EU 261 Post Brexit
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EU 261 Post Brexit
Out of curiosity if and when the UK leaves the EU, what will happen to EU 261? Will the UK carry on with some other scheme or will it be dropped altogether?
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The current law covers flying within the EU, from the EU with any airline and to the EU with an EU airline.
So if the law is copied over, would that mean Ryanair having to compensate for a delayed/cancelled flight from STN-IBZ/PMI/FAO etc whereas Jet2 on the same routes would not? Flying to the UK, all would have to. Alternatively if we're out of the EU would the EU tell us to get stuffed with our claims to their airlines?
So if the law is copied over, would that mean Ryanair having to compensate for a delayed/cancelled flight from STN-IBZ/PMI/FAO etc whereas Jet2 on the same routes would not? Flying to the UK, all would have to. Alternatively if we're out of the EU would the EU tell us to get stuffed with our claims to their airlines?
One of the issues to be resolved - it's probably not even on the list of the things to be added to the list of the things to be added to the list of the things to be talked about.... 
So if the law is copied over, would that mean Ryanair having to compensate for a delayed/cancelled flight from STN-IBZ/PMI/FAO etc whereas Jet2 on the same routes would not? Flying to the UK, all would have to. Alternatively if we're out of the EU would the EU tell us to get stuffed with our claims to their airlines?
EU 261 will continue to apply to the UK, as an EU member, until 2019. It will almost certainly be succeeded by some UK-specific legislation, but there is no guarantee that it will be identical.
Bearing in Mind US airlines are free of any sanction then this will get challenged if UK keep it.
DaveReid,
...but it will, because there is so much EU legislation, government doesn't have time to change anything. So EU261 will effectively become British law, as I stated above.
but there is no guarantee that it will be identical.
Brexit legislation is on the basis all Eu law becomes UK law and the ones that the Govt dont like will be repealed and re worded and put through parliament as UK law. Thats the only sensible approach, if they didnt do this it would be 2119 before we left and its already looking that way anyway as we do not appear to be making any progress on anything.
Changing this law is unlikely to be of any material importance to any one and it would be a complete waste of time to re cast it into a UK law which might be difficult as by then almost all 'UK' airlines will actually be non UK airlines with HQs in the EU. So it will probably be left just as it is
Changing this law is unlikely to be of any material importance to any one and it would be a complete waste of time to re cast it into a UK law which might be difficult as by then almost all 'UK' airlines will actually be non UK airlines with HQs in the EU. So it will probably be left just as it is
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It won't be enforceable from March 2019, transferring it into UK law is meaningless as the ECJ won't be over it and airlines will test it quickly unless it's specifically adjusted when it's transferred into UK law.
transferring it into UK law is meaningless as the ECJ won't be over it
Frankly, the sooner we leave ECJ jurisdiction the better, as it operates using Napoleonic interpretation - a system which, for those Brits who understand it, is extremely undemocratic and ultimately dangerous.
...but we have a renowned judicial system in Britain which will enforce all UK legislation according to the letter of the law, including anything transferred to UK law.
Frankly, the sooner we leave ECJ jurisdiction the better, as it operates using Napoleonic interpretation - a system which, for those Brits who understand it, is extremely undemocratic and ultimately dangerous.
Frankly, the sooner we leave ECJ jurisdiction the better, as it operates using Napoleonic interpretation - a system which, for those Brits who understand it, is extremely undemocratic and ultimately dangerous.
I think it is more realistic to say, as j636 has, that unless the ECJ has continued input UK courts will through test cases tweak how it works, which may, or may not result in adverse effects for those who claim - more money for the lawyers I fear.
Personally, I am from the old school who accepts that sh1t happens, and it would take a lot, and some clear evidence of incompetence to encourage me to claim.
Why do so many people, ATNotts included, think that the EU's Napoleonic system of justice is appropriate to the modern age? In that system, courts adjudicate on their understanding of the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law, as UK courts using Common Law do.
There is a far greater chance of real justice, as evidenced by the reputation of the UK system, in the UK as everyone knows exactly where they stand. Judge-made law is less prevalent in Common Law than in Napoleonic Law.
