SWISS to lay off 140 pilots
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SWISS to lay off 140 pilots
Swiss announced today that five aircraft are to leave the fleet and a total of 300 personnel positions are to be cut 140 of which will be pilots. Additionally the current seven charter MD83 will be replaced by only four A320s.
Unfortunately nobody decided to replace the micky mouse managers
Unfortunately nobody decided to replace the micky mouse managers
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I work for Swiss/Crossair/Swissair (I forget now). When I first started, it was an amazing company with high spirits etc. Now it is totally different. The managment are the most useless, immoral spineless cowards you'll ever meet, oh did I mention compulsive liars? My colleaugues with B permits have been given marching orders and the managment try to call their bluff by saying they are fighting for them to stay...B*&^%s**t!
Whew, got that off my back...
Whew, got that off my back...
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If this news is true then I can only say that history repeats. Historically Swiss will do anything for money,they have no ethic. As long as it has to do with money they will not mind if it is black money,dictators,terrorists or hitlers. They have no mercy, they have no moral. I would rather eat grass then work for people like them. Shame on them. They lied to every one including their own swiss people.
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Historically Swiss will do anything for money,they have no ethic. As long as it has to do with money they will not mind if it is black money,dictators,terrorists or hitlers. They have no mercy, they have no moral.
SWISS is trying to restructure itself into a profitable company. As politics has as much to say in this case as economics, this will be a (to?) slow and probably repetitive process with unknown outcome. I think I remember many forum articles about how much oversized SWISS was and now the same poeple are lamenting about the inevitable downsizeing? Strange. In case you folks are a little bit slow: There will more of this coming. Brace for impact!
SWISS took over the HUB strategy of late Swissair with about 70% of the former SR longhaul fleet. How this should work without restructering (means reducing) the regional network eluded me from the beginning. Seems I was right after all!
Well, anyway, good luck to those who lose their jobs now, as these guys are as little to blame for the whole mess as the 350 SR pilots who lost their jobs a year ago. Some will even be the same...
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unfortunately, they get rid off 3 Saab 2000 , which is one of the money-maker (oil-crisis) (Iraq-war)............again a very wise decision !!!
Who the hell has to pay for the Missmangement ?
Of course its always the same , the employees !!
And of course the so called "Regional-Pilots" which are the cheapest.
But you have to know Dose is not in charge anymore. Sooner or later, his days are counted.
Good luck, to everyone involved!
Cool runnings
Who the hell has to pay for the Missmangement ?
Of course its always the same , the employees !!
And of course the so called "Regional-Pilots" which are the cheapest.
But you have to know Dose is not in charge anymore. Sooner or later, his days are counted.
Good luck, to everyone involved!
Cool runnings
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Well, who exactly gets laid off remains to be seen. According to the ex-Crossair pilot´s contract the Aeropers (ex-Swissair) pilots should join at the bottom of the list and are the first ones out. According to the contract between Aeropers and Swiss, most Crossair pilots are at the bottom of the seniority list.
Looks like our (totally incompetent) managment has painted itself into yet another corner....
So the Court of Arbitration will decide on the seniority issue and this ruling will (just like all other rulings
) most probably in favour for the ex-Crossair pilots.
Aeropers has gambled and rejected a fair zipper system for the seniority issue. They wanted the jackpot and it looks like it will blow up in their face. I´m sure that if I was an Aeropers member, I would not be a happy one at this time.
Looks like our (totally incompetent) managment has painted itself into yet another corner....
So the Court of Arbitration will decide on the seniority issue and this ruling will (just like all other rulings
) most probably in favour for the ex-Crossair pilots.Aeropers has gambled and rejected a fair zipper system for the seniority issue. They wanted the jackpot and it looks like it will blow up in their face. I´m sure that if I was an Aeropers member, I would not be a happy one at this time.
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SWISS
Thanks skypointer!!!!
Good that you answered middlepath’s comment first, - takes some of the steam of me!
But nonetheless;
middlepath, you’re a *ç%&*ç%& (figure it out yourself), I’m sorry for the outfit your flying for, your certainly not the MVP they’d hoped for!
As for the worries of our B-Permit colleagues, as they had received the right to work in Switzerland, they are under the same law as any other employee. The airline in it self can not boot anyone solely on the premises of their B permit status. However, whether or not the government reacts by saying that there is an overabundance of pilots and will therefore not extend the permits is in stars.
I wonder though, how much longer can Swiss, or could any company for that matter, carry on with such a high profile, bickering, turmoil? Global, external problems are bad enough as it were is it really necessary to generate problems from within?
