British Airways heading for a £1bn loss- a record amount?
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It's about time Ryanair took over BA and turned it into a profit making machine
Sure efficiencies need to be made. I for one am dead against the proposed CC strike and do believe they need to be fair and do their bit. I know it is doubtful that premier travel will return to the levels of previous years, but it will start climbing.
Simple measures need to be taken to ensure the airline doesn't enter a downward spiral; cabin crew is just a small part of that. Management structure needs to be altered. More efficient aircraft need to be used. Unprofitable routes need to be scrapped/reduced for example.
The matter of the regions still seems to be sour point with a lot of people. The fact is if there were still a base at every major airport in the country, BA would be in much worse shape now. The market out of BHX/MAN/Scotland is primarily for LCCs. Save the odd F70 to AMS, a 757 to EWR and a A330 to DXB (airlines which are doing exactly the same as BA: Flying to their hub for you to make connections), premier traffic is limited. BA is not an LCC; their business model (rightly or wrongly) does not work for these sort of services.
So lets not write BA off quite yet. Give it time, the changes will happen.
FR will have its day where it makes a loss, plus I can't think of anyone who has their head further up their ass than MOL.
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old-fashioned union-dominated working practices were not challenged
Ever walked around Waterworld and seen the number of useless, recently graduated MBA clowns there are doing absolutely nothing ?
I will name some of the idiots that have run the airline starting with number 1 Robert Ayling
Ex cargo Clown
You are probably right.. in fact.. having met some of them . you are right!
but
how many of them are there ? ( do you know.?)
Are there several thousand?
( I have no idea .. do you?)
What I do think is that lots of "senior" managers, who were on very high salaries, many of whom also had a lot of experience, have left and been replaced, in the main, with younger , less experienced ( and possibly lower cost?) MBA's, who know lots of theory, but with little experience.
But are the costs of "manning " Waterworld going up, or down?
I have no idea.
However :
The fact that there are lots of "MBA clowns" at Waterworld in no way detracts from the statement :
"old-fashioned union-dominated working practices were not challenged "
Both need attention and changing .
You are probably right.. in fact.. having met some of them . you are right!
but
how many of them are there ? ( do you know.?)
Are there several thousand?
( I have no idea .. do you?)
What I do think is that lots of "senior" managers, who were on very high salaries, many of whom also had a lot of experience, have left and been replaced, in the main, with younger , less experienced ( and possibly lower cost?) MBA's, who know lots of theory, but with little experience.
But are the costs of "manning " Waterworld going up, or down?
I have no idea.
However :
The fact that there are lots of "MBA clowns" at Waterworld in no way detracts from the statement :
"old-fashioned union-dominated working practices were not challenged "
Both need attention and changing .
"old-fashioned union-dominated working practices were not challenged "
They were, and still are, challenged ad-nauseum in all departments.
Take a good look at BA and what's left of it compared to the dinosaur that was privitised.
The company is a shell of it's former self. Much of what was once done 'in-house' is now farmed out or franchised.
As for the pension 'deficit'.
Again, Bull!
It's an accounting trick.
The actuaries base their findings on a period of time defined by an abitary 3 yearly review. This last review, March 09, was at the low point of the stock market and property crash. Have look at the figures. The markets, and property prices have recovered enormously since. The deficit is closer to £500 Million. The 10 year plan put in place by the company/trustees 2 years ago should be allowed to run and achieve it's goal.
See this article.
Pension fund finances improved sharply in December
Most companies took pension holidays in the '90s because the Government limited the surplus that could be carried in their pension funds. So don't blame that on BA Management. As I said above, they deserve criticism for not confronting arcane working practices in the good years.
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Most companies took pension holidays in the '90s because the Government limited the surplus that could be carried in their pension funds. So don't blame that on BA Management. As I said above, they deserve criticism for not confronting arcane working practices in the good years.
How much are the idiotic management taking in pension funds ?
That prat Ayling, Eddington, even that complete plank Gareth Kirkwood.
Oh and ask about the dodgy dealings with Dunwoodys in the cargo sense, family on the board now I see......
