Air France KLM group in trouble?
short flights long nights
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Air France KLM group in trouble?
Head line in Dutch papers today saying unions fear thousands of jobs may go, as the group is hanging by a 'silk thread'. Costs need to be reduced by 20%. Management in talks tomorrow to discuss drastic measures to save the group from collapse.
They've probably not thought of the obvious solution - deal with the money pit that is Air France?
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Let me see, if I can believe PPJN:
Top salary Capt at Emirates 41240 UAE Dirham = 8,861 Euro * 12 = appr 106,332 per annum plus per diem etc
Top Salary Capt at KLM E256.718per annum plus per diem etc
Retirement at KLM at 56... At Emirates at?
Anyone with actual knowledge on these figures who can comment?
Top salary Capt at Emirates 41240 UAE Dirham = 8,861 Euro * 12 = appr 106,332 per annum plus per diem etc
Top Salary Capt at KLM E256.718per annum plus per diem etc
Retirement at KLM at 56... At Emirates at?
Anyone with actual knowledge on these figures who can comment?
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I'm not sure that the comparison with EK is valid, but KLM had to take on, as said above, a money pit that is AF, with its dead wood staff and management at all levels, unions, poor reputation for service and safety, and one of the world's worst major hub airports.
I was working on a project for KLM at the time of the merger and most of the things they had to say about AF and the French would earn me an instant ban here if repeated.
What a difference in attitude between the French, inefficient, bureaucratic, hidebound (on l'a toujours fait comme ca.....) lazy, devious, arrogant, a massive sense of entitlement, monoglot, and confrontational, and the Dutch, professional, positive, straightforward, multilingual, and always looking for solutions rather than obstacles.
Truly a marriage made in hell and the sooner it breaks up, the better.
I was working on a project for KLM at the time of the merger and most of the things they had to say about AF and the French would earn me an instant ban here if repeated.
What a difference in attitude between the French, inefficient, bureaucratic, hidebound (on l'a toujours fait comme ca.....) lazy, devious, arrogant, a massive sense of entitlement, monoglot, and confrontational, and the Dutch, professional, positive, straightforward, multilingual, and always looking for solutions rather than obstacles.
Truly a marriage made in hell and the sooner it breaks up, the better.
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What a difference in attitude between the French, inefficient, bureaucratic, hidebound (on l'a toujours fait comme ca.....) lazy, devious, arrogant, a massive sense of entitlement, monoglot, and confrontational, and the Dutch, professional, positive, straightforward, multilingual, and always looking for solutions rather than obstacles.
Couldn't agree more with the above. I'm also fed up as a pax going on the KLM website to book a flight- where they nearly always try & book me on to an Air France service. There is zero chance of me booking that option.
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Having been very fortunate to work for them for 18 wonderful years, I just hope they don't let AF drag them down.
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The two articles in De Telegraaf paint a fairly grim picture for the future, citing competition from TK and the ME airlines, and the AF strike, as two main causes of the bad situation. Actual figures will be published on Wednesday.
Holding thumbs for my friends at KLM for better times ahead, and as for the parasites at AF, I suppose you have families to feed but you have largely brought this upon yourselves.
Holding thumbs for my friends at KLM for better times ahead, and as for the parasites at AF, I suppose you have families to feed but you have largely brought this upon yourselves.
They need to sever AF and go it alone. IAG wouldn't suit them because AMS is LHR's main competition (and is far better to use as a pax)
They've been savaging Martinair and KLM Cargo over recent years, and yet the AF cargo business has been left to itself.
It's a marriage from hell, get a divorce KLM before it's too late.....or do a Pistorious on that French wife of yours......
They've been savaging Martinair and KLM Cargo over recent years, and yet the AF cargo business has been left to itself.
It's a marriage from hell, get a divorce KLM before it's too late.....or do a Pistorious on that French wife of yours......
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It's a shame that the BA & KLM merger never happened due to the obstacles in place at the time.
Relatively speaking, the UK and the Dutch are not that far apart culturally and can get things done.
BA has learnt a bit if humility since and KLM would probably fit well into IAG, but it's never going to happen.
Relatively speaking, the UK and the Dutch are not that far apart culturally and can get things done.
BA has learnt a bit if humility since and KLM would probably fit well into IAG, but it's never going to happen.
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They need to sever AF and go it alone.
Air France is screwed and will soon be left behind if KLM don't get out now they will be the same.
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News report on KLM. I hope the UK staff hold onto their jobs.
Survival KLM hangs on a thread - Curaçao Chronicle
Survival KLM hangs on a thread - Curaçao Chronicle
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They need to sever AF and go it alone. IAG wouldn't suit them because AMS is LHR's main competition (and is far better to use as a pax)
It's a shame that the BA & KLM merger never happened due to the obstacles in place at the time.
Relatively speaking, the UK and the Dutch are not that far apart culturally and can get things done.
BA has learnt a bit if humility since and KLM would probably fit well into IAG, but it's never going to happen.
Relatively speaking, the UK and the Dutch are not that far apart culturally and can get things done.
BA has learnt a bit if humility since and KLM would probably fit well into IAG, but it's never going to happen.
BA/IB could have got into a similar situation, but it appears that IB has been/is being turned around.
Air France is screwed and will soon be left behind if KLM don't get out now they will be the same.
Perhaps the EU could step in and fine BA for making a profit and give it to AF.
News report on KLM. I hope the UK staff hold onto their jobs.
Then you have to ask yourself why KLM agreed to the 'merger'. I say 'merger' but it was very much on Air France terms. Culturally the two airlines were so unlike that it was never going to end well.
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BA/KL or AF/KL
A client of mine who was an airlines analyst at the time had some interesting comments at the time. This is my understanding from memory.
BA/KL would have worked quite well, there were a lot of synergies, however the history is not quite right.
BA offered a 67/33 split.
KL wanted a 60/40 split with a lot of directors’ rights.
BA turned it down as valued the KLM side too highly and would have brought a higher level of Dutch power than was justified by the share split. There was also an issue regarding the KL-NW tie up and the BA-AA proposed tie up. All to do with the Qualiflier alliance and OneWorld.
Air France, cleverly stepped in later. What happened?
AF/KL split is 80/20 and KL directors get their rights. Please correct me if wrong.
BA/KL would have worked quite well, there were a lot of synergies, however the history is not quite right.
BA offered a 67/33 split.
KL wanted a 60/40 split with a lot of directors’ rights.
BA turned it down as valued the KLM side too highly and would have brought a higher level of Dutch power than was justified by the share split. There was also an issue regarding the KL-NW tie up and the BA-AA proposed tie up. All to do with the Qualiflier alliance and OneWorld.
Air France, cleverly stepped in later. What happened?
AF/KL split is 80/20 and KL directors get their rights. Please correct me if wrong.
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Thread Starter
The question is, can the merger be broken up?
Reports in Dutch papers today that 7500 jobs are at risk at KLM.
Reports in Dutch papers today that 7500 jobs are at risk at KLM.