Will Lufthansa sell BMI?
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Will Lufthansa sell BMI?
Given the recent news that BA once again is interested in the possible purchase of BMI .... who thinks Lufthansa will sell??
" (Reuters) - IAG, the parent of British Airways and Iberia, is interested in buying UK carrier bmi if Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) decides to sell, Chief Executive Wille Walsh said on Monday.
IAG has renewed its interest in the UK carrier because of its slots at Heathrow, which faces constraints on capacity.
"I have said we are interested; it is really a decision for Lufthansa," Walsh said on the sidelines of an IATA airlines conference in Singapore.
Walsh said the newly formed IAG airlines holding company, which has expressed interest in expanding to include other airlines, was not currently looking at any other targets.
Walsh also said IAG was keen to pursue a joint-venture with alliance partner JAL (JALFQ.PK) and praised the Japanese carrier's record in recovereing from the March earthquake.
Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) recently received anti-trust approval for a similar revenue-sharing joint venture with All Nippon Airways (9202.T).
" (Reuters) - IAG, the parent of British Airways and Iberia, is interested in buying UK carrier bmi if Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) decides to sell, Chief Executive Wille Walsh said on Monday.
IAG has renewed its interest in the UK carrier because of its slots at Heathrow, which faces constraints on capacity.
"I have said we are interested; it is really a decision for Lufthansa," Walsh said on the sidelines of an IATA airlines conference in Singapore.
Walsh said the newly formed IAG airlines holding company, which has expressed interest in expanding to include other airlines, was not currently looking at any other targets.
Walsh also said IAG was keen to pursue a joint-venture with alliance partner JAL (JALFQ.PK) and praised the Japanese carrier's record in recovereing from the March earthquake.
Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) recently received anti-trust approval for a similar revenue-sharing joint venture with All Nippon Airways (9202.T).
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I think LH will certainly look closely at it. BMI is still making massive losses (150m euros in 2010). Given the recent announcement that LH Italia would close I think shows the hard line view of the new CEO when it comes to loss making subsidies. We'll see...
What is there to stop LH dropping a few of BMI's worst-performing routes, selling some LHR slots, and moving spare aircraft to German, Austrian, Belgian or Swiss hubs ?
If LHR-GLA can be chopped, is anything really safe ?
If LHR-GLA can be chopped, is anything really safe ?
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 6th Jun 2011 at 20:58. Reason: Forgot about Austrian
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As JSCL makes point of much of it is about monopolies in UK these days, the Morrison's buying out of Safeway's supermarkets springs to mind!
Howevever the UK Government have been exposed as being less than honourable in their favouring of the world's (supposed) favourite airline in the past, the name 'Sir Freddie Laker' springs to mind whereas telephone lines between 10 Downing Street and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue became occupied in favour of the world's (supposed) favourite airline!
Howevever the UK Government have been exposed as being less than honourable in their favouring of the world's (supposed) favourite airline in the past, the name 'Sir Freddie Laker' springs to mind whereas telephone lines between 10 Downing Street and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue became occupied in favour of the world's (supposed) favourite airline!
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Doubt they will. The UK probably won't allow the sale to ensure there's no Market dominance and to keep a competitive route Market.
The ex BMED routes were operated for BA anyway and there are no city pairs to Western Europe that BMI compete on that lack competition from someone at LHR I think. It WOULD be an excellent commercial deal for BA I think, Branson would squeal again but he has failed to keep up with the world around him.
( he hasn't joined a cartel, *cough* I mean an Alliance !!)
Cutting some of the duplication would I am sure see growth in both short and long haul options at LHR for BA, a win win. Also nothing in this prevents London having an excellent STAR focus in the new T2.
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Why would Lufthansa want to give BA a win-win?
It is unlikely that Lufthansa would want to sell the slots to anyone outside of Star Alliance.
In the unlikely event of BA buying bmi there would be >3,000 staff on the street in very short order.
It is unlikely that Lufthansa would want to sell the slots to anyone outside of Star Alliance.
In the unlikely event of BA buying bmi there would be >3,000 staff on the street in very short order.
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If BA were to buy BMI under the tupe rules they wouldnt be allowed to buy an ongoing concern and then lay everyone off, unless they kept it as a completely separate company. BA is also in a recruitment phase. The crews fit BA and are already trained on their fleet type. It would not be very cost effective to make staff redundant then to recruit or at least look at these same staff members for a position at BA. It could also be argued that it was not a true redundancy and therefore subject to unfair dismissal. I am not saying they wouldn't win but it seems like an unnesasary waste of resource and money.
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I think BA would buy if bmi were for sale, yes there would be anti trust issues that would mean releasing of slots and so on, bit in my view it's very unlikely anyway.
From LH point of view it has no pressing need to sell and whilst disposing of bmi would boost LH group profits only by removing the losses racked up by the bmi group,losses which are trending down after taking into account various one off events. The bmi group exposure to mid east and African markets is hurting at present but these routes offer tremendous upside opportunities when things settle down, London to Tripoli could be a gold mine in a years time.
The general view seems to be that bmi regional is marginally profitable baby marginally loss making with the bulk of group losses still coming out of bmi mainline,but its worth remembering that much of bmi heavy maintenance is done by LH tech now, baby 737 c check program alone will be over 10m Euro to LH
Like the baby Monarch rumour and the regional SN rumour I think this will come to nothing
From LH point of view it has no pressing need to sell and whilst disposing of bmi would boost LH group profits only by removing the losses racked up by the bmi group,losses which are trending down after taking into account various one off events. The bmi group exposure to mid east and African markets is hurting at present but these routes offer tremendous upside opportunities when things settle down, London to Tripoli could be a gold mine in a years time.