Cargo Clown,
I have a sneaky feeling that you don't like some members of BA Management.
In your very humble opinion, they didn't do their jobs very well. I wonder what you would have done in their place - cosy up to the unions, perhaps? Or turn a blind eye to the over-manning and Spanish practices that were destroying the company?
It's very easy to criticize 'the management', but most armchair critics wouldn't have a clue how to start running a business. As to management pensions - they represent a very small proportion of the total pension liability.
I have a sneaky feeling that you don't like some members of BA Management.
In your very humble opinion, they didn't do their jobs very well. I wonder what you would have done in their place - cosy up to the unions, perhaps? Or turn a blind eye to the over-manning and Spanish practices that were destroying the company?It's very easy to criticize 'the management', but most armchair critics wouldn't have a clue how to start running a business. As to management pensions - they represent a very small proportion of the total pension liability.
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No one want to report on the better than expected results? OK I'll do it:
BBC News - British Airways' £50m loss smaller-than-expected
BBC News - British Airways' £50m loss smaller-than-expected
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No one want to report on the better than expected results?
Ok 'good news' is perhaps a bit too far, bit in terms of the loss they were expecting, its relatively bloody brilliant news. Perhaps things are starting to go the right way and all the radical cost cutting is paying off.
This period covers most of the 'will they won't they strike' period (I wonder how much that cost them), but doesn't cover the snow period over January - so that will put a dent in next quarter's results.
A £50m loss sure is a big drop considering what they were profiting a couple of years back, but by the sounds of things (perhaps they meant to make it sound worse to help drive through cost-cutting measures?) it could have been much, much worse.
Maybe that £1b loss is looking unlikely now eh?
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The £1bn was very much the top of the estimated loss - and would always be the headline figure as it attracts the attention.
I think one thing is certain from now on: all airlines will be operating more efficiently in the future and the crews will be saying goodbye to those £29k average contracts!
I think one thing is certain from now on: all airlines will be operating more efficiently in the future and the crews will be saying goodbye to those £29k average contracts!
The reduced loss is excellent news. Because WW has taken on the unions, beaten some sense into people who were following the militants, cut costs and outsourced services.
It's what you do to survive.
It's called management.
It's what you do to survive.
It's called management.
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The reduced loss is excellent news. Because WW has taken on the unions, beaten some sense into people who were following the militants, cut costs and outsourced services.
It's what you do to survive.
It's called management.
It's what you do to survive.
It's called management.
The next few months will set in stone how he goes down in history, but some of the 'BA will be gone by New Year' brigade may now think that WW has saved the airline...
........British Airways...........is that the really bad pension providor that has some aeroplanes that fly out of London?
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Jerboy
I think your details of MAN are a bit wrong.
AF 6 a day Paris mainly A320 LH to FRA 4 A320 a day KLM 6 B737 a day to AMSLX to ZRH going to 3 A320 a day, DXB nearly 800 pax a day in each direction
plus QTR and ETD another 600 to Middle East. From mid May 4 flights a day to New York plus several other US flights with probably 1500/2000 pax a day
That to me does not show an airport that has only Locost flights
I used to work in business travel and BA always wanted to send pax via London
even if they had to in effect throw the shuttle in free. Many of our pax refused to fly BA because they could get a much better deal from LH/AF/KL on long haul
connection and usually get there quicker avoiding LHR ( I know it is a lot better now
for BA connections )
Ian B
I think your details of MAN are a bit wrong.
AF 6 a day Paris mainly A320 LH to FRA 4 A320 a day KLM 6 B737 a day to AMSLX to ZRH going to 3 A320 a day, DXB nearly 800 pax a day in each direction
plus QTR and ETD another 600 to Middle East. From mid May 4 flights a day to New York plus several other US flights with probably 1500/2000 pax a day
That to me does not show an airport that has only Locost flights
I used to work in business travel and BA always wanted to send pax via London
even if they had to in effect throw the shuttle in free. Many of our pax refused to fly BA because they could get a much better deal from LH/AF/KL on long haul
connection and usually get there quicker avoiding LHR ( I know it is a lot better now
for BA connections )
Ian B
