APD to be scrapped on BFS - EWR?
Thread Starter
Osbourne now makes it official.
APD cut on Belfast – New York flights : Belfast Airport News Stories
These politicial arguments will drag on forever. Govts past and present will look to tax anything they can get their hands on. The last one invented APD and the present one certainly won't do anything to reduce it (I'm refering to England). They wonder why there is no growth in aviation especially in the Regions. My feeling is it will only get worse.
APD cut on Belfast – New York flights : Belfast Airport News Stories
These politicial arguments will drag on forever. Govts past and present will look to tax anything they can get their hands on. The last one invented APD and the present one certainly won't do anything to reduce it (I'm refering to England). They wonder why there is no growth in aviation especially in the Regions. My feeling is it will only get worse.
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Driving or catching the train to say CDG to avoid APD doesn't add up, by the time you have paid the fare, the fuel, the car parking it makes no sense, unless your taking a minibus full of people, the NI case is very different, yes you still have to pay for fuel and parking, but if you live to the South of BFS there not a lot in it and if there is two or more travelling it really adds up your looking at a saving of £57 per person!
Reading the press release, it suggest any direct long haul flight, Jet2 to the US or Canada anyone?
Reading the press release, it suggest any direct long haul flight, Jet2 to the US or Canada anyone?
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I am making a statement that to travel BHD/BFS to London you fly. as we are an island off an island we should be a special case when it comes a APD. Similar to the Highlands and Islands.
GB is also an Island off an Island (Ireland, North and South if we are to be precise) so should it get special status also?
The government should work closely with CO/UA to monitor their boardings both on DUBEWR and BFSEWR and try to see in overall terms the upsides from reducing the APD. This should give them some help in trying to ascertain what the likely impact an overall improvement in tourism such an investment would make. Of course we could argue about the approach to such a measurement but CO/UA have the figures which can give clear data year on year. We will have acess to NI & UK stats and the ROI may be available as CO is the only operator on the EWR DUB route.
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Why would i choose to travel to Dublin to fly with a carrier that operates from an airport 15 minutes from my door? I would want to support the local operation as i have done before. So in order to compete with the 3 euro tax the APD from Belfast should be lowered accordingly... as it will be.
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Avoiding APD?
Is it possible to avoid APD (at least the more punitive aspects) by booking via one of the European Hubs - Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Paris? or even Dublin and now possibly Belfast?
If so what are the Pitfalls?
PZULBA - Out of Africa (Retired)
If so what are the Pitfalls?
PZULBA - Out of Africa (Retired)
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pzu,
Yes, make two separate bookings, eg BHX to AMS then AMS to EWR.
The UK govt has no control over where you go once you have left UK airspace - they can only tax you when you make a through booking that originates in the UK.
So why doesn't everyone make separate bookings and avoid this tax? Simple pitfall - doing so gives you no through connectivity, no back up in the case of missed connection.
Hence APD is high enough to sting, high enough to give the green lobby a little less to complain about. It could probably go a little higher, but if it went up, say to £100 on a long haul sector (that's probably where FoE would want it), you would get a mass diversion to AMS, CDG, FRA etc, and it would be counterproductive.
Yes, govt wants to be seen to stimulate business, that is fine for the routes that carry business passengers, but we shouldn't forget that people flying BFS-EWR and then transferring down to MCO might be lining Eisner & co's pockets, but they are doing nothing for UK PLC. At least if they went with VS from LGW / MAN / GLA, they would be using a (partly) British carrier!
Yes, make two separate bookings, eg BHX to AMS then AMS to EWR.
The UK govt has no control over where you go once you have left UK airspace - they can only tax you when you make a through booking that originates in the UK.
So why doesn't everyone make separate bookings and avoid this tax? Simple pitfall - doing so gives you no through connectivity, no back up in the case of missed connection.
Hence APD is high enough to sting, high enough to give the green lobby a little less to complain about. It could probably go a little higher, but if it went up, say to £100 on a long haul sector (that's probably where FoE would want it), you would get a mass diversion to AMS, CDG, FRA etc, and it would be counterproductive.
Yes, govt wants to be seen to stimulate business, that is fine for the routes that carry business passengers, but we shouldn't forget that people flying BFS-EWR and then transferring down to MCO might be lining Eisner & co's pockets, but they are doing nothing for UK PLC. At least if they went with VS from LGW / MAN / GLA, they would be using a (partly) British carrier!
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Sealink , I'm not suggesting that you should travel down to Dublin to fly with CO, i am stating that us being as you put it 'an island off an island' is not good enough reason to give concession on tax level. And clearly this is not the reason why the tax is being reduced.
I too use my local route from BFS to EWR, and will also continue to do so!!
I too use my local route from BFS to EWR, and will also continue to do so!!
