Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Airlines, Airports & Routes
Reload this Page >

DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 6

Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

DURHAM TEES VALLEY AIRPORT - 6

Old 24th Jul 2014, 15:44
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
Beafer - I wouldn't read anything too devious into the company structure. Each of the three airports is a separate company in its own right. After the deal with Vantage, all three were owned by a holding company called Vantage Airports Ltd, which was in turn owned 65% by Vantage and 35% by Peel. Back in 2012 Peel bought Vantage Airports Ltd's shares in DTV and Doncaster, giving them 100% ownership of those two airports. Earlier this year, Peel bought out Vantage's 65% stake in Vantage Airports Ltd, giving Peel 100% ownership of Liverpool.

So now each airport is a separate company, wholly owned by Peel.

Regarding Liverpool's financial health, I believe it is profitable at the operating level, but that its large debts lead to overall losses. There was a breach of the debt covenants earlier this year, which ultimately led to Peel taking overall control. Presumably Peel's deep pockets have resolved the debt crisis.
BasilBush is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 20:14
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Middleton St.George
Age: 69
Posts: 231
Vantage and Peel shares

Thanks for the answers, it does make one wonder why Vantage become involved at all?
Maybe they were a smoke screen to blur the figures with 35% this and 50% that?
Did Vantage profit from their dalliance in the Peel Airports and the share sales?
Beafer is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2014, 20:22
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
Vantage will have lost out badly, especially from their forced withdrawal from Liverpool (which would have accounted for the vast bulk of their initial investment). Their problem was that their backers, Citi Infrastructure Investors, had a change in strategy and decided to withdraw from a lot of their investments, including Vantage. When Liverpool breached its debt covenants earlier in the year, the banks would have required the shareholders to put in more cash to pay down at least some of the debt (technically the banks could have called in the entire debt for immediate repayment). With Citi having lost interest, Vantage had no access to funds and so were at the mercy of Peel. Peel will have 'negotiated' with Vantage to buy their shares back, I imagine for a fraction of their original value. Exit a bunch of embarrassed Canadians, who had originally bought the airports on an inflated valuation.

See http://www.richmond-news.com/news/yv...ment-1.1003387

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1344...-in-uk-airport
BasilBush is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2014, 20:01
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,656
DTV has been storing caravans for some time now - there are plenty on site now.
As storage has been taking place for so long, could someone explain why there is no barrier or fence between caravans and the rest of the car park ? Seems odd to me that people would store high value items in a relatively insecure manner - or that the company insuring Peel's liability against theft would accept this.

Separately all seemed rather sad seeing the terminal effectively closed down at 4:15 pm on a Saturday afternoon
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2014, 20:45
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MAN
Posts: 305
The Citi/Vantage split was not related to any specific concerns with the airport investments but rather reflected a much broader change of strategy. The airports were a tiny part of Citi's troubled infrastructure division.

See Citigroup Seeks to Exit Alternative Investments Unit - WSJ

The airport j-v with Peel was just a victim of this wider change of strategy, rather than the cause of it.

The only other thing I would say on 003 1/2's interesting contribution is that Liverpool did have a positive Ebitda when it was sold to the j-v, so it was reasonable to attribute a decent value to it. The same couldn't be said of DTV and Doncaster, however, which presumably dragged down the overall value of the group of airports.
BasilBush is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2014, 07:14
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 4,427
Separately all seemed rather sad seeing the terminal effectively closed down at 4:15 pm on a Saturday afternoon
Should have been bustling with the weekly Jersey!
SWBKCB is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2014, 12:30
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: on the border line
Posts: 81
DTV. the future..again!

Interesting times...see earlier posts...Bristol ,pik ,Manston etc. could be some major movement in ownershps ..where do we stand..,are we safe??? DTVmovements..any more inside gen...or is this what you have really been hinting at?
highwideandugly is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2014, 18:20
  #148 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 866
highwideandugly - not sure I follow? If you're hinting at a change of ownership I wouldn't be privy to that kind of information, but that being said, as the deal with the Canadians proved, Peel wouldn't be able to keep something on that scale under wraps and I've heard nothing, pretty sure Peel have no plans to leave, if they did, I don't think they would be working on some of the projects that they're currently involved in.
DTVAirport is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 12:58
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Teesside
Posts: 194
Change the record...

Beafer...any chance of a new line of attack from you please? The last thread was shut down - does this thread have to follow the same route?

I'm not interested in ownership, Peel's balance sheets or Auntie Doris. I'm interested in the future of the airport and its routes - actually the title of this forum.....

