SAA Crew Arrests at LHR
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Divinehover
Be careful my friend.......
F/Deck guys and be crooked too
Christopher Barrart-Jolly!!!
Check out this alledged "professional" & his brother-in-law out on Google. Interesting characters that I knew of from my days at Coventry.
A man who no regard for anything but himself.
A great but worrying site to see his 707 taking off from 23/ 05
Be careful my friend.......
F/Deck guys and be crooked too
Christopher Barrart-Jolly!!!
Check out this alledged "professional" & his brother-in-law out on Google. Interesting characters that I knew of from my days at Coventry.
A man who no regard for anything but himself.
A great but worrying site to see his 707 taking off from 23/ 05
Last edited by Captain Numpty; 21st Jan 2009 at 10:41.
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divineh...
really - all based on your opinion. The fact is that there HAVE been arrests in the past of CAPTAINS smuggling loot around.. simply because they are seen as the less likely suspects - as you rightly pointed out.
Just saying you can't rule them out - IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE of them OR anyone else.
really - all based on your opinion. The fact is that there HAVE been arrests in the past of CAPTAINS smuggling loot around.. simply because they are seen as the less likely suspects - as you rightly pointed out.
Just saying you can't rule them out - IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE of them OR anyone else.
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Another great advertisement for the Rainbow Nation , especially with a pending world cup . OK so a few possibilities.
1) the crew ( some or all) guilty as sin
2) the stuff is planted due to poor security in JNB .
Believe me the world needs to wake up to the crime in this Country and the more press about this the better. I have heard many horrific stories from my SAFFER mates here about life over there. Nice people , bad government !)
1) the crew ( some or all) guilty as sin
2) the stuff is planted due to poor security in JNB .
Believe me the world needs to wake up to the crime in this Country and the more press about this the better. I have heard many horrific stories from my SAFFER mates here about life over there. Nice people , bad government !)
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Why would they be planted??
If you understand the system at LHR, then the suggestion of the bag being planted is ludicrous. The crew collect their bags at the aircraft and a bus takes them WITH THEIR BAGS to customs. If customs are in a good mood - no search. If they decide to check, then simply deny that the unmarked bags belong to you. That is why I suspect they were held for so long. The customs officers were trying to establish ownership.
By planting the drugs - as suggested - who benefits? There has to be a recipient or at least a courier. One (or more ) crew members are guilty and have covered their tracks. This has been done before. The culture of criminality is so pervasive in SA and begins with our politicians - who have set the example.
By planting the drugs - as suggested - who benefits? There has to be a recipient or at least a courier. One (or more ) crew members are guilty and have covered their tracks. This has been done before. The culture of criminality is so pervasive in SA and begins with our politicians - who have set the example.
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The HMRC expression for using innocent bags to carry contraband is known as "Rip On Rip Off". It involves the smuggler covertly marking such bags with the sort of pen Crime Prevention Officers used to hand out to households to mark valuables with your postcode. The use of an ultraviolet light on such bags is all the end contact needs to achieve this. Next time you pass the baggage handler's locker room have a wander in and find the "spare" locker not assigned to anyone. It's in there.
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I thought there was a single bag weight limit. For 3 bags with 37lb of drugs in each they would have been VERY HEAVY.
Why the nes and then no charges? Personal use?
Why the nes and then no charges? Personal use?
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I'm worried about the previous post suggesting CC are unprofessional!
Low paid - possibly (Likely at SAA?)
Unprofessional - I hope not, and recent events indicate that CC are as professional in their own field as anyone.
Unprofessional by definition - if they are smuggling, yes, but that applies equally at both ends of the aircraft.
As regards bag weight - once it's been checked, who cares? If the baggage handlers are in the criminal loop they are unlikely to sue under H&S? But presumably the bag then has to be stolen or emptied on arrival before the crew get their hands on it?
Sven
Low paid - possibly (Likely at SAA?)
Unprofessional - I hope not, and recent events indicate that CC are as professional in their own field as anyone.
Unprofessional by definition - if they are smuggling, yes, but that applies equally at both ends of the aircraft.