If you look at the legal systems of some of the countries who provide judges to the ECJ, you would be extremely glad that we are leaving the EU.
There is a far greater chance of real justice, as evidenced by the reputation of the UK system, in the UK as everyone knows exactly where they stand. Judge-made law is less prevalent in Common Law than in Napoleonic Law.
If you look at the legal systems of some of the countries who provide judges to the ECJ, you would be extremely glad that we are leaving the EU.
Why do so many people, ATNotts included, think that the EU's Napoleonic system of justice is appropriate to the modern age? In that system, courts adjudicate on their understanding of the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law, as UK courts using Common Law do.
There is a far greater chance of real justice, as evidenced by the reputation of the UK system, in the UK as everyone knows exactly where they stand. Judge-made law is less prevalent in Common Law than in Napoleonic Law.
If you look at the legal systems of some of the countries who provide judges to the ECJ, you would be extremely glad that we are leaving the EU.
There is a far greater chance of real justice, as evidenced by the reputation of the UK system, in the UK as everyone knows exactly where they stand. Judge-made law is less prevalent in Common Law than in Napoleonic Law.
If you look at the legal systems of some of the countries who provide judges to the ECJ, you would be extremely glad that we are leaving the EU.
changes to the law are likely to be made through test cases
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I was under the impression that the Supreme Court, and previously the Law Lords, regularly 'reinterpreted' the law in the light of changes in society etc.
I should also point out that Scots Law is, in its origin, more similar to Napoleonic/Roman law, which is why it has remained separate since 1707.
And the advantage of the justice system in Europe is that it is less adversarial, focussing on establishing the facts.
I should also point out that Scots Law is, in its origin, more similar to Napoleonic/Roman law, which is why it has remained separate since 1707.
And the advantage of the justice system in Europe is that it is less adversarial, focussing on establishing the facts.
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The law applies to flight to/from the EU or on EU airlines.
Surely if Ryanair are doing an internal UK flight then the law would apply as they are an EU airline, unless they operate under a new Ryanair UK brand?
It would only no longer apply to routes such as UK-Trans Atlantic/Asia/Middle East/Non EU/EEA Europe and Internal UK flights on UK or non EU/EEA Airlines.
I'm aware that most airlines have some kind of compensation system (although, not, as I found out, Cubana after an 8 hour delay on a domestic flight without anything so much as a refreshment voucher). All that would change, if the UK didn't adopt the EU model, would be that the rules would no longer be legally enforceable and would purely be up to the airlines to pay out. Airlines will presumably love this, but the UK legislators, already being quite averse to anything aviation related, will not, so new rules will be made up pretty quickly.
Although, it would be nice if the UK could use brexit as an excuse to introduce more sensible, realistic rules regarding EU261 and attempt to end the ridiculous loopholes where people are paid hundreds on tickets that cost a fraction of that and where airlines need to provide room and board for events way outside their control.
Surely if Ryanair are doing an internal UK flight then the law would apply as they are an EU airline, unless they operate under a new Ryanair UK brand?
It would only no longer apply to routes such as UK-Trans Atlantic/Asia/Middle East/Non EU/EEA Europe and Internal UK flights on UK or non EU/EEA Airlines.
I'm aware that most airlines have some kind of compensation system (although, not, as I found out, Cubana after an 8 hour delay on a domestic flight without anything so much as a refreshment voucher). All that would change, if the UK didn't adopt the EU model, would be that the rules would no longer be legally enforceable and would purely be up to the airlines to pay out. Airlines will presumably love this, but the UK legislators, already being quite averse to anything aviation related, will not, so new rules will be made up pretty quickly.
Although, it would be nice if the UK could use brexit as an excuse to introduce more sensible, realistic rules regarding EU261 and attempt to end the ridiculous loopholes where people are paid hundreds on tickets that cost a fraction of that and where airlines need to provide room and board for events way outside their control.
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hy do so many people, ATNotts included, think that the EU's Napoleonic system of justice is appropriate to the modern age? In that system, courts adjudicate on their understanding of the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law, as UK courts using Common Law do.
