Monarch - 3
Join Date: Jun 2005
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zbobserver, I'm not aware of any such extra restriction on the ATOL and indeed if that were the case one would expect all flights to be ATOL protected, which I don't believe is the case for flight only inbound to UK flights for example.
If you buy an airline these days you look at its EBITDAR. If it's OK then you may make money, but only if the balance sheet has sufficient cash to ride several 10s of £m either side of what your business plan forecasts (100s of £m for national carrier size airlines). Changes in fuel price, exchange rates and market conditions can easily mean you have a rough ride.
As an investor you need deep pockets and faith in the company if you are going to reap the rewards over the longer term. The 737 MAX 8 deal with Boeing should further improve Monarch's finances very significantly, but of course it has to get to the point where the maintentenance and fuel saving costs feed through to build the balance sheet, and in the mean time finance will have to be raised.
You cannot buy an airline and not put in a sufficient cash buffer and expect to ride out even normal cyclical changes, let alone those seen recently. Easy and FR for example ride out such cycles all the time, but nobody notices as their cash reserves are more than adequate for the nature of the business in hand.
As with any business, ultimately cash is king.
If you buy an airline these days you look at its EBITDAR. If it's OK then you may make money, but only if the balance sheet has sufficient cash to ride several 10s of £m either side of what your business plan forecasts (100s of £m for national carrier size airlines). Changes in fuel price, exchange rates and market conditions can easily mean you have a rough ride.
As an investor you need deep pockets and faith in the company if you are going to reap the rewards over the longer term. The 737 MAX 8 deal with Boeing should further improve Monarch's finances very significantly, but of course it has to get to the point where the maintentenance and fuel saving costs feed through to build the balance sheet, and in the mean time finance will have to be raised.
You cannot buy an airline and not put in a sufficient cash buffer and expect to ride out even normal cyclical changes, let alone those seen recently. Easy and FR for example ride out such cycles all the time, but nobody notices as their cash reserves are more than adequate for the nature of the business in hand.
As with any business, ultimately cash is king.
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I do not think that Monarch scheduled flights are covered by ATOL. An ATOL certificate must be issued at the time of booking and certainly this has not happened on my next three bookings. From memory ATOL certificates have not been issued for over a year.
Bookings with Avro are covered by ATOL. Bookings for flight plus accommodation are covered by ATOL. Packages are covered by ATOL.
Bookings with Avro are covered by ATOL. Bookings for flight plus accommodation are covered by ATOL. Packages are covered by ATOL.
Monarch bookings done via Avro used to be for charter flights, but Monarch no longer operate any charter flights. Now Avro is just an advertising platform for shonky OTAs to advertise on.
being posted I this thread. If you don't know, keep your gob shut.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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There certainly is. You could always Google it. The R (for "Rent" of aircraft) takes in the cost of leases.
From Wiki:
Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization, and restructuring or rent costs (EBITDAR) is a non-GAAP metric that can be used to evaluate a company's financial performance.
EBITDAR = revenue – expenses (excluding tax, interest, depreciation, amortization and rent costs)
EBITDAR can be of use when comparing two companies in the same industry with different structure of their assets. For example, consider two nursing home companies: one company rents its nursing homes and the other owns its homes and thus does not pay rent but instead has to make capital expenditures that are not necessarily of the same order of magnitude as the depreciation. By looking at EBITDAR, one can compare the efficiency of the companies' operations, without regard to the structure of their assets.
Some companies use an EBITDAR where "R" indicates "Rinel Costs". While this analysis of profits before restructuring costs is also helpful, such a metric should better be termed 'adjusted EBITDA'.
Related to EBITDAR is "EBITDAL", "rent costs" being replaced by "lease costs".
From Wiki:
Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, amortization, and restructuring or rent costs (EBITDAR) is a non-GAAP metric that can be used to evaluate a company's financial performance.
EBITDAR = revenue – expenses (excluding tax, interest, depreciation, amortization and rent costs)
EBITDAR can be of use when comparing two companies in the same industry with different structure of their assets. For example, consider two nursing home companies: one company rents its nursing homes and the other owns its homes and thus does not pay rent but instead has to make capital expenditures that are not necessarily of the same order of magnitude as the depreciation. By looking at EBITDAR, one can compare the efficiency of the companies' operations, without regard to the structure of their assets.