As regards bag weight - once it's been checked, who cares? If the baggage handlers are in the criminal loop they are unlikely to sue under H&S? But presumably the bag then has to be stolen or emptied on arrival before the crew get their hands on it?
Sven
It looks to me that Customs tipped their hand by asking each crew member to identify his or her bags.
Things got curiouser when three bags went unclaimed
Possibly one or more crew felt it wiser to deny ownership
Possibly the wrong ramp crew didn't know to leave the three bags in the a/c for subsequent discreet pickup
Things got curiouser when three bags went unclaimed
Possibly one or more crew felt it wiser to deny ownership
Possibly the wrong ramp crew didn't know to leave the three bags in the a/c for subsequent discreet pickup
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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It is also possible that the three bags were not owned by the crew, had been put into the crew bag container deliberately, knowing they would be loaded into the back of the crew coach at airside, assuming no rummage by customs then the coach delivers crew plus bags to hotel and, if asked about the three remaining bags, driver says, "They belong to another crew I'm just going to drop them at their hotel, the bags were delayed".
Oh what fun, the theories and the theories and the theories!
Just remembered, some years ago an Air France B747 FO, one of the highest paid in the world at that time with great tax concessions got caught smuggling drugs!
Oh what fun, the theories and the theories and the theories!
Just remembered, some years ago an Air France B747 FO, one of the highest paid in the world at that time with great tax concessions got caught smuggling drugs!
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Crew Bags
In response to Parabellum. The crew themselves have to load their own bags onto the bus. If the bag does not belong to you, then it remains behind - could have been a passenger bag incorrectly loaded. By loading the bag on the bus, you claim it to belong to you - simple as that
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Can't believe you just wrote that devinehover......
After the events in the Hudson last week you must have b*lls of steel to make that remark!
Low paid, too true.
Unprofessional, what are you talking about. Most of the cc I come across in my day to day are hardworking, diligent and take pride in their work. Unprofessional?
Regardless of that, the person or persons who carried the drugs aboard needs making an example of. Until they identify them, the whole crew are under suspicion. How would you feel if it was one of your crew members?
Good job it was not Singapore they were arriving into !!
After the events in the Hudson last week you must have b*lls of steel to make that remark!
Low paid, too true.
Unprofessional, what are you talking about. Most of the cc I come across in my day to day are hardworking, diligent and take pride in their work. Unprofessional?
Regardless of that, the person or persons who carried the drugs aboard needs making an example of. Until they identify them, the whole crew are under suspicion. How would you feel if it was one of your crew members?
Good job it was not Singapore they were arriving into !!
Rainbow Chaser
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I hope no-one minds my posting, I am only SLF, but am puzzled by some of what is being written so may I please seek clarification on a couple of things?
I am assuming (which may be wrong too) that crew bags are kept separate and handled separately from pax bags.
On departure:
If all crew load their own bags into a baggage container/whatever that is separated at all times from pax bags, does someone establish that there is no other bag already in that container? OR is there some other process by which crew bags are put on board?
If a container is sealed and rendered tamper-proof, is this done in the presence of the crew so that additional bags can't be included? or at this point is the system reliant on the baggage-handlers? If the container isn't sealed then it is clearly fair game for anyone to plant additional bags.
On arrival:
If it is a sealed container, who verifies that the tamper-proof seal hasn't been broken? and, of course, that it is the same seal and not a new one!
If not sealed, again it is fair game for anyone to remove the additional bags... the crew will only claim their bags.
What really is the likelihood that it is the crew and not baggage handlers, for example (or another group with access to the aircraft and crew bags) running drugs in sizeable quantities?
This is the 21st century, baggage handlers all over the world come from all over the world, all have cellphones and laptops... if there can be a ring of office cleaners at LHR who systematically looted Immigration forms and rubber stamps for illegal immigration gangs etc etc and large numbers of aircraft cleaners who were themselves illegals then how hard can it be for baddies to run an international drug cartel through the baggage handling operation. The person that is invisible is the ideal candidate for such an operation, not the highly visible one (who at best might be a decoy!).
Just my 2 cents.
I am assuming (which may be wrong too) that crew bags are kept separate and handled separately from pax bags.