The general view seems to be that bmi regional is marginally profitable baby marginally loss making with the bulk of group losses still coming out of bmi mainline,but its worth remembering that much of bmi heavy maintenance is done by LH tech now, baby 737 c check program alone will be over 10m Euro to LH
Like the baby Monarch rumour and the regional SN rumour I think this will come to nothing
Well, if ba did acquire British Midland, with any luck the Lufthansa flights 'operated by British Midland' (e.g. some of the LHR-CGN and BHX-FRA flights) would become Lufthansa-operated again....
If they became ba-operated, it'd mean me trying to find other suitable business flights as I simply will not fly with ba.
If they became ba-operated, it'd mean me trying to find other suitable business flights as I simply will not fly with ba.
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Given that bmi account for 27.75% of operating losses for the whole Lufthansa group (and 37.58% of EBITDA losses), I wouldn't be too surprised if Lufthansa would be happy to offload the bmi group on to a suitable buyer.
I wouldn't expect BA to be a suitable buyer in DLH shareholder's eyes though.
Inkjet, losses increased by 40% against the previous year, even the EBITDA losses increased by nearly 30%. Even taking one off expenses out of the equation, losses are not trending in a positive direction.
I wouldn't expect BA to be a suitable buyer in DLH shareholder's eyes though.
Inkjet, losses increased by 40% against the previous year, even the EBITDA losses increased by nearly 30%. Even taking one off expenses out of the equation, losses are not trending in a positive direction.
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Hello.
It seems that there are 2 distincts subjects here. The airline and the slots.
It seems that the airline value has decreased a lot lately however the value of the slots at LHR remain.
So the purchase of BMI by Lufthansa may not be that bad in the sense they have sold 5% share of the slots which are gold dust to her alliance partners (BMI down from 15% to 10% of the slots)
So will Lufthansa want to sell BMI or simply close it slowly by carry on selling the slots?
It seems that there are 2 distincts subjects here. The airline and the slots.
It seems that the airline value has decreased a lot lately however the value of the slots at LHR remain.
So the purchase of BMI by Lufthansa may not be that bad in the sense they have sold 5% share of the slots which are gold dust to her alliance partners (BMI down from 15% to 10% of the slots)
So will Lufthansa want to sell BMI or simply close it slowly by carry on selling the slots?
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The BMED routes were not operated for BA. BMED paid a franchise fee to BA to operate the route to BA standards and take advantage of BA marketing
As part of the franchise agreement they lost a degree of independence in choosing routes and paid a fairly hefty franchise fee for the privilege, henc.e to all intents and purposes they were functioning as an extension of British Airways. Then the whole thing went out of fashion when Willie Walsh came on board of course.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 7th Jun 2011 at 14:33.
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Could BMed be booked via the BA website and did BMed use 'Birdseed' callsigns per chance?
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BD's losses are not sustainable. Comparing Q1 of 2010 and 2011:
Q1 2010 Revenue: €196m
Q1 2010 Operating Loss: €45m
Q1 2011 Revenue: €178m
Q1 2011 Operating Loss: €63m
Revenue is falling and operating losses are widening. LH may not want to give BA a competitive advantage in expanding at LHR but can it justify these losses by not doing so?
The only plausible alternative buyers to IAG are Virgin or AFKLM. Virgin has made a lot of noise but has evidently done nothing to get LH interested in some form of deal. AFKLM may want the slots but IAG has a far better chance of making any deal work.
Q1 2010 Revenue: €196m
Q1 2010 Operating Loss: €45m
Q1 2011 Revenue: €178m
Q1 2011 Operating Loss: €63m
Revenue is falling and operating losses are widening. LH may not want to give BA a competitive advantage in expanding at LHR but can it justify these losses by not doing so?
The only plausible alternative buyers to IAG are Virgin or AFKLM. Virgin has made a lot of noise but has evidently done nothing to get LH interested in some form of deal. AFKLM may want the slots but IAG has a far better chance of making any deal work.
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G-AWZK
I think you are looking at Q1 figures? If so on that bases you would sell Austrian and Germanwings
Yes bmi lost 60m of LH 221m of Q1 loss but it's a bit meaning less when set against LH 1bn+ full year result which included 140m loss by bmi.
Bmi continue to have LH full support selling the slots would be self defeating,the bmi group are still paying SMB lease deals that are way over Market rates and the will take a few more years to work through the replacement cycle.
When one looks at what is being done behind the scenes there is no sense that there are moves a foot to dispose of or close down bmi or it's offspring, in fact quite the reverse
Mods time to move this to the bmi thread I think?
Yes bmi lost 60m of LH 221m of Q1 loss but it's a bit meaning less when set against LH 1bn+ full year result which included 140m loss by bmi.
Bmi continue to have LH full support selling the slots would be self defeating,the bmi group are still paying SMB lease deals that are way over Market rates and the will take a few more years to work through the replacement cycle.
When one looks at what is being done behind the scenes there is no sense that there are moves a foot to dispose of or close down bmi or it's offspring, in fact quite the reverse
Mods time to move this to the bmi thread I think?