BELFAST INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - BFS (Aldergrove)

[gate 22]

Fights from DUB go via LGW. BA code share on LGW route with EI. Aer Lingus operate the LGW leg and the BA operate the Orlando leg. This is from American Hoildays in Jun 2011

So its cheaper to fly EI to LGW then VS to Orlando, rather than EI direct from Dublin. The EI/BA leg to LGW is feeding passengers off EI direct and BA to Orlando - strange.

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus only fly from DUB 3 weekly and from October there is going to Business Class on the route so there will be 24 less seats in Economy.

I think most people pay the bit extra to fly direct from DUB insted of going by LGW.

During peak season EI carry between 6500 - 8000 on the route.

[eastern wiseguy]

I am not entirely certain it WOULD be cheaper to fly from ANY UK airport. The tax is astronomical. CO from BFS NEED the impetus of competition on the transatlantic route. I know that I always seem find EIN cheaper to the US midwest.

[tigger2k8]

Aaron, yes the flight is for the rangers team

[dwlpl]

Flight EZE1666 from Glasgow coming in to Belfast at 11 20. Anyone know what its doing here.... is it picking up linfield for their match against rangers??

Rangers are playing Glentoran tonight in Belfast.

[clareview]

American Holidays web site seems to show Continental from BFS to MCO via EWR

[Aaron9890]

My friend works for Thomson and said to me earlier today that they are considering starting a route from BFS to Orlando

[clareview]

what do you mean STARTING? Thomson's predecessors flew the BFS-SFB route in the past

[aidoair]

Well he clearly means that they are planning on operating a flight to SFB. Don't think he said brand new route?

[Jamie2k9]

IS there any reason why TCX are dropping the route. What were passenger levels on the route. Was it cheeper for people to goe via LGW with Virgin insted of geoing direct from BFS.

[Aaron9890]

thats what i meant sorry... starting them again

[clareview]

BFS -SFB

The are probably dropping it due to poor numbers but as I said elsewhere, it was a short season poorly advertised - even a couple of agents I spoke to had to check that the service existed.

Shame really has a few years ago there was one long season service, one normal season service plus a few extra peak flights. Seems people prefer the flexible dates the scheduled alternatives off even if that means a 2 flight journey or the 90 minute drive to Dublin.

[tigger2k8]

hmmm, im not so sure if it was anything to do with passenger numbers as far as i know the flights where picking up a lot of passengers at BFS, but perhaps the price they were paying... maybe the extra fuel required for the stop at BFS was hitting their profits and since they know people will travel to DUB it seems the more sensible option?

i really cant see SFB not being served by someone from next year again, even if its only high season flights.. hopefully by next year the aviation industry will be back on its feet again

[BFS101]

maybe the extra fuel required for the stop at BFS was hitting their profits and since they know people will travel to DUB it seems the more sensible option?

Though the Thomas Cook Group don't offer Florida packages from DUB, so then they are basically giving up and offering these passengers to their competition on a plate.

As my contact had stated, Thomas Cook priced themselves out of the Florida market, with the travel trade selling BE and VS from Gatwick (American Holidays), over the direct flights as in most cases it was cheaper, and most holidaymakers perceived VS to be a more superior airline!

hopefully by next year the aviation industry will be back on its feet again

Well as the rest of the UK shows some green shoots of recovery, NI is still very much lagging behind. With continued economic depression and gloomy outlook in this part of the country, and disposable incomes therefore more limited, I'd reckon it'll be a few years yet before people are confident to be taking as many holidays and breaks as they were pre recession.

[Torque2]

Oh do get a grip! The economics of the situation are the essentials. TCX haven't 'priced themselves out of the market'. If there is not a reasonable profit to be made on the route for whatever pecuniary reason then whoever decides to pick up on it will either have to reduce their margins or take a loss on the route (or finance it in a totally different way a la Ryanair). In the current climate that would be stupid. No matter what you personally think, unless you can assess the actual cost and profit of a route, speculation is pointless. It has been pointed out previously and correctly that the travel industry is not operated for the benefit of the Northern Ireland traveller but to make a profit. The benefits are secondary and only happen when profits are made thus sustaining any route.

[BFS101]

that the travel industry is not operated for the benefit of the Northern Ireland traveller but to make a profit.

Totally agree with that. Utimately all routes, charter or scheduled, need to be sustainable for the operator.