Last edited by P330; 29th Jul 2014 at 14:59.
P330 is online now  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 14:04
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE ENGLAND
Posts: 936
P330 In this instance then I am in complete agreement with you.
It is achieving nothing in quoting from a "rag" in respect of whose contributors are by their own admission totally out of their depth.
Only corporate, legal and financial experts could begin to make sense of the whole."
There are actually quite a lot of financial experts about, though one suspects have better things to do with their free time.
One final note, then there are clearly many bitter individuals outside of DTVA who have come off second best in their dealings with "Peel", who see sensationalism in "nit picking" as a tool to attract others to their cause.
From my point then there is little to suggest from the DTVA perspective that their sentiments are not well founded, though as said then this is not a viable "tack" for this thread to go down.
It takes "two to Tango" & given that "Peel" are one, then perhaps looking a bit closer to home may be the way to seek comfort (or otherwise) than winging on about the activities of a mega organisation.... at least on this thread !
skyman771 is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 15:13
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Teesside
Posts: 194
Thanks Skyman

Thanks Skyman....here here!

Its been interesting watching this thread from the side lines these last couple of weeks. I'm confident there are plans in the pipeline that will secure the current airport traffic and build on it, as DTV Airport has suggested.

The problem for the public, or a forum like this is, it is now a case of "the boy who cried wolf". No-one is going to believe any positive news about the future (based on internet postings and management PR) until the actions start to happen and the benefits are realised. No benefit in criticising those that are more certain about the future than others; let's simply wait and see what happens. There are two realities right now:
  1. There are credible plans in place to sustain the airport.
  2. Peel have little or no track record on delivery on such plans for MME.
Either Peel's success rate will continue or they will finally deliver on a project that sustains (or even grows) an airport for the future. One thing I am certain of is that local management believe in the plans, are working hard on them and aim to deliver them. Whether they are competent to do that and whether this puiblic image counters a contradictory, more clandestine motive elsewhere in the Peel group is another debate.
P330 is online now  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 15:56
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Middlesbrough U.K.
Age: 82
Posts: 355
Teesside Auirport

Isn't what Beafer says of interest? If there's no money in the pot how do you develop? Or have you got some ideas?
Lancelot37 is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 16:26
  #153 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 866
Originally Posted by Beafer
Could this lack of cash be the real reason why they didnít invest the promised £20m into DTV?
But they did, because whether you like it or not (and I don't) absorbing annual losses is classed as investment. You should know that given it's been discussed to death on here and yet again you're raising the same issues over and over despite conclusive answers being given in the past. It's also on the DTVA Facts forum that Robert Ryan mentioned a few days ago.

Originally Posted by Lancelot37
If there's no money in the pot how do you develop?
Well this is where the housing - on land unsuitable for aviation use - comes in to play, this will raise the finance necessary.
DTVAirport is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 20:25
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 164
Why don't they just have done with airport, get it closed and get this ridiculous thread off this forum
RobT100 is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 20:33
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE ENGLAND
Posts: 936
absorbing annual losses is classed as investment.
Struggling with this !
skyman771 is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2014, 20:38
  #156 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 866
Me too skyman, but unfortunately that seems to be the norm, in any industry.
DTVAirport is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2014, 20:19
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: on the border line
Posts: 81
Crystal balls...

So there's a massive decline so what?! Doesn't mean we won't one day bounce back! I can't share what I know because I'm told it's commercially sensitive but in the same breath it's nice to let people know that there may well be light at the end of the tunnel.

4th October. 2012. Sorry DTV. Was looking back at threads for something and found this posted by you.

So nothing really has changed has it..maybe plenty of winks and nudges and caravans..but nothing of any aviation substance.

As always more questions than answers but....why are Sycamore so quiet,why are Cobham still here and finally when are the first house bricks to be laid?
highwideandugly is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2014, 22:43
  #158 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 866
Highwide, the bouncing back bit still applies, and I'm sure if I looked back I could quite easily name two or three things from that time period that were confidential but ultimately happened, but I'm just back home from a pretty eleven hour shift so frankly, I can't be ad
DTVAirport is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 01:40
  #159 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Near MME, England, UK
Age: 31
Posts: 866
Beafer, you're so full of

And to clarify, I don't work at DTVA, just in case my name confuses anyone in to thinking otherwise. My username is the name of an old fansite I used to run many years ago prior to the DTV Movements website being founded.
DTVAirport is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2014, 02:59
  #160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Crowle United Kingdom
Age: 46
Posts: 350
Any actual route news or is it getting worse
onyxcrowle is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.