UK Govt possible crackdown on ancillaries
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UK Govt possible crackdown on ancillaries
It seems the UK Govt is considering a consultation followed by a possible crackdown on ancillary pricing.
Personally, I'm in favour of the status quo as I typically travel extremely light and rarely make use of any form of ancillaries. Yes, Mrs Johnson is happy sitting 10 rows away from me on a 3 hour flight and has found that she doesn't really need 2 different sets of clothes for each day of a long weekend. Others will have a different opinion.
Apologies for using the Daily Mail as a source, but it was the best article I could find that didn't involve a paywall and had a non-trivial write-up
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shoppers.html
I think we all know that if airlines were limited in what they could charge in ancillaries, bum-on-seat fares *may* start to rise
Anybody have thoughts as to how this will affect flights to/from the UK and whether anything substantial will really happen on this ?
Personally, I'm in favour of the status quo as I typically travel extremely light and rarely make use of any form of ancillaries. Yes, Mrs Johnson is happy sitting 10 rows away from me on a 3 hour flight and has found that she doesn't really need 2 different sets of clothes for each day of a long weekend. Others will have a different opinion.
Apologies for using the Daily Mail as a source, but it was the best article I could find that didn't involve a paywall and had a non-trivial write-up
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shoppers.html
I think we all know that if airlines were limited in what they could charge in ancillaries, bum-on-seat fares *may* start to rise
Anybody have thoughts as to how this will affect flights to/from the UK and whether anything substantial will really happen on this ?
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It seems the UK Govt is considering a consultation followed by a possible crackdown on ancillary pricing.
Personally, I'm in favour of the status quo as I typically travel extremely light and rarely make use of any form of ancillaries. Yes, Mrs Johnson is happy sitting 10 rows away from me on a 3 hour flight and has found that she doesn't really need 2 different sets of clothes for each day of a long weekend. Others will have a different opinion.
Apologies for using the Daily Mail as a source, but it was the best article I could find that didn't involve a paywall and had a non-trivial write-up
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shoppers.html
I think we all know that if airlines were limited in what they could charge in ancillaries, bum-on-seat fares *may* start to rise
Anybody have thoughts as to how this will affect flights to/from the UK and whether anything substantial will really happen on this ?
Personally, I'm in favour of the status quo as I typically travel extremely light and rarely make use of any form of ancillaries. Yes, Mrs Johnson is happy sitting 10 rows away from me on a 3 hour flight and has found that she doesn't really need 2 different sets of clothes for each day of a long weekend. Others will have a different opinion.
Apologies for using the Daily Mail as a source, but it was the best article I could find that didn't involve a paywall and had a non-trivial write-up
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shoppers.html
I think we all know that if airlines were limited in what they could charge in ancillaries, bum-on-seat fares *may* start to rise
Anybody have thoughts as to how this will affect flights to/from the UK and whether anything substantial will really happen on this ?
And that seat choice fees should also be illegal.
Indeed the petty things that are simply price gouging and that negatively impact the smooth operations of airports for a few cents in the Euro
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I would approve of some re-bundling included a statuary minimum baggage allowance AND that It should be put in the hold !
And that seat choice fees should also be illegal.
Indeed the petty things that are simply price gouging and that negatively impact the smooth operations of airports for a few cents in the Euro
And that seat choice fees should also be illegal.
Indeed the petty things that are simply price gouging and that negatively impact the smooth operations of airports for a few cents in the Euro
If people want something extra why should you not have to pay for it?
Many people do not care about seat choice so don’t pay for it. If it was “illegal” then that optional extra will go into the ticket price for everyone. Providing no choice to passengers to keep the overall flight cost as low as possible.
It's unclear what they are looking to address, is it the fees themselves, how they are presented or both?
Unless it is determined that the airlines are making excess profits, reducing income from fees will only increase the bottom line fare. And aren't air fares included in what ever is used to measure inflation now? And if the cost of doing business in the UK becomes too much, airlines might just move flights.
If anything happens, I would expect them to go for low hanging fruit, i.e. a change in how fees are presented or something like all pax on a booking being sat together where possible - splitting people up unless they pay extra does seem like a deliberate act to make money on something that costs the airline nothing.
Unless it is determined that the airlines are making excess profits, reducing income from fees will only increase the bottom line fare. And aren't air fares included in what ever is used to measure inflation now? And if the cost of doing business in the UK becomes too much, airlines might just move flights.
