLA : 41.68% (41.91)
PIK : 9.79% (9.76)
Domestic Passengers
EDI : 49.79% (49.56)
GLA : 43.14% (43.29)
PIK : 7.07% (7.15)
Scheduled International Passengers (all destinations)
EDI : 44.86% (44.88)
GLA : 37.44% (37.99)
PIK : 17.70% (17.13)
Scheduled International Passengers (EU destinations
EDI : 50.67% (50.57)
GLA : 28.51% (29.12)
PIK : 20.82% (20.31)
International Charter Passengers
EDI : 14.70% (15.30)
GLA : 79.26% (78.54)
PIK : 6.04% (6.16)