On departure:
If all crew load their own bags into a baggage container/whatever that is separated at all times from pax bags, does someone establish that there is no other bag already in that container? OR is there some other process by which crew bags are put on board?
If a container is sealed and rendered tamper-proof, is this done in the presence of the crew so that additional bags can't be included? or at this point is the system reliant on the baggage-handlers? If the container isn't sealed then it is clearly fair game for anyone to plant additional bags.
On arrival:
If it is a sealed container, who verifies that the tamper-proof seal hasn't been broken? and, of course, that it is the same seal and not a new one!
If not sealed, again it is fair game for anyone to remove the additional bags... the crew will only claim their bags.
What really is the likelihood that it is the crew and not baggage handlers, for example (or another group with access to the aircraft and crew bags) running drugs in sizeable quantities?
This is the 21st century, baggage handlers all over the world come from all over the world, all have cellphones and laptops... if there can be a ring of office cleaners at LHR who systematically looted Immigration forms and rubber stamps for illegal immigration gangs etc etc and large numbers of aircraft cleaners who were themselves illegals then how hard can it be for baddies to run an international drug cartel through the baggage handling operation. The person that is invisible is the ideal candidate for such an operation, not the highly visible one (who at best might be a decoy!).
Just my 2 cents.
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Carry on luggage (pull along) is kept in the cabin. If the security staff at SAA were on the take then it would be easy to get the bags onto the a/c. Crew are searched at random in LHR. So it was luck of the draw if they were going to away with it.
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This article explains a lot about the situation at SAA (and possibly what happened in LHR):
The rapid decline of South African Airways : IMC-SA
The rapid decline of South African Airways : IMC-SA
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Ah yes, I so love the presumption of innocence in British justice.
Wait for the courts to decide, please.
Control of our bags? Are you serious? Once we check them in, who can tell who has access? All we know is that we no longer have them under our control.
Wait for the courts to decide, please.
Control of our bags? Are you serious? Once we check them in, who can tell who has access? All we know is that we no longer have them under our control.
Last edited by mustafagander; 22nd Jan 2009 at 11:17.
As somebody involved in handling baggage at Heathrow (not SAA, and not T1) I might have a few comments and questions.
We have a couple of flights each day from SA, and we all moan about the fact that many of the passenger bags are wrapped (and sealed) in some kind of plastic wrap ... something similar to cling-film, but thicker and more resilient. To be honest, it's a complete nuisance, but reading all the above I can understand why it is used.
It's not all the bags, but most of them, so I assume that it's a passenger decision to have their baggage wrapped-up (or not). Therefore I presume that there is some kind of machine and operator before the baggage check-in desk.
It may not be much of a detterent (sp?), but if you get your baggage wrapped in SA, and when it arrives in London it is not wrapped, then you would expect the passenger to be suspicious.
But, .... I have never seen a crew bag wrapped in the plastic film!
brokenspectre:
Yes and no! it does vary from airline to airline ...
in my experience ...
CC check-in their bags just like a passenger, but there is a special/ separate check-in desk. The cc-bags go through the normal baggage check/scan system, and are then taken to the aircraft. At the aircraft, they are either loaded into the bulk-hold at the back of the aircraft;
or they are loaded into a separate baggage-bin which is used solely for crew-bags;
or they are placed into an existing baggage-bin with other passenger bags (usually the First-Class bin as it has most room).
The crew do certainly not load their bags into the container, and in some instances the bags are left at the back of the aircraft until a suitable baggage-bin arrives (not too clever in the rain!), and the crew are already on-board preparing for the flight.
If loading the cc-bags into the First-Class bin, there will always be some other bags in there; but in any case, there are no 'seals' applied to the baggage bins.
On the other side of the coin ... Arrivals.
If in a separate baggage bin the whole bin is either taken to the baggage belts, or to the waiting coach.
If the cc-bags are in another bin then the whole bin goes to the baggage belt.
If loaded loose into the bulk hold they are either loaded into a trailer and taken to the baggage belts, or left at the back of the aircraft for the crew to pick up themselves or the crew coach driver to collect (varies from airline to airline).
I can see plenty of opportunites for 'error' in any of the above scenarios.
