Boris Island Rejected
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As I understand it one of the rationales for this airport expansion is that the UK is losing out because it does not have a decent expandable hub airport.
I have just read that DXB is about to build a second airport. Clearly its not needed for the local population so therefore does it matter that the new London hub airport is actually close to London.
On this point Boris Island does have some merit.?
I have just read that DXB is about to build a second airport. Clearly its not needed for the local population so therefore does it matter that the new London hub airport is actually close to London.
On this point Boris Island does have some merit.?
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As I understand it one of the rationales for this airport expansion is that the UK is losing out because it does not have a decent expandable hub airport.
I have just read that DXB is about to build a second airport. Clearly its not needed for the local population so therefore does it matter that the new London hub airport is actually close to London.
On this point Boris Island does have some merit.?
I have just read that DXB is about to build a second airport. Clearly its not needed for the local population so therefore does it matter that the new London hub airport is actually close to London.
On this point Boris Island does have some merit.?
Boris Island makes no sense on ANY point.
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You missed the point if these multi R/w airports can spring up in the desert without any discernible local traffic then so too could Boris Island. The problem is we are trying to make it face both ways. A true hub like Dxb feeds on itself hunreds of interconnecting flights with 95% transfer traffic.
London is now missing out to this traffic , people use Ams Cdg Fra etc as it's easier to interconnect. If the 3rd r/w is built there will be yet another terminal associated with it leading to yet more complexity. I am not sure this will make travelling through Lhr any easier
London is now missing out to this traffic , people use Ams Cdg Fra etc as it's easier to interconnect. If the 3rd r/w is built there will be yet another terminal associated with it leading to yet more complexity. I am not sure this will make travelling through Lhr any easier
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You missed the point if these multi R/w airports can spring up in the desert without any discernible local traffic then so too could Boris Island. The problem is we are trying to make it face both ways. A true hub like Dxb feeds on itself hunreds of interconnecting flights with 95% transfer traffic.
London is now missing out to this traffic , people use Ams Cdg Fra etc as it's easier to interconnect.
London is now missing out to this traffic , people use Ams Cdg Fra etc as it's easier to interconnect.
BTW the desert "multi R/w airports" have 2 rwys each.
Boris Island has more in common with YMX rather than DXB, AUH, DOH.
If the 3rd r/w is built there will be yet another terminal associated with it leading to yet more complexity. I am not sure this will make travelling through Lhr any easier
Paxing All Over The World
DXB is in the cross roads of Euope / Mid-East / Far Aast /Oz + NZ. Boris would not be.
DXB can be justified (almost) on the hub alone. LHR or Boris cannot be.
DXB can be justified (almost) on the hub alone. LHR or Boris cannot be.
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You're joking, of course. Even Boris wouldn't be daft enough to want to re-invent Mirabel.
Boris is working on the assumption that he can close Heathrow. The truth is that Heathrow isn't closing, hence the owners investing in new terminals. Unfortunately, proposed investment in new rwys is blocked.
Boris cannot force Heathrow to close, consequently no carrier and none of the premium business would to ill move to Boris Island. So it could very much resemble Mirabel.
DXB is in the cross roads of Euope / Mid-East / Far Aast /Oz + NZ. Boris would not be.
DXB can be justified (almost) on the hub alone. LHR or Boris cannot be.
DXB can be justified (almost) on the hub alone. LHR or Boris cannot be.
LHR is at the crossroads of the world, as are AMS, CDG and FRA of course.
Most routes via DXB, AUH and DOH are on one hell of a long "dog-leg".
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Whilst the politicians procrastinate the only interim solution is for Heathrow to go to 24 hour unlimited operations with mixed mode on both runways. That should allow another 12 months of increase in traffic, after that........
The problem with a third (and sensibly a fourth) runway is that construction should have started at least 5 years ago.
Never mind. Scotland will most likely vote YES next week. The tories will win the election next year having got shot of the West Lothian Brigade. Cameron will be ousted having "lost" Scotland, Boris will be elected PM and ...........sanity will be restored to the world of aviation.
The problem with a third (and sensibly a fourth) runway is that construction should have started at least 5 years ago.
Never mind. Scotland will most likely vote YES next week. The tories will win the election next year having got shot of the West Lothian Brigade. Cameron will be ousted having "lost" Scotland, Boris will be elected PM and ...........sanity will be restored to the world of aviation.