Good that you answered middlepath’s comment first, - takes some of the steam of me!
But nonetheless;
middlepath, you’re a *ç%&*ç%& (figure it out yourself), I’m sorry for the outfit your flying for, your certainly not the MVP they’d hoped for!
As for the worries of our B-Permit colleagues, as they had received the right to work in Switzerland, they are under the same law as any other employee. The airline in it self can not boot anyone solely on the premises of their B permit status. However, whether or not the government reacts by saying that there is an overabundance of pilots and will therefore not extend the permits is in stars.
I wonder though, how much longer can Swiss, or could any company for that matter, carry on with such a high profile, bickering, turmoil? Global, external problems are bad enough as it were is it really necessary to generate problems from within?
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N380UA, perhaps you should read this or this first before you start defending the ethics of Switzerland. 
Enough... debate the issue at stake, without political or historically irrelevant sidetracking, and this applies to everyone. Links edited out, do not replace them.
Sick Squid
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Enough... debate the issue at stake, without political or historically irrelevant sidetracking, and this applies to everyone. Links edited out, do not replace them.
Sick Squid
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Last edited by Sick Squid; 20th Nov 2002 at 15:05.
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Swiss to lay off 140 pilots
Just a bit of arithmatics. Five aircraft out of the fleet, I presume means between 20 and 25 crews, which in turn means 40-50 pilots.
Does the additional 90 odd on top of this mean there is significant overstaffing or is there to be a reduction in aircraft ulitilisation on top of aircraft being taken out of the fleet?
Does the additional 90 odd on top of this mean there is significant overstaffing or is there to be a reduction in aircraft ulitilisation on top of aircraft being taken out of the fleet?
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Yeah 8 according to my newspaper.
Now you can see why the ex Crossair guys so wanted to integrate the seniority list on a zipper principle (one for you - one for me...) rather than accept the ex Swissair people above them on a years of service basis. The zipper would have insulated a few of the last in FOs from the big chop.
Now you can also see why the ex Swissair guys didn't want that.
As a result of not taking the offer on the table, however, the ex Crossair pilots have lost a deal of money and there are now two separate seniority lists and no career structure allowing them to progress all through the fleets.
It's all come sooner than expected.
The Embraer (only 3 delivered so far) also doesn't fit into the scheme of things any more - delivery delays actually help here but watch this space...
Best of luck to all involved.
Now you can see why the ex Crossair guys so wanted to integrate the seniority list on a zipper principle (one for you - one for me...) rather than accept the ex Swissair people above them on a years of service basis. The zipper would have insulated a few of the last in FOs from the big chop.
Now you can also see why the ex Swissair guys didn't want that.
As a result of not taking the offer on the table, however, the ex Crossair pilots have lost a deal of money and there are now two separate seniority lists and no career structure allowing them to progress all through the fleets.
It's all come sooner than expected.
The Embraer (only 3 delivered so far) also doesn't fit into the scheme of things any more - delivery delays actually help here but watch this space...
Best of luck to all involved.
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Few Cloudy : Your knowledge of this subject is limited.
There are 25 EMB-145 in the fleet.
There are 30 EMB-170 ordered and none delivered (a/c still in flight testing) first delivery scheduled in september 2003.
There is space for this aircraft but it will replace RJ-100's and Saab 2000's one on one.
Probably no pilots will be fired, just 140 positions eliminated.
This means equal vacation arrangement for ex-SR and ex-LX (more than fair) and 30 pilots (ex-LX) resigned. Plus the permit holders (30) are going (I feel sorry for these nice people).
There are 25 EMB-145 in the fleet.
There are 30 EMB-170 ordered and none delivered (a/c still in flight testing) first delivery scheduled in september 2003.
There is space for this aircraft but it will replace RJ-100's and Saab 2000's one on one.
Probably no pilots will be fired, just 140 positions eliminated.
This means equal vacation arrangement for ex-SR and ex-LX (more than fair) and 30 pilots (ex-LX) resigned. Plus the permit holders (30) are going (I feel sorry for these nice people).