If anything happens, I would expect them to go for low hanging fruit, i.e. a change in how fees are presented or something like all pax on a booking being sat together where possible - splitting people up unless they pay extra does seem like a deliberate act to make money on something that costs the airline nothing.
Last edited by SWBKCB; 11th Jun 2023 at 08:35.
What is greedy is software that splits up families or couples (parent/kid) only to make them pay extra for being "reseated" together. Operationally there should be a free way for everybody to put baggage in the hold to keep bins and cabin floors free from stuff and turnaround times on the mark.
However with airport luggage delivery often more unreliable these days many people carry on whatever they take. So it might be the moment to seriously increase the available bin volume for denser seating and higher headcounts onboard many Neos MAXes and so on? Like move out crew baggage, oxygen and rafts to dedicated cabinets for starters and increase bin sizes and bin loads certified.
However with airport luggage delivery often more unreliable these days many people carry on whatever they take. So it might be the moment to seriously increase the available bin volume for denser seating and higher headcounts onboard many Neos MAXes and so on? Like move out crew baggage, oxygen and rafts to dedicated cabinets for starters and increase bin sizes and bin loads certified.
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I think there are two different areas here.
Looking at the article and their example of a purchase through Ticketmaster, you have no option but to pay their service charge and processing fee. With baggage and seat choice, there is an option to not check in baggage or not choose a seat. That said, I do think that deliberately splitting up a party is taking this to extremes.
What I find interesting is the actual pricing breakdown of airline tickets at some airlines where the ticket price can be only a few quid but the taxes and fees make up the bulk of the price. I'm not talking about airport and government fees which I understand but where for example a ticket from LHR to LAX has a cost element of £21 and an airline service fee of £210! I believe it came from the old fuel surcharge days but presumably now acts as a clever way to make sure people redeeming reward flights still pay the majority of the fare. I haven't ever used theses schemes but no doubt reward flight bookers would be happy if this was reviewed. Arguably, as there is no way of avoiding this service fee, it is more closely aligned to the Ticketmaster approach outlined at the start.
Looking at the article and their example of a purchase through Ticketmaster, you have no option but to pay their service charge and processing fee. With baggage and seat choice, there is an option to not check in baggage or not choose a seat. That said, I do think that deliberately splitting up a party is taking this to extremes.
What I find interesting is the actual pricing breakdown of airline tickets at some airlines where the ticket price can be only a few quid but the taxes and fees make up the bulk of the price. I'm not talking about airport and government fees which I understand but where for example a ticket from LHR to LAX has a cost element of £21 and an airline service fee of £210! I believe it came from the old fuel surcharge days but presumably now acts as a clever way to make sure people redeeming reward flights still pay the majority of the fare. I haven't ever used theses schemes but no doubt reward flight bookers would be happy if this was reviewed. Arguably, as there is no way of avoiding this service fee, it is more closely aligned to the Ticketmaster approach outlined at the start.
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Ticketmaster are not going to provide their services for free to a theatre... but there is an argument that it should be a theatre negotiating with Ticketmaster as to what the processing fee is and burying that in the ticket price.
In person box office sales are relatively rare... and a theatre has a much stronger negotiating position than the individuals buying a couple of tickets.... this would likely lead to downward pressure on ticketing agencies to reduce their fees and become more efficient as companies
In person box office sales are relatively rare... and a theatre has a much stronger negotiating position than the individuals buying a couple of tickets.... this would likely lead to downward pressure on ticketing agencies to reduce their fees and become more efficient as companies
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I don't disagree DJ6. Just pointing out there are differences.
In these times of openness and transparency where quite rightly people can see the price breakdown, there will be debates about the rights and wrongs of how it is done. Maybe the "headline price" in these cases should include unavoidable fees.
It was always the position of the low cost operators that each customer can pay for what they need rather than dividing the price of baggage carriage for instance across the entire flight. So the headline price in this instance should theoretically be achievable.
In these times of openness and transparency where quite rightly people can see the price breakdown, there will be debates about the rights and wrongs of how it is done. Maybe the "headline price" in these cases should include unavoidable fees.
It was always the position of the low cost operators that each customer can pay for what they need rather than dividing the price of baggage carriage for instance across the entire flight. So the headline price in this instance should theoretically be achievable.
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The £7.50 or so cost for seat choice either needs absorbing or indeed adding BACK onto the ticket for every one.
Yes ticket fares NEED to go up across the board and thats the fact acknowledged by MOL himself..
