New London west airport
Its on another thread but I will refloat my suggestion here that there is ample land just west of LHR-a bit undualting but earthmovers can fix that. Hardly any houses and they are all owned by the same Family so only one small group to deal with Also very convenient for Legoland and a popular castle, I cannot think why no one has looked at this option before.
I also made the point that by the time UK has made its mind up all the interline trafic will have gone elsewhere, AMS,CDG,FRA and a two runway LHR will be able to handle whats left of demand anyway.
Just build a third runway but give the good peopel of Sipson a fair and attractive settlement, I doubt many are that opposed to moving but frightened that as always the Government will spend a fortune to try and cheat the people who have to move to the greatest possible degree
PB
I also made the point that by the time UK has made its mind up all the interline trafic will have gone elsewhere, AMS,CDG,FRA and a two runway LHR will be able to handle whats left of demand anyway.
Just build a third runway but give the good peopel of Sipson a fair and attractive settlement, I doubt many are that opposed to moving but frightened that as always the Government will spend a fortune to try and cheat the people who have to move to the greatest possible degree
PB
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Never going to happen! Forget about HS2, it is too far into the future and would take pax away from BHX to LHR, not the other way around.
And the airlines are going to leave LHR and shift to BHX because......
And the airlines are going to leave LHR and shift to BHX because......
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 2nd Sep 2012 at 13:08.
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Bhx is not the only airport or location that fits the bill!
The sad truth is like the new wembly and the Olympics and just about everything else, the uk only exists inside the m25!
The sad truth is like the new wembly and the Olympics and just about everything else, the uk only exists inside the m25!
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BHX doesn't have the range of destinations and the frequency of flights.
No disrespect to BHX, but the fact remains that carriers tend to use MAN as a second UK destination rather than BHX (or GLA for that matter). There are only a handful of carriers at, and destinations served from, BHX that are not also at LHR.
HS2 won't change this any more than the motorway system did back in the day.
IF LHR operating at over 100% of capacity becomes untenable, BHX (and others) will be used purely as stepping stone to AMS and KL will be "quids in".
That is the problem in a nutshell: if LHR isn't expanded, traffic goes abroad, not to other UK airports, taking tourism, business, trade and inward investment with it.
It's not a difficult concept to understand!
No disrespect to BHX, but the fact remains that carriers tend to use MAN as a second UK destination rather than BHX (or GLA for that matter). There are only a handful of carriers at, and destinations served from, BHX that are not also at LHR.
HS2 won't change this any more than the motorway system did back in the day.
IF LHR operating at over 100% of capacity becomes untenable, BHX (and others) will be used purely as stepping stone to AMS and KL will be "quids in".
That is the problem in a nutshell: if LHR isn't expanded, traffic goes abroad, not to other UK airports, taking tourism, business, trade and inward investment with it.
It's not a difficult concept to understand!
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4 rwy airport near Heathrow
"Near" Heathrow is the key: so unlikely to be in Berks/Bucks/Oxon.
Are the 2 existing rwys included or do they mean 4 more?
Near LHR, adjacant to the Great Western railway, crossrail, and and the motorway network, large swathes of England accessible by train with one change (at Reading).........sounds like the area just north of LHR.
If it isn't, why the secrecy? and again, same as Fantasy Island, how do they persuade airlines and pax to use it rather than LHR?
Are the 2 existing rwys included or do they mean 4 more?
Near LHR, adjacant to the Great Western railway, crossrail, and and the motorway network, large swathes of England accessible by train with one change (at Reading).........sounds like the area just north of LHR.
If it isn't, why the secrecy? and again, same as Fantasy Island, how do they persuade airlines and pax to use it rather than LHR?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 2nd Sep 2012 at 13:42.
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(That is the problem in a nutshell: if LHR isn't expanded, traffic goes abroad)
So it's a problem, in a nutshell, if much of the air and noise pollution goes abroad?