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this is the tip of a rather large iceberg imho.
big hub network + tiny home market + historically high costs + interfering government + rash promises to 'keep the flag flying' = disaster sooner or later (already sooner than I expected)
should have taken a leaf out of the sabena book and shrunk to a more realistic size when they had the chance, this is just prolonging the agony for all involved - employees & swiss taxpayers
big hub network + tiny home market + historically high costs + interfering government + rash promises to 'keep the flag flying' = disaster sooner or later (already sooner than I expected)
should have taken a leaf out of the sabena book and shrunk to a more realistic size when they had the chance, this is just prolonging the agony for all involved - employees & swiss taxpayers
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Next milestone only a few weeks away
It will be interesting to see how Swiss manage the next milestone, i.e. the end of the embargo on share trading for institutional investors (the federal, county and local governments, and major companies who financed "Swiss") on 28 December of this year.
At the moment, fewer than 5% of shares are with retail investors and thus in the free float. Once the tied shares are let lose on the market, the result could quite conceivably be a total collapse of the share price.
At the moment, fewer than 5% of shares are with retail investors and thus in the free float. Once the tied shares are let lose on the market, the result could quite conceivably be a total collapse of the share price.
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Hi Beerfly,
On the subject of the Embraer you are right - my knowledge is from the paper (NZZ) which said that the Embraer (presumably 170 was meant here) was ordered before the big bang. This was on the basis of planned Crossair expansion, which evidently isn't going to happen now.It also said that three had been delivered, so some wires were crossed there.
The rest of it - pilots' dispute and politics, I am actually well informed on.
It is difficult to see how you can eliminate 140 jobs without sackings but time will tell. Once again, good luck.
On the subject of the Embraer you are right - my knowledge is from the paper (NZZ) which said that the Embraer (presumably 170 was meant here) was ordered before the big bang. This was on the basis of planned Crossair expansion, which evidently isn't going to happen now.It also said that three had been delivered, so some wires were crossed there.
The rest of it - pilots' dispute and politics, I am actually well informed on.
It is difficult to see how you can eliminate 140 jobs without sackings but time will tell. Once again, good luck.
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Last night´s Arena (discussion program on Swiss TV) again clearly demonstrated the sorry state that Swiss is in.
*) Euphoric politicians talking about things that they have no clue off.
*) Mr. AD painting a rosy picture (as usual) of how well Swiss is doing according to the famous business plan, but yet has to lay off 300 employees (of which 140 pilots)
*) Aeropers declining to be present...
*) Mr. Sepp Moser as the lonely cusador warning against the blown up size of Swiss.
*) Swiss Pilots Association (SPA, formerly know as CCP) clearly warning against the legal implications of Mr. AD´s course of actions.
*) A former Swissair 747 captain saying how disgusted he is by the smear tactics of Aeropers and their refusal to compromise on anything.
*) Vague answers from AD to questions why Swiss has still not joined a major alliance.
Aeropers has placed it´s members and the whole company in great danger by not accepting a zipperstyle seniority system which was offered by the SPA. In the short term they have made tremendous gains and have proved to be great manipulators behind the screens with total disrespect for their colleagues, but in the long term I predict many unhappy Aeropers members. Once the Court of Arbitration has made a ruling about the seniority issue, this will clear the way for more lay off´s...
Skypointer, you are right : Brace for impact!
*) Euphoric politicians talking about things that they have no clue off.
*) Mr. AD painting a rosy picture (as usual) of how well Swiss is doing according to the famous business plan, but yet has to lay off 300 employees (of which 140 pilots)
*) Aeropers declining to be present...
*) Mr. Sepp Moser as the lonely cusador warning against the blown up size of Swiss.
*) Swiss Pilots Association (SPA, formerly know as CCP) clearly warning against the legal implications of Mr. AD´s course of actions.
*) A former Swissair 747 captain saying how disgusted he is by the smear tactics of Aeropers and their refusal to compromise on anything.
*) Vague answers from AD to questions why Swiss has still not joined a major alliance.
Aeropers has placed it´s members and the whole company in great danger by not accepting a zipperstyle seniority system which was offered by the SPA. In the short term they have made tremendous gains and have proved to be great manipulators behind the screens with total disrespect for their colleagues, but in the long term I predict many unhappy Aeropers members. Once the Court of Arbitration has made a ruling about the seniority issue, this will clear the way for more lay off´s...
Skypointer, you are right : Brace for impact!
Last edited by Robert Vesco; 23rd Nov 2002 at 13:02.
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By the way the famous zipper was stopped by the VR of SWISS!!!!
The reason that AEROPERS did not show at the yesterday ARENA on Swiss TV was because it was meant as a political discussion. In my opinion pilots should fly and politicians should discuss about politic.
The reason that AEROPERS did not show at the yesterday ARENA on Swiss TV was because it was meant as a political discussion. In my opinion pilots should fly and politicians should discuss about politic.