PalmAir
I've never ridden with European. But I've also never understood how they have such a poor reputation when doing subcharters for other operators, or for conditions on their 747s to Orlando, or indeed in many other PPRuNe posts, and yet such a high reputation on their Palmair flights out of Bournemouth. Why the difference ?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Almaty
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many reasons. Firstly the Palmair flights are on B737s, engineering base at BOH with spare aircraft frequently available there in the event of problems. No such back up for the 747s doing the Travel City flights. Palmair provide their own cabin crew and dictate service levels. Also the boss of Palmair takes a more personal interest in each passenger (sees off each flight etc) whereas Travel City cannot (much bigger company) so in that respect nothing to do with the airline.
No real mystery just totally different operations.
No real mystery just totally different operations.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CORNWALL
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess it just goes to show that an airline can achieve great customer satisfaction irrespective of how old & tired its aircraft may appear & no IFE for the longer Canary routes Palmair operate to. I flew with them on a day trip to Germany & found them pleasant & professional enough, but I can't see how they warrant being one of the best airlines in the world, seems a bit ridiculous in my opinion. I understand that most of the cabin crew at Palmair are eager for newer equipment to work on, those good old 200 as superb as they are really do make the Palmair product look tired & dated these days.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Derby, England, U.K
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello,
I think the fact that Palmair have only got 2 Aircraft to deal with has something to do with it, as they do not have to concentrate on other aircraft in the fleet.
Have a look at their website on:
and here is an interesting article:
http://www.bathtravel.com/palmair/ho...which_2003.htm
Regards Ryan,
Premi@ir Gold
I think the fact that Palmair have only got 2 Aircraft to deal with has something to do with it, as they do not have to concentrate on other aircraft in the fleet.
Have a look at their website on:
and here is an interesting article:
http://www.bathtravel.com/palmair/ho...which_2003.htm
Regards Ryan,
Premi@ir Gold
Last edited by Hawk; 22nd Mar 2005 at 08:50.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a lot of admiration for Peter Bath. He found himself a nice niche market at BOH over the years which he has vehmently protected against the major IT’s, but the arrival of Flybe at SOU and now Thomsonfly on his home ground means he is going to have to work even harder to maintain his market share.
I have flown with them a number of times and think it’s a great experience. What other tour operator have a separate desk after check in to do your seat allocations. At the departure gate, there he is Peter himself to welcome you and call the boarding order. If memory serves me correct he boards from the centre row, say 13, and 11 though the front door and 15 and 17 though the rear, followed by 12,10 and 14,16 etc. thus hopefully avoiding everyone pushing past each other in the aisle. The theory is great and works most times, but it has been known for the flight crew to get a bit anxious when they have a tight slot time to make. On board the service is not what you would expect from a tour operator and you soon forget that this is an old 200, 737. The food is good the staff friendly and don’t forget the daily fresh flowers in the loo.
Oh and that extra legroom from the row of seats that he has removed is most welcome also. There is something special when you can pick up the in flight magazine and turn to the centre pages and read the personal details of all the flight and cabin crew and identify from their photos who is looking after you today. Is there any other airline that can beat that?
Whether this extraordinary operation can survive in this cutthroat LLC environment only time will tell, I for one sincerely hope it can.
For a number of years he operated the 146 and made a big sells pitch about it being a Whisper Jet, what a contrast the EAC 737’s made, but there seems very little local public out cry against them. Is it most locals know it’s one of Peter’s planes so they either think they can’t be all that bad if he’s using them or as it’s one of his they’ll put up with it?
I think that when Peter does start using the quieter 300’s or what ever, he will genuinely feel a lot happier about not disturbing the locals so much. Whether that’s true or not, I’m not sure, but he is the type of person that makes you think that he cares
I have flown with them a number of times and think it’s a great experience. What other tour operator have a separate desk after check in to do your seat allocations. At the departure gate, there he is Peter himself to welcome you and call the boarding order. If memory serves me correct he boards from the centre row, say 13, and 11 though the front door and 15 and 17 though the rear, followed by 12,10 and 14,16 etc. thus hopefully avoiding everyone pushing past each other in the aisle. The theory is great and works most times, but it has been known for the flight crew to get a bit anxious when they have a tight slot time to make. On board the service is not what you would expect from a tour operator and you soon forget that this is an old 200, 737. The food is good the staff friendly and don’t forget the daily fresh flowers in the loo.