We have a couple of flights each day from SA, and we all moan about the fact that many of the passenger bags are wrapped (and sealed) in some kind of plastic wrap ... something similar to cling-film, but thicker and more resilient. To be honest, it's a complete nuisance, but reading all the above I can understand why it is used.
It's not all the bags, but most of them, so I assume that it's a passenger decision to have their baggage wrapped-up (or not). Therefore I presume that there is some kind of machine and operator before the baggage check-in desk.
It may not be much of a detterent (sp?), but if you get your baggage wrapped in SA, and when it arrives in London it is not wrapped, then you would expect the passenger to be suspicious.
But, .... I have never seen a crew bag wrapped in the plastic film!
brokenspectre:
I am assuming (which may be wrong too) that crew bags are kept separate and handled separately from pax bags.
On departure:
If all crew load their own bags into a baggage container/whatever that is separated at all times from pax bags, does someone establish that there is no other bag already in that container? OR is there some other process by which crew bags are put on board
On departure:
If all crew load their own bags into a baggage container/whatever that is separated at all times from pax bags, does someone establish that there is no other bag already in that container? OR is there some other process by which crew bags are put on board
in my experience ...
CC check-in their bags just like a passenger, but there is a special/ separate check-in desk. The cc-bags go through the normal baggage check/scan system, and are then taken to the aircraft. At the aircraft, they are either loaded into the bulk-hold at the back of the aircraft;
or they are loaded into a separate baggage-bin which is used solely for crew-bags;
or they are placed into an existing baggage-bin with other passenger bags (usually the First-Class bin as it has most room).
The crew do certainly not load their bags into the container, and in some instances the bags are left at the back of the aircraft until a suitable baggage-bin arrives (not too clever in the rain!), and the crew are already on-board preparing for the flight.
If loading the cc-bags into the First-Class bin, there will always be some other bags in there; but in any case, there are no 'seals' applied to the baggage bins.
On the other side of the coin ... Arrivals.
If in a separate baggage bin the whole bin is either taken to the baggage belts, or to the waiting coach.
If the cc-bags are in another bin then the whole bin goes to the baggage belt.
If loaded loose into the bulk hold they are either loaded into a trailer and taken to the baggage belts, or left at the back of the aircraft for the crew to pick up themselves or the crew coach driver to collect (varies from airline to airline).
I can see plenty of opportunites for 'error' in any of the above scenarios.
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On the many flights I have taken it is normal to see the crew collecting their bags off the belt like the SLF do.
Earlier this year at T5 one of my black Delsey cases, very early of the flight, was removed from the belt by, I assume one of the BA crew. (Thanks for that and the delay it cost me!)
Reason given " it had yelllow tie on cardboard label that was similar to crew tags".
From my experience crew bags can easily be identified.
I know in the past there were holes in at least one computer system that allowed "additional" bags to enter the system without the SLF being aware that said bag was tagged to him/her.
It always worrried me that if I was such a victim, to try explaining at the other end...
"This bag (which I have never seen) with a computer ( that never lies) bag tag with my name on does NOT belong to me."
I have seen duplicate airline bag tags produced by computers that are always right.
I hope things are better but who knows
Earlier this year at T5 one of my black Delsey cases, very early of the flight, was removed from the belt by, I assume one of the BA crew. (Thanks for that and the delay it cost me!)
Reason given " it had yelllow tie on cardboard label that was similar to crew tags".
From my experience crew bags can easily be identified.
I know in the past there were holes in at least one computer system that allowed "additional" bags to enter the system without the SLF being aware that said bag was tagged to him/her.
It always worrried me that if I was such a victim, to try explaining at the other end...
"This bag (which I have never seen) with a computer ( that never lies) bag tag with my name on does NOT belong to me."
I have seen duplicate airline bag tags produced by computers that are always right.
I hope things are better but who knows
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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At LHR the scenario I suggest in post #30 would be very easy to replicate, it has actually happened.
Crew have very little control over their own baggage from check-in until arrival, either at the hotel or the baggage belt.
Crew have very little control over their own baggage from check-in until arrival, either at the hotel or the baggage belt.