TCX haven't 'priced themselves out of the market'. If there is not a reasonable profit to be made on the route for whatever pecuniary reason then whoever decides to pick up on it will either have to reduce their margins or take a loss on the route

Again I agree. Though share with us these economics! So do Thomas Cook have such high overheads, or very rigid pricing, or other such reason, that they can't make an adequate profit from Belfast? If it can work out cheaper time and again to utilise BE and VS via Gatwick (or other options, CO via EWR, EI), then why are TCX not being able to compete on price from BFS? Why for years has BFS had Florida flights, on many occasions more than one flight per week? Has demand really collapsed that much?? FlyGlobespan collapsed leaving very little competition direct from BFS, and yet still Thomas Cook find it unprofitable, or not profitable enough, to continue to offer a Florida program.

Demand apparently prompted FlyGlobespan to operate year round from BFS, twice weekly in the summer. Prompted season long TCX in the past with extra frequencies over June / July. And yet for summer 2011 TCX feel they can not make an adequate profit on Florida from Belfast at all???? While CO may have taken some passengers, EI some, and VS, is there not a market for those who want the convenience of flying direct, but who still aren't prepared to pay substancially more than the indirect route competition.

I realise the recession has hit hard across the UK and Ireland, but for demand to have existed to allow multiple flights for years upon years to Canada and Florida, to suddenly now have zero!! Zoom must have seen potential from Belfast, to add more and more capacity, but then Zoom as a whole met a sticky end. There has always been an element of leakage to DUB, but what on earth has happened to get to this stage??

[JonnyBfs]

Transatlantic Summer '11

I totally agree with yoy BFS101!
I travelled numerous times on direct Toronto services and now it is necessary to travel to Dublin (Which i can't be bothered with) or to go to the mainland.

Hopefully some airline will pick up on BFS for July 2011.

[Torque2]

You've mostly answered your questions yourself and it really points out how much hearsay and tittle-tattle plays in a lot of posters lives on this forum.
There is no Globespan, there is no Skyservice, there is no Zoom. There has been no uptake previously by any of the other charter operators because of the small profitability on the routes.
When you come up with your next theory of how to make a profitable route out of thin air please share your business plan so that all may benefit. I'm sure that if people pledged to pay whatever it costs then that would make a difference.

Take into account hurricanes, volcanic ash, european recompense legislation which would require you to pay out more than the original cost of the holiday, factor in as yet undefined tax costs per airframe per trip and finally the unwillingness of the travelling public to pay any realistic price in these difficult times. Postulate the ramblings of your mate in factual manner and then come up with the usual bull that is too apparent here.

Yes it is a rumour forum but so far the rumours are speculous daydreams made from gossip.

When Virgin et al actually sign up transatlantic from BFS and the route lasts for more than a couple of introductory seasons then I'll review the above.
Its more likely that Ryanair will start their first transatlantic route from BFS.

[BFS101]

But when an airlines enters the Belfast market, potentially for an initial trial period, but to then continue to add capacity, surely this shows a sustainable demand in the opinion of that company. In my view an airline will not add more capacity to an airport that they feel will be loss making, or where sustainable demand does not exist. Zoom added destinations, capacity and year round operations, as did FlyGlobespan and other also in the past. For this point I believe a Belfast operation has to be looked at seperately from the overall company going bust. As we are unaware of the specifics, for all we know BFS could've been holding its own in regard to the aformentioned carriers.

If each of these individual companies recognised this alleged sustainable demand from BFS, then what has changed?? And while NI may have faired worse than the rest of the UK in the recession; while are mainland counterparts continue to receive transatlantic charters, BFS is the one that has gone from potentially too much capacity in the past, but now to none at all. Businesses wont want to take risks in this current climate, but I believe that some of these risks could pay off, if only they were given a chance.

[gate 22]

Yes it is a rumour forum but so far the rumours are speculous daydreams made from gossip.

I think that the evidence from past years 1969-2009 has proven that there is a very strong link between Canada and NI, even during the worst of the troubles. From the 80's 2 maybe 3 operators operating to Toronto. I think that during that time the carriers were making a profit as it was not a charitable service. Indeed BFS/Toronto carried more than BHX/Toronto on a number of years. This year there were flights Toronto/Exeter if my memory serves me well. I would certainly ask the question as to why there were no operators BFS/Canada during 2010? The only excuse is the recession. Indeed Fly Glopespan/Zoom etc quit not because of BFS but due to the airlines folding.
A daydream would be to imagine Virgin to set up a base at BFS with 25 US destinations served, however a summer flight program to Sanford or Toronto is well within expectations.