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but we shouldn't forget that people flying BFS-EWR and then transferring down to MCO might be lining Eisner & co's pockets, but they are doing nothing for UK PLC.
There is only so far you can go with tax, much like any business, at some point the price becomes too much and people start using alternatives or just stop buying altogether, I fear the UK Government is going to find this out if they continue their APD rises, it certainly isn't doing anything for growth that they are so deperate to see from the private sector.
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If the island off an island is not a reason why then do the Scottish islands have no APD?
The Northern Ireland - US route has considerable wider significance as far as wider business is concerned. Northern Ireland is being sold as a good place for US firms to invest and that strategy is paying off - lots of IT, multimedia and creative industries as opening in Northern Ireland - our senior politicians were on another sales mission to both the west and east coasts 2 week ago and some deals were done.
A direct route from Northern Ireland to the US makes that sell easier
The Northern Ireland - US route has considerable wider significance as far as wider business is concerned. Northern Ireland is being sold as a good place for US firms to invest and that strategy is paying off - lots of IT, multimedia and creative industries as opening in Northern Ireland - our senior politicians were on another sales mission to both the west and east coasts 2 week ago and some deals were done.
A direct route from Northern Ireland to the US makes that sell easier
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If the island off an island is not a reason why then do the Scottish islands have no APD?
NI APD is damaging to the local economy because unlike anywhere else in the UK, people can drive across a land border into a neighbouring EU country where the departure tax is much lower.
APD in the Highlands and Islands is reduced because those air links are "vital to the social and economic welfare of the areas they serve."
Direct long haul services at BFS are not "vital to the social and economic welfare" of Northern Ireland, but this decision reflects the unique situation that the province is in, namely that it shares open land border with another country, and that airports like BFS are disadvantaged by the UK's APD tax in a way that no other in airport in the UK is.
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ara01jbb- I agree fully with you post.
If being an Island off an Island is worth talking about as I said earlier, the same could be said for the Island of GB it too is an Island off an Island, so for that reason should it be cutting all of its airport departures taxes? I think not.
Also the Scottish Islands are very different given that the people on these Island often need to travel to GB to avail of various services eg Hospitals etc...etc..
If being an Island off an Island is worth talking about as I said earlier, the same could be said for the Island of GB it too is an Island off an Island, so for that reason should it be cutting all of its airport departures taxes? I think not.
Also the Scottish Islands are very different given that the people on these Island often need to travel to GB to avail of various services eg Hospitals etc...etc..
Thread Starter
If BFS gained any other long haul routes would Mr Osborne reduce the APD for them? I would imagine carriers will be asking this question when route planning.
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The APD reduction applies to all direct long-haul routes, though currently this is only relevant to the CO EWR.
While this APD reduction was to help secure the only scheduled US service, many of the press releases also talk of helping to establish further long-haul routes. Whether this actually translates into new routes remains to be seen, though I'd guess that YYZ should realistically be on the radar.
APD on direct long-haul flights from Northern Ireland will be cut to the same rate as short-haul flights from November 1, reducing the tax on economy fares to the US from £60 to £12 and in business class from £120 to £24.
Thread Starter
They wonder why there is no growth in aviation especially in the Regions.
Regional airports want same tax reduction as Northern Ireland : Manchester Airport News Stories
Looks like the management at BHX have woken up!!
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Danny R - saying people heading down to MCO / SFB would help the economy because of spending at the airport is tenous. It would be equally stretching it to say that a direct MCO - BFS (scheduled not IT) route would help inbound tourism - yes, there are expats living in Florida, yes, there a Florida residents and business people who might visit NI, but would they make up more than 10% of seats?
I would love to see a breakdown of exactly who is going where on the current EWR-BFS sector. I understand around 70% transfer elsewhere, I don't know about breakdown by nationality.
I accept the logic in supporting this route - there is the prestige that having a long haul route brings to the city, and there is the argument that it is better to go direct than to go east to LHR etc before heading west. BFS also lacks other connection alternatives - eg to FRA etc.
However, just much do these benefits add up to. It seems strange to have one foreign company dictate tax policy to the chancellor, but it won't be the first time that has happened.
Yet aviation as a whole remains a net exporter of cash from the UK. Granted, that has to be put in the context that our climate makes foreign holidays much more attractive, but if we start seeing new routes to Florida, Mexico, the Caribbean etc from BFS, that cannot be good.
Meanwhile, if there is one sector of the market which must surely benefit the economy, it is the UK domestic flights! And they are still taxed twice.
I would love to see a breakdown of exactly who is going where on the current EWR-BFS sector. I understand around 70% transfer elsewhere, I don't know about breakdown by nationality.
I accept the logic in supporting this route - there is the prestige that having a long haul route brings to the city, and there is the argument that it is better to go direct than to go east to LHR etc before heading west. BFS also lacks other connection alternatives - eg to FRA etc.
