Thomas Cook financial woes
All sounds very worrying. Have a holiday booked for March with TCX, ATOL protected and all but I wouldn't mind actually getting to go!
I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens in the next few weeks/months...
As some have already mentioned, TCX got themselves into this mess, but the media certainly don't help in times like these.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens in the next few weeks/months...
As some have already mentioned, TCX got themselves into this mess, but the media certainly don't help in times like these.
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Lederhosen: you suggested the accountants wouldn't sign off the results. Not true. The company itself delayed the publication because the costs of the required added headroom could impact on the numbers. The company confirmed its profits for the year would be in line with expectations: around 320mil gross. All stated by TC. And lets be clear: the company has not asked for extra cash because its struggling to stay afloat, its to give it headroom on the overdraft. Hardly surprising given the present economic conditions. How much did BMI lose this year? How much loss has Comet announced today? Remember not so long ago when BA was worth less than Ryanair because of its share price?
But hey, its a package holiday firm, and if there's one thing the media loves more than a shagging footballer, its a story about 'holiday horrors'.
But hey, its a package holiday firm, and if there's one thing the media loves more than a shagging footballer, its a story about 'holiday horrors'.
I Have Control
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Rotten British Press and Media.
Correct. The rotten-to-the-core UK press will try to demolish TCX, forgetting the millions of £ of advertising placed on their pages by the same company. Let's hope the Daily Mail, Express, and Sun all fold soon. Pity we cannot help them with some nasty publicity. That is sadly their domain. As it is with the BBC.
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Service non existant
Thomas cook have for a long time been a nightmare to deal with, as a retail agent we do at times have to deal with them. We receive more complaints from customers about standards, thats after attempting to get correct full documentation, then just to rub faces in it some more the customer service staff are all but useless, I am sure most can not even read a letter corrrectly.
Then if they travel with the airline most endure rudeness from aircrew, thats if they can be bothered in the first place.
It would do the likes of Thomas Cook to look back at when they needed the independent agents as large retail groups did not exist as they do today, and remember without us, they would not be who they are today, the same goes to others who feel they are big enough to turn the the back. I for one feel Cooks staff have made the bed by rudeness and being unhelpful, now its time to pay the bill.
Tipical od the level of TC staff, one of my staff attended a via canada training day some years ago, where the manager of a TC office not only expressed surprised at finding Niagra was in Canada, but then asked the representative from VIA RAIL why they only operate in Canada.
Then if they travel with the airline most endure rudeness from aircrew, thats if they can be bothered in the first place.
It would do the likes of Thomas Cook to look back at when they needed the independent agents as large retail groups did not exist as they do today, and remember without us, they would not be who they are today, the same goes to others who feel they are big enough to turn the the back. I for one feel Cooks staff have made the bed by rudeness and being unhelpful, now its time to pay the bill.
Tipical od the level of TC staff, one of my staff attended a via canada training day some years ago, where the manager of a TC office not only expressed surprised at finding Niagra was in Canada, but then asked the representative from VIA RAIL why they only operate in Canada.
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Travel57 - how can you not feel for the staff? with this media bashing - how do you think the staff feel with silly comments.
I'm sure as a travel agent you took the 15/20% commission on offer years ago?
Once again let's stop the Thomas Cook bashing and show the support needed.
By the way share price up today
I'm sure as a travel agent you took the 15/20% commission on offer years ago?
Once again let's stop the Thomas Cook bashing and show the support needed.
By the way share price up today
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Towerman, don't be stupid. It's clear passengers are googling and finding themselves reading threads like this on here, so let's not stir more crap and be factful.
If I had £800m credited to TCX and I have two options:
1) Don't allow any more and reclaim once the administrator is in.
2) Add an additional £100m credit line and see the ongoing payback
Less risk in #2 right now. Sure, it'll reach a point where enough is enough. But I hear Suisse financing discussions are remaining positive.
If I had £800m credited to TCX and I have two options:
1) Don't allow any more and reclaim once the administrator is in.
2) Add an additional £100m credit line and see the ongoing payback
Less risk in #2 right now. Sure, it'll reach a point where enough is enough. But I hear Suisse financing discussions are remaining positive.
Interesting first post deepknight, you seem closer to all this than I am and I found your explanation interesting. So the company decided to pull the final results presentation at the last moment because the cost of future borrowing will impact on last year's results? I need to get my head round that one. The accountants played no role in all of this. TC just decided unilaterally that they would be comfortable with a bit more headroom on their overdraft. There is no problem everything is fine. It is not struggling to keep afloat it just needs to borrow more money. I agree with the last poster about the refinancing by the way.
