BELFAST INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - BFS (Aldergrove)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Greater Aldergrove
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Q1W...
From seat 16F it was very obvious that there were four white PAPIs on 07 to be seen. I'm estimating the distance to have been about 5 miles, and the angle to have been about 20 degrees, but as mentioned, those are only estimates (albeit, with some experience behind me due to PPL). A reasonably sharp turn brought us onto final for 07. It was this very approach that caused me to ask the question in the first place...
With Alacrity and Eastern Wiseguy have kindly provided the professional input that I was seeking. If you have any professional comment to add, I'm happy to listen...but please don't tell me what I did or did not see...
From seat 16F it was very obvious that there were four white PAPIs on 07 to be seen. I'm estimating the distance to have been about 5 miles, and the angle to have been about 20 degrees, but as mentioned, those are only estimates (albeit, with some experience behind me due to PPL). A reasonably sharp turn brought us onto final for 07. It was this very approach that caused me to ask the question in the first place...
With Alacrity and Eastern Wiseguy have kindly provided the professional input that I was seeking. If you have any professional comment to add, I'm happy to listen...but please don't tell me what I did or did not see...
Join Date: Jun 2009
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This does not sound like the npa for vor 07. You describe a 20 degree intercept with a sharp turn to establish on the final approach course at 5 miles. That would not have been the procedure and was more like a visual approach.
As I said not a very stable approach with 4 whites at 5 miles
not much latitude there as you put it.
As I said not a very stable approach with 4 whites at 5 miles
not much latitude there as you put it.
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Dontdoit,
Fair point...wrong terminology...to me it appeared that we were flying a track of about 050...and making to intercept the extended 07 centreline somwhere to the west of the field...
Hopefully that makes sense!
Fair point...wrong terminology...to me it appeared that we were flying a track of about 050...and making to intercept the extended 07 centreline somwhere to the west of the field...
Hopefully that makes sense!
Join Date: Jul 2009
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It definitely sounds like a visual approach. Its been CAVOK up here at LDY for the past few days, so Im guessing BFS may be enjoying the same conditions so the CO guys probably took the visual procedure for practice or whatever.
Or maybe the PAPIs were just broke that morning lol
Or maybe the PAPIs were just broke that morning lol
Join Date: Apr 2002
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No, unfortunately it doesn't make any sense; tracking 050 you will only intercept even a 1 mile final for that runway if you start off SOUTH of the extended centerline. 5 miles WEST of the airfield puts you NORTH of the 07 centerline and would require a right turn to intercept, followed by a left turn to roll out on final.
Just to clear something else up, for "with alacrity" the approach is not "flown manually until visual reference"...if we did that we could only descend to the circling minima, we fly it (or any other non-precision approach) fully coupled which gives us the luxury of coming lower to the appropriate MDA. [Warning, double negative coming up!] It's not unusual on a non-precision approach to pop out of the clouds and NOT see 2 whites/2 reds like we do every time on the ILS, the reason we get paid a lot of money is then to convert that to crossing the threshold at about 50 feet and tracking the runway centerline.
Just to clear something else up, for "with alacrity" the approach is not "flown manually until visual reference"...if we did that we could only descend to the circling minima, we fly it (or any other non-precision approach) fully coupled which gives us the luxury of coming lower to the appropriate MDA. [Warning, double negative coming up!] It's not unusual on a non-precision approach to pop out of the clouds and NOT see 2 whites/2 reds like we do every time on the ILS, the reason we get paid a lot of money is then to convert that to crossing the threshold at about 50 feet and tracking the runway centerline.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Seems like we're caught up with semantics here guys to no benefit.
'To the west' is sufficent for most folks although it would be actually SW if being exact.
The next thing to be discussed will be 'was it track or heading' and would it show all 'whites due to the pitch angle and seat position'.
Get a life and move on!
'To the west' is sufficent for most folks although it would be actually SW if being exact.
The next thing to be discussed will be 'was it track or heading' and would it show all 'whites due to the pitch angle and seat position'.
Get a life and move on!