Oh and that extra legroom from the row of seats that he has removed is most welcome also. There is something special when you can pick up the in flight magazine and turn to the centre pages and read the personal details of all the flight and cabin crew and identify from their photos who is looking after you today. Is there any other airline that can beat that?
Whether this extraordinary operation can survive in this cutthroat LLC environment only time will tell, I for one sincerely hope it can.
For a number of years he operated the 146 and made a big sells pitch about it being a Whisper Jet, what a contrast the EAC 737’s made, but there seems very little local public out cry against them. Is it most locals know it’s one of Peter’s planes so they either think they can’t be all that bad if he’s using them or as it’s one of his they’ll put up with it?
I think that when Peter does start using the quieter 300’s or what ever, he will genuinely feel a lot happier about not disturbing the locals so much. Whether that’s true or not, I’m not sure, but he is the type of person that makes you think that he cares
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CORNWALL
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice article Yankee, interesting & informative.
I agree, hats of to Peter, he certainly has kept up a good show at BOH & for the independant travel industry. It will be a very sad day if it should disappear.
Lets hope he stands his ground at BOH along with newer equipment & perhaps a more interesting livery!
I agree, hats of to Peter, he certainly has kept up a good show at BOH & for the independant travel industry. It will be a very sad day if it should disappear.
Lets hope he stands his ground at BOH along with newer equipment & perhaps a more interesting livery!
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its probably more to do with the fact that the Palmair 737s are the 200 series coal burning variety which don't meet the new noise standards and consequently attract an extra levy when operating into many European airports and in the near future will be banned from doing so.
They can't say they weren't warned, the legislation has been around for ages...
They can't say they weren't warned, the legislation has been around for ages...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nik nak
The EU legislation you refer to - which would have banned hushkitted aircraft from April 1 2002 - was scrapped as a result of pressure from the Americans. Nothing out there right now to stop hushkitted aircraft from flying on.
The EU legislation you refer to - which would have banned hushkitted aircraft from April 1 2002 - was scrapped as a result of pressure from the Americans. Nothing out there right now to stop hushkitted aircraft from flying on.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Palmair rejected the AshtraysRus option because they coulnt get as good a deal as they were getting with EAC. Remember that 1 aircraft in the Palmair fleet has incredibly low utilisation.
I heard that they will be relying on EAC to re-equip fleet, rumoured to be the MD80/90.
Palmair definately needs a refurb i.e new livery, newer planes, a happier workforce in terms of competing more effectively with TUI etc. They should be concentrating on niche routes out of BOH and unfortunatley Spain isn't a niche any more.
I heard that they will be relying on EAC to re-equip fleet, rumoured to be the MD80/90.
Palmair definately needs a refurb i.e new livery, newer planes, a happier workforce in terms of competing more effectively with TUI etc. They should be concentrating on niche routes out of BOH and unfortunatley Spain isn't a niche any more.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dorset, UK
Age: 36
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Palmair will hardly have to worry too much about the Thomsonfly flights from BOH let alone the Flybe. flights from SOU, they operate a totaly different business. The only way they could be affected is in there TINY seat only market on the Palma route, as Thomsonfly and Flybe. are low cost while Palmair is a full service charter carrier.
Anyway, back to the subject.
Although the Palmair aircraft arent in that bad nick, maybe it is time to update the fleet!However the simple livery is clean and straight to the point, and works well with the B732, personaly i see no need to change it until they do use newer planes.
Cheers
BOH
Anyway, back to the subject.
Although the Palmair aircraft arent in that bad nick, maybe it is time to update the fleet!However the simple livery is clean and straight to the point, and works well with the B732, personaly i see no need to change it until they do use newer planes.
Cheers
BOH
The Aquatone Article
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from BOH:
__________________________________________________
"Palmair will hardly have to worry too much about the Thomsonfly flights from BOH let alone the Flybe. flights from SOU, they operate a totaly different business. The only way they could be affected is in there TINY seat only market on the Palma route, as Thomsonfly and Flybe. are low cost while Palmair is a full service charter carrier".
__________________________________________________
I'm sure Peter Bath would say "in your dreams"! Cheap fares CHANGE PEOPLE'S TRAVEL HABITS. Many passengers on FlyBe from SOU will have been driving from Torquay or Andover and spending money they would otherwise have spent on Palmair - even if they're going to destinations that Palmair don't serve. If you want proof, simply plot Palmair's seat-only prices over the last three summers. Down, down, down....
