Cancellations due to snow

[Ianp83]

I understand the need for cancellations particularly at LHR with increased spacing requirements in poor vis / snow, but who decides which flights are cancelled? Does the airport operator say cut 10% of slots from each airline and the airline decides which flights go or is there some other methodology? Is there no contingency for extending hours of operation for the 1/2 weeks a year this is a problem or do the local residents' groups/CAA prohibit this?

The airlines get a lot of stick as do the airport operators for not being able to handle poor weather (such as R4 interview this morning) but I wondered who makes these final decisions?

[Norman.D.Landing]

HADACAB sits and between them all parties decide upon a percentage schedule reduction. After that its down to the airlines to decide which services to cancel. The timing of the weather is factored in as we'll.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by Norman.D.Landing

HADACAB sits and between them all parties decide upon a percentage schedule reduction.

Looking at Friday 18 Jan from noon (when the snow really struck) to midnight, that patently didn't happen.

Virgin, Air Canada, United - every one of their total of 30 departures operated.

BA - only 49 of 194 departures operated, rest cancelled (including 27 of their 65 long-haul cancelled).

[Ianp83]

Originally Posted by WHBM

Virgin, Air Canada, United - every one of their total of 30 departures operated.

BA - only 49 of 194 departures operated, rest cancelled (including 27 of their 65 long-haul cancelled).

I wonder if the short-haul BA were affected by destination weather problems? Doesn't explain the long-haul though.

[WHBM]

I'm familiar with BA winter operations into Helsinki, Finland, and St Petersburg, Russia. Turnround done by handling agents at both places. Snow on runway (but adequately ploughed by airport and fully operational). De-icing turns up on time, baggage handlers ready, departures on time in falling snow, which of course the aircraft is fully certified to do. In fact sometimes even in these conditions they can pick up some of the time on turnround lost by the outbound at Heathrow !

Back at Heathrow in much better conditions it all falls apart.

[Ianp83]

Thanks for the info. Found the HADACAB info which gives a helpful table

http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File/LHR%20Local%20Guideline%20%204%20-%20v6.pdf

[Ianp83]

Originally Posted by WHBM

I'm familiar with BA winter operations into Helsinki, Finland, and St Petersburg, Russia. Turnround done by handling agents at both places. Snow on runway (but adequately ploughed by airport and fully operational). De-icing turns up on time, baggage handlers ready, departures on time in falling snow, which of course the aircraft is fully certified to do. In fact sometimes even in these conditions they can pick up some of the time on turnround lost by the outbound at Heathrow !

Back at Heathrow in much better conditions it all falls apart.

I presume those airports don't operate at the same capacity though - or perhaps they do?

I had no delay this weekend at STN landing while the snow was falling and the plough sat at the hold.

[Old Grouch]

I agree that the issue of capacity is a major one, of course. Naturally, bad weather will affect operations. Having operated to/worked at LHR and another major European airport, is that this disruption could be lessened (not eradicated, of course) by adequate investment in infrastructure, equipment, procedures and manpower, an investment that we're only seeing emerge in the last few years. No matter how much capacity there is, things won't go particularly smoothly if the ground handlers/service providers are generally, chronically short of staff, something that I have repeatedly experienced at LHR. There is also a question of different cultures and approaches to work.

[118.70]

I see the House of Lords had a quick scamper around the Heathrow fiasco at

Airports: Heathrow — Question: 23 Jan 2013: House of Lords debates - TheyWorkForYou

and Lord Attlee drew attention to the inclusion of an operational resilience condition in the likely licences to be issued under the Civil Aviation Act.

I haven't seen if the CAA has issued any more recent guidance as to what form that may take - but one indicative proposal was included in

www.caa.co.uk/docs/589/20121106%20CAA%20presentation%20on%20airport%20licences%20AP FG%2812%2908.pdf

The licensee shall operate an efficient and reliable airport.

The licensee shall effectively cooperate and coordinate with all relevant parties at the airport in meeting the requirements of this condition.

In the event of service disruption, however caused, the licensee shall use best endeavours to
a) minimise detriment to passengers
b) not unduly discriminate between classes of providers or (?of) air transport services and passengers and
c) provide or ensure the provision of timely, accurate and clear information to, and adequate communication with, passengers......