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Gate it is obvious that some people revel in trivia, this is another trivial issue that has run long enough. What exactly has it to do with Aldergrove? If it must be discussed put it somewhere else or perhaps, due to the lack of relevant information, there is sod all else to talk about of interest.
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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South Antrim MP William McCrea, who attended the meeting, confirmed that the comments were made in response to a question and added his voice to calls for a public inquiry into the controversial planning application.
“His response to the issue was that he believed that the Environment Minister would be coming to a determination very soon and that could be within days,” he said. But the MLA cautioned that the decision may not be published immediately.
Mr McCrea also pressed for a public inquiry, insisting that a regional aviation strategy is needed before such a decision can be made.
“There are so many issues involved in this that we would need a public inquiry . Without a proper aviation strategy I believe that to take a decision for the Belfast City airport extension would be taking it piecemeal — we need a strategy for this region,” he said.
“His response to the issue was that he believed that the Environment Minister would be coming to a determination very soon and that could be within days,” he said. But the MLA cautioned that the decision may not be published immediately.
Mr McCrea also pressed for a public inquiry, insisting that a regional aviation strategy is needed before such a decision can be made.
“There are so many issues involved in this that we would need a public inquiry . Without a proper aviation strategy I believe that to take a decision for the Belfast City airport extension would be taking it piecemeal — we need a strategy for this region,” he said.
Well this is the first time that I have heard the MP in which BFS is located actually stand up and defend it. There must be a very small minority in the political world who would support the decision of approval. It will be interesting to see what Mr Poots comes out with. If he approves I wonder what conditions will he attach? a cap enforcement?
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Ok, I agree with Torque 2 that this approach topic has ran its course. No offence to NWSRG but they are temporarily unsure of their position or are having a laugh, but this has resulted in everyone throwing in their view whether it be right or wrong.
Dontdo it is spot on you cant be west of the field on a track of 050 to intercept and we most certainly do not fly npa's 'manually' as he rightly corrected alacrity.
Unless Boeing have changed the seat layout since, 16F is on the right side of the aircraft which means you were south of the field to enable you to see the lights on a track of 050.
Finally this has everything to do with Aldergrove, after all it was an approach into it!
Dontdo it is spot on you cant be west of the field on a track of 050 to intercept and we most certainly do not fly npa's 'manually' as he rightly corrected alacrity.
Unless Boeing have changed the seat layout since, 16F is on the right side of the aircraft which means you were south of the field to enable you to see the lights on a track of 050.
Finally this has everything to do with Aldergrove, after all it was an approach into it!
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Unless Boeing have changed the seat layout since, 16F is on the right side of the aircraft which means you were south of the field to enable you to see the lights on a track of 050.
EW OUT.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Mine too. As we determined it was a visual approach if you think that because the aircraft comes from "the west" it joins from that position ...you are very sadly mistaken. It joins from a direction I tell it to.....end of.
q1 out.
q1 out.
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The baby fights on - winter flights out
Seems to be an increased service to BHX on last winter.
EMA still battling on with 2 per day against FR.
CWL back daily ex SAT - strange.
Seems to be an increased service to BHX on last winter.
EMA still battling on with 2 per day against FR.
CWL back daily ex SAT - strange.
if successful then they will expand
Join Date: Apr 2009
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BHD versus BFS
Ever since the Belfast Airports forum split up it just hasn't been the same.
No fights over who is the real Belfast airport, no useless speculation about how BFS is set to fail and BHD takeover, or how EZY are moving to BHD and FR moving to BFS.
And look at how few posts there are now. Days go by without a post on either forum.
Can't you guys kiss and make up? Admit you's aren't happy with the breakup and get the moderators to merge the three forums!
No fights over who is the real Belfast airport, no useless speculation about how BFS is set to fail and BHD takeover, or how EZY are moving to BHD and FR moving to BFS.
And look at how few posts there are now. Days go by without a post on either forum.
Can't you guys kiss and make up? Admit you's aren't happy with the breakup and get the moderators to merge the three forums!