PalmAir
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
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Palmair/Bath Travel are the ultimate conservative ( with a small c) organisation. Their core market for years has been the 50+ retired/semi retired of which there are plenty in Dorset/Hants!
But even this age group are becoming internet savvy. ( My parents go to Portugal twice a year and now use FR).
The accommodation offered in their brochure is again so so conservative.
Even the Bath Travel agencies look the same as they did in the 70's and 80's!!
Can they survive with this model? As has been said they do need to become more niche with their destinations. They have never offered Turkey, which i find very strange and only ever done Corfu from the Greek Islands.
Would love to see them continue to prosper and grow but feel they could have a difficult few years ahead.
But even this age group are becoming internet savvy. ( My parents go to Portugal twice a year and now use FR).
The accommodation offered in their brochure is again so so conservative.
Even the Bath Travel agencies look the same as they did in the 70's and 80's!!
Can they survive with this model? As has been said they do need to become more niche with their destinations. They have never offered Turkey, which i find very strange and only ever done Corfu from the Greek Islands.
Would love to see them continue to prosper and grow but feel they could have a difficult few years ahead.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: europe
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quote "Even the trusty 757 has to tech stop on occassions out of SSH"
not in my experience! recently had very very strong headwinds on the way back from SSH, had a full load resulting in 6hr 30min flight time! had loads of "spare room" for fuel etc tho.
Full load 30 deg out of SSH and still can use reduced thrust T/O.
SSH is no problem at all for the 757.
not in my experience! recently had very very strong headwinds on the way back from SSH, had a full load resulting in 6hr 30min flight time! had loads of "spare room" for fuel etc tho.
Full load 30 deg out of SSH and still can use reduced thrust T/O.
SSH is no problem at all for the 757.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
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quote "Even the trusty 757 has to tech stop on occassions out of SSH"
not in my experience! recently had very very strong headwinds on the way back from SSH, had a full load resulting in 6hr 30min flight time! had loads of "spare room" for fuel etc tho.
Full load 30 deg out of SSH and still can use reduced thrust T/O.
SSH is no problem at all for the 757.
not in my experience! recently had very very strong headwinds on the way back from SSH, had a full load resulting in 6hr 30min flight time! had loads of "spare room" for fuel etc tho.
Full load 30 deg out of SSH and still can use reduced thrust T/O.
SSH is no problem at all for the 757.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: , England
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Sorry old chum, the 737-300 would never make Egypt even on a good day, with anything more than a half load - especialy charter config and charter baggage weights. The -700 may make it there, but like I said before, nothing but the -800 or NG models would ever make it back in one hop. To be economic on such a route it would have to be able to operate bothways without tech stop. Even the trusty 757 has to tech stop on occassions out of SSH! The Canaries and Turkey are where they need to be!
. The 733 has actually flown LGW - SSH direct on a AEU flight subbing a tech 73G now a number of years ago. Ok it wasn't full to 148 seats but still it did it. Please explain though why you think the -700 ''may'' make it their non-stop when it actually has the largest range out of the entire 737 family and is actually part of the 737NG fleet of aircraft. Flying/working regular on the 757 UK-SSH-UK I have not known a tech stop but again this can obviously be dependant on a number of things as to why there was one on your flight, afterall as now already been mentioned they fly the Atlantic daily! Even the ones in charter config regularly fly BJL-UK non-stop which has been know to take well over 6hours 30mins...Anyway back on topic...
Again It's great that PalmAir can still attract it's regular customers but as Siggyboy has mentioned people are starting to look for the best and upto date service in a now very price sensitive market. Maybe time for a slight refresh but still keeping it's known and loved service.
Again It's great that PalmAir can still attract it's regular customers but as Siggyboy has mentioned people are starting to look for the best and upto date service in a now very price sensitive market.
What is so "up to date" about a rugby scrum during boarding?
Last edited by Groundloop; 16th Mar 2010 at 09:37.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Great product
Siggyboy.
Slight contradiction me thinks!
Palmair have a great product you say.. maybe just try a different a/c type, change the destinations & tweek the accomodation package a little.
Isn't that changing the "product" a wee bit!!
Not saying your incorrect in your way of thinking though, Palmair maybe do need to wake up & shake-up a little!!
Slight contradiction me thinks!
Palmair have a great product you say.. maybe just try a different a/c type, change the destinations & tweek the accomodation package a little.
Isn't that changing the "product" a wee bit!!
Not saying your incorrect in your way of thinking though, Palmair maybe do need to wake up & shake-up a little!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Where next for Palmair
Interesting comments re Palmair.