The reggie spotters might be disappointed if it goes abroad but I'd imagine many others would be dancing in the streets!
So it's a problem, in a nutshell, if much of the air and noise pollution goes abroad?
The reggie spotters might be disappointed if it goes abroad but I'd imagine many others would be dancing in the streets!
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Smoke screen !
All this talk of an airport west of Heathrow is about defusing the opposition to the third runway at Heathrow from those living to the west of Heathrow.
It is a roundabout way of saying if you oppose the third runway at LHR we will build it next to your house!
With that message from the government a few extra flights going over your head at 6000 ft sounds like a lot better option, so best not say too much about the third runway.
It is a roundabout way of saying if you oppose the third runway at LHR we will build it next to your house!
With that message from the government a few extra flights going over your head at 6000 ft sounds like a lot better option, so best not say too much about the third runway.
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Not a lot in terms of direct spend, but they pay APD and taxes (depending on route and stopover times) and as many of them fly on British carriers (not that there are too many of those left now) there is an indirect benefit.
Also, the friendly and efficient welcome they get at the major airhubs might encourage them to come back for a holiday or business trip ..... or maybe not!
Also, the friendly and efficient welcome they get at the major airhubs might encourage them to come back for a holiday or business trip ..... or maybe not!
Not a lot in terms of direct spend, but they pay APD and taxes (depending on route and stopover times) and as many of them fly on British carriers (not that there are too many of those left now) there is an indirect benefit.
Also, the friendly and efficient welcome they get at the major airhubs might encourage them to come back for a holiday or business trip ..... or maybe not!
Yup there are some I will or have visited but transiting through ORD has made no opinion on me wanting to visit Chicago etc.
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You've really got to think laterally here.
BA/IAG buy KLM from loss-making Air France. A new off-shore airport is then built for BA/KLM to share as their home base in the middle of the North Sea, well away from any people at all.
The new Schip-row Airport is built for a modest £1,000bn with 12 runways in all directions and will be completely self-sufficient due to the 10,000 wind turbines located on the rail bridges from London/Amsterdam.
HS3 is then built at £500bn so that both countries can access Heathrow-Baan in only 30 minutes from central London/Amsterdam.
BA/IAG buy KLM from loss-making Air France. A new off-shore airport is then built for BA/KLM to share as their home base in the middle of the North Sea, well away from any people at all.
The new Schip-row Airport is built for a modest £1,000bn with 12 runways in all directions and will be completely self-sufficient due to the 10,000 wind turbines located on the rail bridges from London/Amsterdam.
HS3 is then built at £500bn so that both countries can access Heathrow-Baan in only 30 minutes from central London/Amsterdam.
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Sunday Express Today
LITTLE has changed within the Coalition over its long summer recess. Both sides are still engaged in an unedifying squabble over key policies and nowhere is the strain proving greater than over airport policy.
The Coalition’s twice-delayed airport capacity consultation is due out this autumn, with Cameron apparently warming to backbench demands to put the ruled-out Heathrow third runway back on the agenda.
A Sunday Express poll reveals voters are just about equally divided over where a new hub airport should be located, though Birmingham Airport narrowly topped the poll.
It’s something perhaps for Cameron to consider when the Tories travel to Britain’s second city for their annual party conference next month.
The Coalition’s twice-delayed airport capacity consultation is due out this autumn, with Cameron apparently warming to backbench demands to put the ruled-out Heathrow third runway back on the agenda.
A Sunday Express poll reveals voters are just about equally divided over where a new hub airport should be located, though Birmingham Airport narrowly topped the poll.
It’s something perhaps for Cameron to consider when the Tories travel to Britain’s second city for their annual party conference next month.
The issue of transit passengers is not what they bring to UK/LHR in money terms its what allows BA and VS and others to operate such extensive networks and frequencies from LHR. Take away say 30% of the traffic and LHR becomes Stockholm or Brussels and a much much more limited service and thats what hams the UL economy in terms of tourism and commerce.