The chap that referenced Jet2 a company “some” here and in other places think expensive is actually evidence how to deliver service and value !
Consumers are NOT always right and faux choices aren’t choices at all, Just simple price gouging to some extent. Airlines such as the harp incorporate a minimum recovery margin somewhat higher than those £/€30 headline fare bands.
All that said and done we have a zombi administration in Westminster that can’t even get serious legislation through to royal assent (they haven't got a single act of any consequence completed for over a year !) so this will simply fade away in a few days !
It’s almost certainly been planted as a typical political sounding exercise.
Last edited by Rutan16; 11th Jun 2023 at 15:06.
Could someone explain what it costs the airline for you to choose your seat? As far as I can tell, there is no cost at all, I can understand hold baggage having a charge but pressing a button on a website just to chose a seat seems greedy.
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Sort of agree this particular charge is the epitome of price gouging to recover margin.
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There are certain ancillaries which do cost money to provide eg hold baggage. It's fair to make a reasonable charge which covers this. Others such as online seat selection cost a negligible amount and should be included. After all the train no longer charges for seat reservations. Also pre-booked luggage should be cheaper that the charge to someone who just turns up with xs baggage.
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The airline business has never been about cost-of-service + X % markup. If it was, flights on a Saturday in school holidays in July from the UK to Mallorca would cost the same as on a wet windy Wednesday in November. The airline industry has for 20+ years worked on the basis of charging the highest possible price that passengers are willing to pay so as to maximise profits (or minimise loss) - the cost of providing the service is relevant only to decide whether to operate or cancel a route and deciding the schedule months in advance.
TLDR - the airline industry, like many other businesses, charges what it thinks people will pay. The cost of providing a product or service is relevant only to decide whether to sell (or continue to sell) the product. It's called capitalism, and people have been acting this way for thousands of years.
TLDR - the airline industry, like many other businesses, charges what it thinks people will pay. The cost of providing a product or service is relevant only to decide whether to sell (or continue to sell) the product. It's called capitalism, and people have been acting this way for thousands of years.
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Personally, I'm relaxed about paying for a seat reservation. You're paying for a preference- you will get a seat if you don't pay it.
What does irk me are credit card charges. Having to pay the airline more money just because I have the audacity to want pay them is a bit strange.
What does irk me are credit card charges. Having to pay the airline more money just because I have the audacity to want pay them is a bit strange.
On a related note being invited to pay for Fast Track security is frankly a nonsense. I accept that you don’t have to be mug enough to pay it. However the D of T should put a stop to it. And the varying scales of ‘ drop off’ fees that some arse has dreamt up across the U.K. ranging from 5 to 20 quid ( a particularly British gouge it would appear… haven’t seen it in action in French or Spanish airports as yet ) combined with draconian £100 bye law fines for dropping off short of the airport.
Airlines have got to make money somehow.
Like him or not, Willie Walsh was saying that this year, per passenger flown, there will be $2 of profit made across the board. Clearly some airlines will be better than others, but with margins like that, what is the incentive to give more away. Airlines lost a combined $95B during the Covid years.
Some longer haul routes operated by full service airlines are horrendously expensive at the moment, and has been for some time since the re-emergence from Covid. Fares do need to increase, people need to accept that… the days of cheap tickets are over.
Like him or not, Willie Walsh was saying that this year, per passenger flown, there will be $2 of profit made across the board. Clearly some airlines will be better than others, but with margins like that, what is the incentive to give more away. Airlines lost a combined $95B during the Covid years.
Some longer haul routes operated by full service airlines are horrendously expensive at the moment, and has been for some time since the re-emergence from Covid. Fares do need to increase, people need to accept that… the days of cheap tickets are over.
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It’ll just increase the bottom line on the fare so won’t work.
My opinion is that airlines such as Ryanair should be banned from deliberately splitting up parties, usually in middle seats, across the plane to force them to pay. Obviously, it’s a risk you take if there aren’t seats together, but I’ve seen numerous times, especially during COVID, when flights were half empty and they were dotting people around still then.
My opinion is that airlines such as Ryanair should be banned from deliberately splitting up parties, usually in middle seats, across the plane to force them to pay. Obviously, it’s a risk you take if there aren’t seats together, but I’ve seen numerous times, especially during COVID, when flights were half empty and they were dotting people around still then.
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Who still adds on a card charge? Not seen it in some time, other than for corporate credit cards which to be fair other companies in other sectors also charge extra for.