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Deepknight is on the right lines, for sure. If this had of happened say, 5 months ago, it would be just another business decision as part of the results due at the moment. But the issue is timing. Failure to provide full results and discussion of more finance, sends out "stupid" signals. But the mention of "we need a further £100m" is not a bad thing. Sure it'll affect results ongoing, new interest payments on the accounts and newly found expenses. But it is nothing more than a buffer. TCX is struggling in some sides of the business, but the actual flying of the planes (basics) is profitable for them. With the bad signs in the industry and various "lower than expectations" announcements from other airlines, TCX is taking the right move to protect itself and creditors are more than understanding of that. Easier to finance a profitable company fromthe future, than a losing company for the past, present and future.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
TCX went to the banks six weeks ago to "restructure their financing arrangements" i.e. extend credit facilities and covenants. Now they're back asking for more - doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the management that they could get it sooooo wrong with results imminent. Perhaps when they did renegotiate a few weeks back, they got as much as the banks were prepared to give (at the time).
Another factor here is the name. TC is huge well known brand. When Airtours (as the holiday group was known) changed its name to MyTravel it, purely by chance, probably saved the company. The reason was that there were still HUGE numbers of the public who had no idea that MyTravel was in fact Aitrtours. The public were still going into "GoingPlaces" travel agencies and booking and I even heard of anecdotal stories of customers saying "I'm not going to book with that MyTravel outfit -they're about to go bust!"
Unfortunately this is a luxury that TC don't have this time - everyone's heard of them.
Certain elements of the media seem to revel in this. I remember when MYT were in the $hit a certain Daily tabloid appeared to be going out of its way to run as many damaging stories as it could - it was almost like it was personal
Been there, done it and my thoughts and best wishes are with all the staff who day in day out do their job and now have that knotted feeling in their gut. My thoughts are NOT with the incompetents who have (again!) driven a great company to the brink but will (again!) no doubt leave with pockets bulging with "compensation" for a job well done
Good luck Kestral!
A4
Another factor here is the name. TC is huge well known brand. When Airtours (as the holiday group was known) changed its name to MyTravel it, purely by chance, probably saved the company. The reason was that there were still HUGE numbers of the public who had no idea that MyTravel was in fact Aitrtours. The public were still going into "GoingPlaces" travel agencies and booking and I even heard of anecdotal stories of customers saying "I'm not going to book with that MyTravel outfit -they're about to go bust!"
Unfortunately this is a luxury that TC don't have this time - everyone's heard of them.
Certain elements of the media seem to revel in this. I remember when MYT were in the $hit a certain Daily tabloid appeared to be going out of its way to run as many damaging stories as it could - it was almost like it was personal
Been there, done it and my thoughts and best wishes are with all the staff who day in day out do their job and now have that knotted feeling in their gut. My thoughts are NOT with the incompetents who have (again!) driven a great company to the brink but will (again!) no doubt leave with pockets bulging with "compensation" for a job well done
Good luck Kestral!
A4
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Why is everybody here once again blaming the media? TCG has been paying over 14% on their bonds for a long time, their creditline has been a multiple of their market capitalisation for quite a while, they themselves announced a delay of their annual reports as they were trying to increase that credit line by another 100Mn, only having done so by 200 Mn a little over a month ago.
The media didn't "cause" the problems TGC find themselves in, they have been an overleveraged, debt ridden company for quite some time. I am surprised the media took this long to report on it.
There comes a point in a companies life when the banks are saying, enough is enough
The media didn't "cause" the problems TGC find themselves in, they have been an overleveraged, debt ridden company for quite some time. I am surprised the media took this long to report on it.
There comes a point in a companies life when the banks are saying, enough is enough
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I'm not suggesting everything is rosey at TC. Far from it. But questions about how could the management get it so wrong, needing another 100m only a month after the last 100m are not suported by the facts. When the company announced the earlier deal, it also told the city it would update the banks on a regular basis incase further deterioration in trading occurred. That's exactly what has happened. The present CEO made that clear in his interview with Robert Peston.
And while the cost of the borrowing may look high, remember TC brings in almost 9 billion pounds in sales. (from it's company report.) Yes, the present coverage will do little to encourage bookings, but the downturn (Egyptian troubles, floods in Thailand putting off the French and the Russians...) will affect TUI too.
And while the cost of the borrowing may look high, remember TC brings in almost 9 billion pounds in sales. (from it's company report.) Yes, the present coverage will do little to encourage bookings, but the downturn (Egyptian troubles, floods in Thailand putting off the French and the Russians...) will affect TUI too.
For all those who bought at 10p.
As of 10:00hrs 25Nov11
You just doubled your money, now trading at over 20p.
Why this is showing as posted inthe early hours I do not know.
As of 10:00hrs 25Nov11
You just doubled your money, now trading at over 20p.
Why this is showing as posted inthe early hours I do not know.
Last edited by TURIN; 25th Nov 2011 at 00:57. Reason: time machine broke again.