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Most routes via DXB, AUH and DOH are on one hell of a long "dog-leg".
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Whilst I am not particularly a supporter of Boris Island I do think one has to wonder if LHR really knows where it's going. Trying to squeeze more into a tiny plot has little future, just to build one R/w is going to be mega disruptive Circa 1000 homes distroyed and hellish transport problems with M25 put into a tunnel widened to 10 lanes whilst it remains the major road artery around London. The disruption will be hellish, not just to London but the airport itself. Then there is another terminal with links. By the time it's finished in say 10yrs it will be swamped with traffic
So what then?
This is where Boris has vision, it may be nice for all the vested interests to just think LHR but sensibly we do have to move on
So what then?
This is where Boris has vision, it may be nice for all the vested interests to just think LHR but sensibly we do have to move on
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Whst about making Manchester a hub.
It has a huge investment from the Chinese.
I'm sure they coukd double the size.
It can be linked to HS2 if they start next year on HS2 and it's northern arms at the same time Eg Start HS2 In the North and South Simultaneously .
Give Manchester two more runways and new terminals.
Bring BA up lock stock and Barell .
Manchester like EMA is in the physical middle of the map.
In real terms its not too far from Most of England , Wales and Scotland.
Granted there woukd have to be serious investments and slits from Newquay and Exeter perhaps reopening Plymouth to give the Southwest equal accsess to it by means if regular feeder traffic
Heathrow can continue to be a large airport but if you had another UK hub mainly for the UK carriers it it would surely Free up LHR to a host of new routes and international carriers.
Perhaos even the likes of Ryanair with no bother of expansion .
I just dont see how continously expanding Heathrow is the answer.
It can't be.
Because sooner or later yiyr going to.run out of safe airspace
It has a huge investment from the Chinese.
I'm sure they coukd double the size.
It can be linked to HS2 if they start next year on HS2 and it's northern arms at the same time Eg Start HS2 In the North and South Simultaneously .
Give Manchester two more runways and new terminals.
Bring BA up lock stock and Barell .
Manchester like EMA is in the physical middle of the map.
In real terms its not too far from Most of England , Wales and Scotland.
Granted there woukd have to be serious investments and slits from Newquay and Exeter perhaps reopening Plymouth to give the Southwest equal accsess to it by means if regular feeder traffic
Heathrow can continue to be a large airport but if you had another UK hub mainly for the UK carriers it it would surely Free up LHR to a host of new routes and international carriers.
Perhaos even the likes of Ryanair with no bother of expansion .
I just dont see how continously expanding Heathrow is the answer.
It can't be.
Because sooner or later yiyr going to.run out of safe airspace
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Whilst the politicians procrastinate the only interim solution is for Heathrow to go to 24 hour unlimited operations with mixed mode on both runways. That should allow another 12 months of increase in traffic, after that........
Trouble is that much of the vocal minority live miles away and are unaffected by aircraft noise.
The problem with a third (and sensibly a fourth) runway is that construction should have started at least 5 years ago
Never mind. Scotland will most likely vote YES next week. The tories will win the election next year having got shot of the West Lothian Brigade. Cameron will be ousted having "lost" Scotland, Boris will be elected PM and ...........sanity will be restored to the world of aviation.
Expect an early election and new party leaders - oh, and the Airports Commission reporting several months earlier.
Whilst I am not particularly a supporter of Boris Island I do think one has to wonder if LHR really knows where it's going. Trying to squeeze more into a tiny plot has little future, just to build one R/w is going to be mega disruptive Circa 1000 homes distroyed and hellish transport problems with M25 put into a tunnel widened to 10 lanes whilst it remains the major road artery around London. The disruption will be hellish, not just to London but the airport itself. Then there is another terminal with links. By the time it's finished in say 10yrs it will be swamped with traffic
So what then?
This is where Boris has vision, it may be nice for all the vested interests to just think LHR but sensibly we do have to move on
So what then?
This is where Boris has vision, it may be nice for all the vested interests to just think LHR but sensibly we do have to move on
Nothing?
Realistically, LHR would have to be expanded in the interim anyway, so let's just concentrate on that site only and do it properly.
Whst about making Manchester a hub.
It has a huge investment from the Chinese.
I'm sure they coukd double the size.
It can be linked to HS2 if they start next year on HS2 and it's northern arms at the same time Eg Start HS2 In the North and South Simultaneously .
Give Manchester two more runways and new terminals.