However, just much do these benefits add up to. It seems strange to have one foreign company dictate tax policy to the chancellor, but it won't be the first time that has happened.
Yet aviation as a whole remains a net exporter of cash from the UK. Granted, that has to be put in the context that our climate makes foreign holidays much more attractive, but if we start seeing new routes to Florida, Mexico, the Caribbean etc from BFS, that cannot be good.
Meanwhile, if there is one sector of the market which must surely benefit the economy, it is the UK domestic flights! And they are still taxed twice.
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Danny R - saying people heading down to MCO / SFB would help the economy because of spending at the airport is tenous.
Most income at regional airports is generated from the presence of holiday flights out of the UK, when there are tens of thousands of pounds being spent in airport terminals every day it certainly is not insignificant. The passengers using those flights are supporting our economy regardless, their presence also means job creation, which brings me onto the fact you also need to take into consideration the wider economic impact of such flights on the local area, e.g. for hotels, travel agents etc. Just look at how areas surrounding some regional airports have been transformed over the past decade and tell me those holiday flights did not have any economic impact!
Like it or not domestic flights are no longer viable on many routes on the mainland due to improving rail links, also the Government will not support domestic flights either due to the greenies being highly against domestic air travel. International flights are the only option for economic growth and should be embraced.
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Most income at regional airports is generated from the presence of holiday flights out of the UK, when there are tens of thousands of pounds being spent in airport terminals every day
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Looks like more UK regional Airports and Airlines have now been added to this letter been sent to chancellor George Osborne about not been happy with the deal that that's done with Belfast regarding dropping ADP on there New York route.
See below: Regional aviation players demands fair APD reduction | News | Travel Trade Gazette
See below: Regional aviation players demands fair APD reduction | News | Travel Trade Gazette
Regional aviation players demands fair APD reduction
A regional airport chief executive has suggested that the reduction of APD in Northern Ireland could possibly be illegal under EU State Aid Regulations.
Dave Laws, chief executive of Newcastle Airport said: “Any differentiation based upon geographical criteria, which appears to be the case with the Northern Ireland proposal, would be unfair and possibly illegal under EU State Aid Regulations.”
Laws added: A much fairer, and probably legal, approach would be to give all regional airports a stimulus by varying the rate of APD between congested and non-congested airports, thereby protecting the interests of all disadvantaged regions.”
His comments come after 12 regional airports and airlines have written to the chancellor George Osborne demanding a reduction in APD in the regions.
The group argues that the tax should be reduced on all flights from UK airports outside of London.
In the letter, the group says: “Regional airports and airlines have a lower percentage of business travellers or inbound tourists than the London airports, and have been hit hard by economic downturn. That’s not just bad news for our businesses. It’s bad for jobs, bad for inward investment and bad for wealth creation in the UK regions. If the government is serious about truly rebalancing the economy, then decisive action is needed on behalf of the 86 million passengers that fly from our airports.”
The joint letter is signed by Birmingham Airport; Bristol Airport; Exeter Airport; Flybe; Glasgow Prestwick; Jet2.com; Leeds Bradford Airport; Loganair; Manchester Airports Group (Manchester, East Midlands, Bournemouth and Humberside Airports); Manston International Airport; Newcastle International Airport and Newquay Airport.
A regional airport chief executive has suggested that the reduction of APD in Northern Ireland could possibly be illegal under EU State Aid Regulations.
Dave Laws, chief executive of Newcastle Airport said: “Any differentiation based upon geographical criteria, which appears to be the case with the Northern Ireland proposal, would be unfair and possibly illegal under EU State Aid Regulations.”
Laws added: A much fairer, and probably legal, approach would be to give all regional airports a stimulus by varying the rate of APD between congested and non-congested airports, thereby protecting the interests of all disadvantaged regions.”
His comments come after 12 regional airports and airlines have written to the chancellor George Osborne demanding a reduction in APD in the regions.
The group argues that the tax should be reduced on all flights from UK airports outside of London.
In the letter, the group says: “Regional airports and airlines have a lower percentage of business travellers or inbound tourists than the London airports, and have been hit hard by economic downturn. That’s not just bad news for our businesses. It’s bad for jobs, bad for inward investment and bad for wealth creation in the UK regions. If the government is serious about truly rebalancing the economy, then decisive action is needed on behalf of the 86 million passengers that fly from our airports.”
The joint letter is signed by Birmingham Airport; Bristol Airport; Exeter Airport; Flybe; Glasgow Prestwick; Jet2.com; Leeds Bradford Airport; Loganair; Manchester Airports Group (Manchester, East Midlands, Bournemouth and Humberside Airports); Manston International Airport; Newcastle International Airport and Newquay Airport.