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As matters stand, TCX probably can't pay its December wage bill (amongst many other creditors), and hence is in a questionable position.
Will it survive in one shape or another? Yes, it's still got many good parts to the company.
Would anyone book a holiday with them now? No and hence its cash position will be getting much worse on a daily basis.
The banks won't pull the plug due to the political environment but it will be subject to some significant restructuring.
Will it survive in one shape or another? Yes, it's still got many good parts to the company.
Would anyone book a holiday with them now? No and hence its cash position will be getting much worse on a daily basis.
The banks won't pull the plug due to the political environment but it will be subject to some significant restructuring.
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Il bet Ryanairs credit reserve is made up of Creditors/financing that exceeds TCX's, I'd guess anyway.
I know it is thread drift but they are sitting on a cash pile of 3.5Bn, have 8.5Bn in assets and only 3.6Bn in debt as of the last reporting cycle.
MOL is a joker and I for one don't like his antics and constant attention seeking, but he does run a tidy ship and Ryanair will be around for a long time yet.
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Dont think I am stupid JCSL. Let's look at the facts:
Thomas Cook share price falls by 75%
Thomas Cook relies on Dec to Feb early booking season when it takes deposits. As a family - would you want to risk your holiday been affected by booking 7 months in advance? A shift to TUI holidays is inevitable.
Jobs in the current climate are uncertain - there will be a general industry slowdown that will affect all tour operators.
There will be a growing move to booking low cost flights at the last minute and do it yourself car hire and hotel bookings - that way you are not tieing up package holiday payment 12 weeks before travel as required by Thomas Cook TUI and others.
Thomas Cook traditional high yield business markets in Egypt, Thailand and North AFrica have been badly affected.
Thomas Cook carries higher overheads than TUI with its branch network and bureaux in many countries. Closing 200+ shops will affect morale across the network in an industry where staff salaries are low and where 7 day shifts and short staffed branches are a common occurrence.
I am not certainly not wishing that TC goes into Administration, but it would appear likely unless the 17 banks that make up the £1billion pound facility are willing to be exposed. Such further lending would not only take into account market conditions, credit card receivables, forecast results and profits but also the underlying asset value of the non leased aircraft and the liabilities associated with managing, operating and returing their ageing leased aircraft fleet. Certainly my view is shared by some folk close to the core.
A restructuring would allow a leaner more streamlined Thomas Cook to emerge.
Thomas Cook share price falls by 75%
Thomas Cook relies on Dec to Feb early booking season when it takes deposits. As a family - would you want to risk your holiday been affected by booking 7 months in advance? A shift to TUI holidays is inevitable.
Jobs in the current climate are uncertain - there will be a general industry slowdown that will affect all tour operators.
There will be a growing move to booking low cost flights at the last minute and do it yourself car hire and hotel bookings - that way you are not tieing up package holiday payment 12 weeks before travel as required by Thomas Cook TUI and others.
Thomas Cook traditional high yield business markets in Egypt, Thailand and North AFrica have been badly affected.
Thomas Cook carries higher overheads than TUI with its branch network and bureaux in many countries. Closing 200+ shops will affect morale across the network in an industry where staff salaries are low and where 7 day shifts and short staffed branches are a common occurrence.
I am not certainly not wishing that TC goes into Administration, but it would appear likely unless the 17 banks that make up the £1billion pound facility are willing to be exposed. Such further lending would not only take into account market conditions, credit card receivables, forecast results and profits but also the underlying asset value of the non leased aircraft and the liabilities associated with managing, operating and returing their ageing leased aircraft fleet. Certainly my view is shared by some folk close to the core.
A restructuring would allow a leaner more streamlined Thomas Cook to emerge.
I'm not surprised by Ryanair's tactics. They prey on businesses that are in trouble and exploit it by their bad taste in jokes. What do they get out of it? I don't know, but it's shameful.
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What a cheap shot from a 'cheap' airline.
That advert from Ryanair deserves the widest possible publicity. It exposes their despicable attitude and lack of ethics and is another reason to boycott them. It's in the worst possible taste and I would like to think that even some of their loyal customers and supporters would be disgusted by such a tactic and decide to boycott them. But as MoL says the type of people who travel with him only care about (what seems to be) cheap.
Now if Ryanair were to go bust - sadly that would make a lot of people redundant - but it would wipe the smirk off O'Leary's face and that would be worth seeing.
That advert from Ryanair deserves the widest possible publicity. It exposes their despicable attitude and lack of ethics and is another reason to boycott them. It's in the worst possible taste and I would like to think that even some of their loyal customers and supporters would be disgusted by such a tactic and decide to boycott them. But as MoL says the type of people who travel with him only care about (what seems to be) cheap.
Now if Ryanair were to go bust - sadly that would make a lot of people redundant - but it would wipe the smirk off O'Leary's face and that would be worth seeing.