OXFORD/KIDLINGTON
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Is opening OXF up for commercial routes really for the best? Granted its a feather in the cap for the management/local government for introducing the 'first commercial flights in 20 years', but unless they get continued guaranteed business, it may just prove to be a waste of time/money.
Whichever way you look at it, 10-12 flights over the course of the summer isn't going to cover the cost of setting up security, terminal improvements, runway extensions etc etc.
It doesn't even benefit the Oxford economy either; the pax are all locals going TO Jersey for their holidays. Very few, if any will be Jersey people travelling to Oxford (the aircraft was certainly empty on JER-OXF last week). The airline isn't local either. Therefore all money from the operation is drained into Plymouth or Jersey; especially if (as mentioned above) the route may be subsidised.
Remember what we're seeing in the UK at the moment is a contraction of demand for air travel, and the consolidation of routes to major airports. Very few airlines will be willing to branch out in to new markets in the near future to bring OXF the scheduled service it would need to carry on as a commercial airport.
That said, GLO is coming along succesfully. And if OXF manages to attract Manx2, Blueislands or similar; there may be a future in it.
Whichever way you look at it, 10-12 flights over the course of the summer isn't going to cover the cost of setting up security, terminal improvements, runway extensions etc etc.
It doesn't even benefit the Oxford economy either; the pax are all locals going TO Jersey for their holidays. Very few, if any will be Jersey people travelling to Oxford (the aircraft was certainly empty on JER-OXF last week). The airline isn't local either. Therefore all money from the operation is drained into Plymouth or Jersey; especially if (as mentioned above) the route may be subsidised.
Remember what we're seeing in the UK at the moment is a contraction of demand for air travel, and the consolidation of routes to major airports. Very few airlines will be willing to branch out in to new markets in the near future to bring OXF the scheduled service it would need to carry on as a commercial airport.
That said, GLO is coming along succesfully. And if OXF manages to attract Manx2, Blueislands or similar; there may be a future in it.
Last edited by jerboy; 17th Jul 2009 at 22:33.
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As a passenger I would be more concerned about flying outside Controlled Airspace in an area 'thick' with light aviation on any nice day during a summer weekend!
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I did my training at OAT and we didn't have an ILS up and running? So what's the latest on that?
With the Pipers moved to Goodyear, AZ, there should be no problem with apron space. Just upgrade the bus link from Oxford to the airport rather than once on monday and once on friday.
With the Pipers moved to Goodyear, AZ, there should be no problem with apron space. Just upgrade the bus link from Oxford to the airport rather than once on monday and once on friday.
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I did my training at OAT and we didn't have an ILS up and running? So what's the latest on that?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Hi guys - just a few facts to enlighten the debate!
I'm afraid you are miss-informed: True, the VFR side of OOA has moved to the states but that still leaves a dozen or so PA34 for mixed IFR and VFR training (flying 3 to 5 times a day) coupled with a sizeable clutch of GA & GA training and an increasing fleet of based Biz jets. Just ask the OOA instructors; getting an IFR slot at Oxford is becoming increasingly difficult. Due in the main to App Procedural - radar would provide significant extra capacity.
With its increasing growth in business/commercial traffic Radar is a serious consideration at this time. BTW - Brize work some, not all, of the Oxford traffic within the hours of LARS (7days a week 0900L-1700L!)
Not so - it's the airlines that choose the routes not the airport. And there will be others.....
Absolutely - you'd have to be a fool to run 2 commercial flights a day and have them at the same time thus doubling resources - give management some credit
OR you could look at it the way it actually happened and say some clever person/company saw the potential; had the balls to fund some capital expenditure and provide the upgrades/services upfront and then saw what that attracted.
OR The first flight (the only one before your post jerboy) was one way only (positioning into Oxford). AND, the local population having the choice for the first time in many years to fly from their local airport for a quick week away choose to do so. And let’s not forget its being marketed as Oxford to Jersey and not the other way round
Quote from Jersey Airport - New Air Service from Oxforddated 8th July.
The future:
With up to 5 new phenom based at TK by Christmas.