__________________________________________________
"Palmair will hardly have to worry too much about the Thomsonfly flights from BOH let alone the Flybe. flights from SOU, they operate a totaly different business. The only way they could be affected is in there TINY seat only market on the Palma route, as Thomsonfly and Flybe. are low cost while Palmair is a full service charter carrier".
__________________________________________________
I'm sure Peter Bath would say "in your dreams"! Cheap fares CHANGE PEOPLE'S TRAVEL HABITS. Many passengers on FlyBe from SOU will have been driving from Torquay or Andover and spending money they would otherwise have spent on Palmair - even if they're going to destinations that Palmair don't serve. If you want proof, simply plot Palmair's seat-only prices over the last three summers. Down, down, down....
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dorset, UK
Age: 36
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote from Thunderball 2:
_____________________
"Many passengers on FlyBe from SOU will have been driving from Torquay or Andover and spending money they would otherwise have spent on Palmair..."
_____________________
My point was Palmairs seat only market isnt large. Palmair is a charter carrier for Bath Travel, and so most of their flights will be booked up of package holiday passengers. Thomsonfly is more aimed at the independent passenger, although, fairplay, they are selling some of their seats of for package holidays! Palmair has a good reputation around the area, and so surely wont have to worry about thomsonfly.com taking away their passengers as their a package holiday operator?!
Sorry Just how i see it!
BOH
_____________________
"Many passengers on FlyBe from SOU will have been driving from Torquay or Andover and spending money they would otherwise have spent on Palmair..."
_____________________
My point was Palmairs seat only market isnt large. Palmair is a charter carrier for Bath Travel, and so most of their flights will be booked up of package holiday passengers. Thomsonfly is more aimed at the independent passenger, although, fairplay, they are selling some of their seats of for package holidays! Palmair has a good reputation around the area, and so surely wont have to worry about thomsonfly.com taking away their passengers as their a package holiday operator?!
Sorry Just how i see it!
BOH
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have heard the off rumour that European is to aquire the 737-300 to replce the old 737-200's? I know they were to aquire the 733 just before they went bust as they were opeing BFS EDI and NCL as seasonal bases.
Good company European, as is the Palmair op... would be good to see them on the up again!
Good company European, as is the Palmair op... would be good to see them on the up again!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 47
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what is your source? I knew they were looking at the B733 but thought the plans had been shelved in favour of MD80/90?
do u have any idea of time-scale?
the B732 have extention till March 2007
do u have any idea of time-scale?
the B732 have extention till March 2007
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dorset, UK
Age: 36
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote loveJet
___________
"the B732 have extention till March 2007"
___________
Do you mean that Palmair has extended their lease of the 732 until March 2007?!Sorry a little bit confused!
I think it would be benifical for them to look at the B737 Classics, better economics than the MD80 series.
BOH
___________
"the B732 have extention till March 2007"
___________
Do you mean that Palmair has extended their lease of the 732 until March 2007?!Sorry a little bit confused!
I think it would be benifical for them to look at the B737 Classics, better economics than the MD80 series.
BOH
Last edited by BOH; 31st Mar 2005 at 15:12.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: England
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LoveJet no other info, thats what im trying to find out, i currently work for European on the 737-200.... I do love it, its a gem to work on, and they are not as bad as people say. I have worked for a well known charter airline on a brand new airbus fleet and had more tech problems and precautionary landings than I care to remember.... where as European... I've had not 1!
I'd love to see the 737-300 or Airbus at European but I know money is a bit tight, not looking forward to the MD's if we get them! I have to admit though, the 737-200 needs a paint job!
As far as i was aware the plans to remove the 732's have been scrapped, to much pressure from airline so I thought they were ok to continue service... prob wrong though
I'd love to see the 737-300 or Airbus at European but I know money is a bit tight, not looking forward to the MD's if we get them! I have to admit though, the 737-200 needs a paint job!
As far as i was aware the plans to remove the 732's have been scrapped, to much pressure from airline so I thought they were ok to continue service... prob wrong though
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 47
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not sure if Palmair are commited to continuing the B732 till March 07 but definately European have gained an extention. By extention I mean in terms of being banned from the skies due to noise!
crewboi83, why do u not want the MD80? I love the B732 but i'm afraid they're looking tired and old now. Fuel wise not a good move for any airline in todays environment either.
crewboi83, why do u not want the MD80? I love the B732 but i'm afraid they're looking tired and old now. Fuel wise not a good move for any airline in todays environment either.