And it isnt like the traffic goes to the other side of the world it strengthens AMS CDG and FRA and the trend continues on
As for the comment about noise and polution-get real please , aircraft are a negligable source of polution in both CO2 and Noise compared to road traffic-are you advocating a return toa stone age economy?
Air travelis a must in the modern world and it must be properly managed both in terms of polution control and sensible managed growth
And it isnt like the traffic goes to the other side of the world it strengthens AMS CDG and FRA and the trend continues on
As for the comment about noise and polution-get real please , aircraft are a negligable source of polution in both CO2 and Noise compared to road traffic-are you advocating a return toa stone age economy?
Air travelis a must in the modern world and it must be properly managed both in terms of polution control and sensible managed growth
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Is this the 'secret' four runway airport. Pleiade | Projects | LOX | Documents This report is for LOX airport, located between Grove and Didcot. Also has an option to move Brize Norton to this location.
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That really is the point as stated by pax britanica.
Would BA and VS fly to so many North American cities if it wan't for the transfer traffic. Would BA fly to so many cities in France, in Spain, in Germany, in Italy, etc., if it wan't for the transfer traffic to their longhaul at LHR. Would BA have a presence in India outside Bombay and Delhi, if it wan't for the transfer traffic?
Without transfer pax many destinations would be unviable, reducing choice for those starting and/ending their flights at LHR, and it's the same for any hub airport throughout the world.
Would BA and VS fly to so many North American cities if it wan't for the transfer traffic. Would BA fly to so many cities in France, in Spain, in Germany, in Italy, etc., if it wan't for the transfer traffic to their longhaul at LHR. Would BA have a presence in India outside Bombay and Delhi, if it wan't for the transfer traffic?
Without transfer pax many destinations would be unviable, reducing choice for those starting and/ending their flights at LHR, and it's the same for any hub airport throughout the world.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 2nd Sep 2012 at 17:52.
Sorry guys but giving the "well we need transit pax as they would go elsewehre" doesn't really cut it.
Why should £x billion be spent on an airport if there is no payback.
Its not a P***** contest with AMS / FRA / CDG to see who has the biggest airport.
Spending billions on an airport so thousands of jobs will be created to be filled by economic migrants makes not much sense.
Why should £x billion be spent on an airport if there is no payback.
Its not a P***** contest with AMS / FRA / CDG to see who has the biggest airport.
Spending billions on an airport so thousands of jobs will be created to be filled by economic migrants makes not much sense.
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Yes it is!
In business it is called "maintaining market share", and aviation is a business, not a public service.
Why do you think they talk about airports "competing" with eachother and "competing" to attarct airlines? Why do competition authorities get involved?
In business it is called "maintaining market share", and aviation is a business, not a public service.
Why do you think they talk about airports "competing" with eachother and "competing" to attarct airlines? Why do competition authorities get involved?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 2nd Sep 2012 at 18:12.
racedo
You have it hopelessly wrong.This is not about airports competing with each other -or a mines bigger than yours situation. It is about maintaining London and indeed Englands global competitiveness. And thats true even if all the jobs at the airport are filled by natives of Burkina Fasa or where-ever.
if you want your children to be unemployed or have no chance of a serious high level high quality job keep on complaining because no big airport for London means no big bucks and much as I dislike the unequal distribution of those bucks we are better off having them shared out here than France or Holland or Germany
You have it hopelessly wrong.This is not about airports competing with each other -or a mines bigger than yours situation. It is about maintaining London and indeed Englands global competitiveness. And thats true even if all the jobs at the airport are filled by natives of Burkina Fasa or where-ever.
if you want your children to be unemployed or have no chance of a serious high level high quality job keep on complaining because no big airport for London means no big bucks and much as I dislike the unequal distribution of those bucks we are better off having them shared out here than France or Holland or Germany
Sorry guys but giving the "well we need transit pax as they would go elsewhere" doesn't really cut it.
What part of that do you not get ?