Its important to remember that Palmair is the inclusive tour arm of Bath Travel, by far the largest independent Travel Agency in Britain. Palmair is not an airline in the normal sense.
Also Bath Travel is still a very conservative and rather backward company by most standards. They only very recently moved into the web world!
Palmair - the airline - was established to build the tour brand and to provide a more reliable alternative to the ad-hoc charters that supported the tour programmes previously.
The reality is that the advent of LCC, particularly at BOH has severely undermined the traditional Palmair markets.
Thomson at BOH has predictably reacted by pushing into the longer legged markets, like Turkey Cyprus and Egypt, still not able to be easilly served by Ryanair (as an Irish airline) and by pulling out of the head to head with RYR.
Palmair still seems to be struggling to understand how to adapt to the changing market. It has dropped some of the head to head (e.g ALC)Meanwhile the boys in Dublin are laughing all the way to the bank, having pushed both Thomson and Palmair off of a number of key routes core to Palmair's business.
So what next?
The sensible thing for the Palmair owners is probably a seat deal with Thomson, boosting the Thomson and Palmair business viability from BOH. And at the same time cozying up to Thomson management for the inevitable buy out of Bath Travel at some time.
I think BOIH is unlikely to see Palmair the airline in summer 2011, although the business and the punters will still use the airport.
... and Bath travel will probably be bought up by a large travel conglomerate (Thomson most likely) or be sold via an IPO in the coming 3-4 years.
You heard it here first!
FF
Its important to remember that Palmair is the inclusive tour arm of Bath Travel, by far the largest independent Travel Agency in Britain. Palmair is not an airline in the normal sense.
Also Bath Travel is still a very conservative and rather backward company by most standards. They only very recently moved into the web world!
Palmair - the airline - was established to build the tour brand and to provide a more reliable alternative to the ad-hoc charters that supported the tour programmes previously.
The reality is that the advent of LCC, particularly at BOH has severely undermined the traditional Palmair markets.
Thomson at BOH has predictably reacted by pushing into the longer legged markets, like Turkey Cyprus and Egypt, still not able to be easilly served by Ryanair (as an Irish airline) and by pulling out of the head to head with RYR.
Palmair still seems to be struggling to understand how to adapt to the changing market. It has dropped some of the head to head (e.g ALC)Meanwhile the boys in Dublin are laughing all the way to the bank, having pushed both Thomson and Palmair off of a number of key routes core to Palmair's business.
So what next?
The sensible thing for the Palmair owners is probably a seat deal with Thomson, boosting the Thomson and Palmair business viability from BOH. And at the same time cozying up to Thomson management for the inevitable buy out of Bath Travel at some time.
I think BOIH is unlikely to see Palmair the airline in summer 2011, although the business and the punters will still use the airport.
... and Bath travel will probably be bought up by a large travel conglomerate (Thomson most likely) or be sold via an IPO in the coming 3-4 years.
You heard it here first!
FF
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Have to agree, though I wouldn't forecast the demise quite so soon, more the latter part of the year.
Palmair is stale, has been for a very long time, it plateaued quite a few years ago and the company have not learnt how to adapt to market trends and are quickly being left behind. They've relied on an older clientelle for far too long, that older market is now deceased or itself learning to move on and realise there is life outside Palmair with better, cheaper opportunities elsewhere.
The name is still a strong brand, it just needs the right commercial team behind it to push it into the 21st century, whether that can be achieved remains to be seen, but as things stand I don't hold out much hope for them.
Palmair is stale, has been for a very long time, it plateaued quite a few years ago and the company have not learnt how to adapt to market trends and are quickly being left behind. They've relied on an older clientelle for far too long, that older market is now deceased or itself learning to move on and realise there is life outside Palmair with better, cheaper opportunities elsewhere.
The name is still a strong brand, it just needs the right commercial team behind it to push it into the 21st century, whether that can be achieved remains to be seen, but as things stand I don't hold out much hope for them.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Coast
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Dublin Flights
Palmair have announed a series of flight only to Dublin outbound on Saturdays at 1505 arrivng Dublin 1620 and returning Mondays at 0030 arrivng Bournemouth 0140 flights start from £29 and include all taxes and a hot meal on the flight.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
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Cant find anything on palmair website about it?
Palmair could do well to consider operations from SEN now that the airport expansion and runway extension has been approved. They wouldn't have FR to worry about at SEN - serving a very local & immediate catchment.
Palmair could do well to consider operations from SEN now that the airport expansion and runway extension has been approved. They wouldn't have FR to worry about at SEN - serving a very local & immediate catchment.