Bring BA up lock stock and Barell .
Manchester like EMA is in the physical middle of the map.
In real terms its not too far from Most of England , Wales and Scotland.
Granted there woukd have to be serious investments and slits from Newquay and Exeter perhaps reopening Plymouth to give the Southwest equal accsess to it by means if regular feeder traffic
Heathrow can continue to be a large airport but if you had another UK hub mainly for the UK carriers it it would surely Free up LHR to a host of new routes and international carriers.
Perhaos even the likes of Ryanair with no bother of expansion .
I just dont see how continously expanding Heathrow is the answer.
It can't be.
Because sooner or later yiyr going to.run out of safe airspace
It has a huge investment from the Chinese.
I'm sure they coukd double the size.
It can be linked to HS2 if they start next year on HS2 and it's northern arms at the same time Eg Start HS2 In the North and South Simultaneously .
Give Manchester two more runways and new terminals.
Bring BA up lock stock and Barell .
Manchester like EMA is in the physical middle of the map.
In real terms its not too far from Most of England , Wales and Scotland.
Granted there woukd have to be serious investments and slits from Newquay and Exeter perhaps reopening Plymouth to give the Southwest equal accsess to it by means if regular feeder traffic
Heathrow can continue to be a large airport but if you had another UK hub mainly for the UK carriers it it would surely Free up LHR to a host of new routes and international carriers.
Perhaos even the likes of Ryanair with no bother of expansion .
I just dont see how continously expanding Heathrow is the answer.
It can't be.
Because sooner or later yiyr going to.run out of safe airspace
We aren't, most of aviation and related industry is in the private sector, and therefore any scheme has to be a good business proposition.
Another airport (like EMA) that didn't feature in any of the proposals made to the Airports Commission.
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quote --- so what do we do in the next 50yrs---
Build Boris Island which has much the same time scale with far less disruption
& link Northolt to LHR with a monorail making it a purely domestic hub thus eliminating all the immigration and customs headaches.
Build Boris Island which has much the same time scale with far less disruption
& link Northolt to LHR with a monorail making it a purely domestic hub thus eliminating all the immigration and customs headaches.
try telling US airlines that - the definition of a hub airport is one where a major airline concentrates traffic for inter-lining
it doesn't need to be international
it doesn't need to be international
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Clearly I did not explain myself clearly
Heathrow is 98% full. I am unsure of its domestic movements but even if its only 10% & all domestic flts are shipped to Northolt with decent connections to LHR, maybe HS2 could route through it too, then that buys 3yrs of growth at 3% pa, not much I know but it buys time.
Heathrow is 98% full. I am unsure of its domestic movements but even if its only 10% & all domestic flts are shipped to Northolt with decent connections to LHR, maybe HS2 could route through it too, then that buys 3yrs of growth at 3% pa, not much I know but it buys time.
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quote --- so what do we do in the next 50yrs---
Build Boris Island which has much the same time scale with far less disruption
& link Northolt to LHR with a monorail making it a purely domestic hub thus eliminating all the immigration and customs headaches.
Build Boris Island which has much the same time scale with far less disruption
& link Northolt to LHR with a monorail making it a purely domestic hub thus eliminating all the immigration and customs headaches.
NHT would only work as a small local airport like LCY and SEN for thin routes and possibly for "no-frills" operations to serve the large area west of London.
Without rwy realignment it would be a very limited operation. It has no role as a LHR third rwy on a "Heathwick" style arrangement.
Ho ho, and how do you think Boris MP would react to an expanding airport in his constituency.
Oh, he's up for selection this evening.
If it only serves domestic routes, it's not a hub.
try telling US airlines that - the definition of a hub airport is one where a major airline concentrates traffic for inter-lining
it doesn't need to be international
it doesn't need to be international
Clearly I did not explain myself clearly
Heathrow is 98% full. I am unsure of its domestic movements but even if its only 10% & all domestic flts are shipped to Northolt with decent connections to LHR, maybe HS2 could route through it too, then that buys 3yrs of growth at 3% pa, not much I know but it buys time.
Heathrow is 98% full. I am unsure of its domestic movements but even if its only 10% & all domestic flts are shipped to Northolt with decent connections to LHR, maybe HS2 could route through it too, then that buys 3yrs of growth at 3% pa, not much I know but it buys time.
LHR needs expansion urgently. The case is answerable. Let's get on with it.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 15th Sep 2014 at 17:26.