Some companies use an EBITDAR where "R" indicates "Rinel Costs". While this analysis of profits before restructuring costs is also helpful, such a metric should better be termed 'adjusted EBITDA'.
Related to EBITDAR is "EBITDAL", "rent costs" being replaced by "lease costs".
Join Date: Jan 2016
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I have flown Monarch back in day of the 757 and A300 many times between Manchester and Alicante. Always booked through AVRO. They were just the usual charter airline and never thought anything great or outstanding about them. Nowadays, I would never consider booking a flight with them. Think times have changed and better deals can be had and I find jet2 holidays hard to beat. I think that's their problem. People see them as old and expensive and to a certain extent legacy. Just my opinion.
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It's in very few peoples interest to not at least extend the deadline if that's required.
If monarch bring in e.g. The Chinese gorilla , this episode will soon be a distant memory and monarch could flourish .
I do find it telling that greybull haven't coughed up and avoided this weeks nightmare .
If monarch bring in e.g. The Chinese gorilla , this episode will soon be a distant memory and monarch could flourish .
I do find it telling that greybull haven't coughed up and avoided this weeks nightmare .
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But it's before rental . Ebitdar allows you to compare airlines that operating lease aircraft vs airlines that finance lease, debt finance or just own the fleet .
I.e. 2 airlines both make £10m ebitda , but one pays operating leases of 6m, the other has borrowed money to buy them and the interest cost is obviously excluded from ebitda . The 10m figure is misleading as in one airline it includes the fleet , but in the other excludes .
I.e. 2 airlines both make £10m ebitda , but one pays operating leases of 6m, the other has borrowed money to buy them and the interest cost is obviously excluded from ebitda . The 10m figure is misleading as in one airline it includes the fleet , but in the other excludes .
Join Date: Aug 2007
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On checking alicante flight arrivals half an hour ago for to day I have noticed the mystery ghost flights up against the monarch flights United airline flight numbers one against gatwick and this strange one cancelled from Tenerife but all the rest of the monarch flights running as normal?
Join Date: May 2011
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Lotus1: Are you getting this info from FR24? If so, take no notice. I don't know where they get their info from but, if you look across the board at these United flights, they appear to be utilising Quantum physics, flying from one airport to another then departing a 3rd airport without making the inbound flight to the 3rd airport. Incidentally, N116UA is currently over southern France, heading for Hahn. ALC arrivals show UA2295 due in from PMI in the next 5 minutes. Except it hasn't flown anywhere yet. Similarly, UA2294 is due in from Manchester soon. That makes 2 UA flights expected at ALC, yet one of the 2 is en route to Hahn. Incidentally, both United 744s were booked into LGW yesterday and that didn't happen.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Ivan aromer
Rhein Main? I doubt it. It closed in Dec 2005. Ramstein is the only AMC base now. HHN does accept military traffic.
Rhein Main? I doubt it. It closed in Dec 2005. Ramstein is the only AMC base now. HHN does accept military traffic.
Last edited by Flightmech; 30th Sep 2016 at 10:42.
Join Date: Oct 2008
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The CAA are really flexing their muscles with this whole saga! Putting the whole Titan fleet, much of Air Tanker and the US stuff on standby at CAA expense is a real statement of intent. Someone must have really pissed them off! I guess the ATOL renewal time is their only opportunity to assert themselves as regulator.
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It's all lovely having an armada of foreign aircraft on standby should the worst happen. But would it not be a better use of resources to simply call in the charters if/when Monarch goes the way of the Dodo?
At worst you'll need to wait a day or so and your only expense would be extra nights in hotels, not the expense of large aircraft flying half way around the the world 'just in case'.
The ATOL protecrion scheme is a finite resource. It should be reserved and not squandered on jollies for dozens of air crews and air craft.
At worst you'll need to wait a day or so and your only expense would be extra nights in hotels, not the expense of large aircraft flying half way around the the world 'just in case'.
The ATOL protecrion scheme is a finite resource. It should be reserved and not squandered on jollies for dozens of air crews and air craft.
Join Date: May 2011
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Indeed, it does seem strange.
I can't help but wonder if the CAA has reservations about other another ATOL holder or even holders due for renewal too. It's a lot of capacity, even just for ferrying Monarch's passengers.
I can't help but wonder if the CAA has reservations about other another ATOL holder or even holders due for renewal too. It's a lot of capacity, even just for ferrying Monarch's passengers.