Quote from ainonline dated 12 May.Oxford Airport steps up investment in London-area bizav gateway: AIN Online
Not much to add to that really. 
All the VFR pilot training side was moved to Arizona so they are dead quiet now, so masses of capacity and no restrictions on commercial traffic like Farnborough or Biggin Hill.
One thing OXF needs to consider is adequate radar coverage. Brize will cover you down to 3000 ft but that's it 'most' of the time. There are many issues with regard to the proximity of other airfields and the large amount of non 'mode c' traffic.
Purely because, other than the Jersey service - which is good news but hardly rocket science and, I suspect being operated at a significant cost to the airport company, it's all pie in the sky.
Additionally, Oxford does not have the terminal or handling facilites to operate more than one aircraft such as a DCH8 at any one time - assuming that a 1319m runway will alow a fully loaded DHC8to operate anywhere (I think not).
Whichever way you look at it, 10-12 flights over the course of the summer isn't going to cover the cost of setting up security, terminal improvements, runway extensions etc etc.
It doesn't even benefit the Oxford economy either; the pax are all locals going TO Jersey for their holidays. Very few, if any will be Jersey people travelling to Oxford (the aircraft was certainly empty on JER-OXF last week).
Quote from Jersey Airport - New Air Service from Oxforddated 8th July.
The summer charter service is being operated by CI Travel Group who offers both inclusive holidays to Jersey as well as flight only. According to the company’s Managing Director, Robert Mackenzie, interest in the service is exceptionally high with the first flight already full. He said, “Demand for this new air route has been very high and already over 70% of seats have been sold.
Oxford Airport, UK will be the new venue for the forthcoming VLJ-Europe 2009 event, the only dedicated conference focused on operations in the entry level and light jet arena. Organised by MIU Events, this year’s event will combine an opportunity to see some of the latest entry level jets
Quote from ainonline dated 12 May.Oxford Airport steps up investment in London-area bizav gateway: AIN Online
“We have seen a 33-percent growth in traffic since the last EBACE show,” said managing director Steve Jones. “We have almost reached our initial goal of 5,000 business aviation movements a year, but there has been a slowdown in the last six months. However, we have still grown by 10 percent at a time when the rest of the UK market is about 25 percent down, and the rest of Europe is about 20 percent.”
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HOLIDAYMAKERS and businessmen could soon be able to fly from Oxford Airport to European cities such as Amsterdam, Paris and Geneva, it emerged last night.
Bosses at the Kidlington-based airport have been in discussion with several operators about starting daily business flights to European capitals, as well as offering further weekly charter flights for tourists.
There has never been a charter flight from Kidlington to mainland Europe in the airport’s 70-year history, but a raft of destinations will be confirmed by the end of the year, with planes expected to fly out in 2010.
James Dillon Godfray, head of marketing and development, said routes being discussed for daily business flights included Geneva, Amsterdam, Paris, Brussels, Dublin, Belfast and Newcastle on weekdays.
Bosses at the Kidlington-based airport have been in discussion with several operators about starting daily business flights to European capitals, as well as offering further weekly charter flights for tourists.
There has never been a charter flight from Kidlington to mainland Europe in the airport’s 70-year history, but a raft of destinations will be confirmed by the end of the year, with planes expected to fly out in 2010.
James Dillon Godfray, head of marketing and development, said routes being discussed for daily business flights included Geneva, Amsterdam, Paris, Brussels, Dublin, Belfast and Newcastle on weekdays.
Oxford Airport ready for take off with new euro holiday destinations (From Oxford Mail)
Looks like it's actually going to happen anyway!
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OR The first flight (the only one before your post jerboy) was one way only (positioning into Oxford). AND, the local population having the choice for the first time in many years to fly from their local airport for a quick week away choose to do so. And let’s not forget its being marketed as Oxford to Jersey and not the other way round
I don't blame people living around Oxford for taking advantage of the service, its just at the moment I can't see it making any financial sense.
Oxford Airport, UK will be the new venue for the forthcoming VLJ-Europe 2009 event, the only dedicated conference focused on operations in the entry level and light jet arena. Organised by MIU Events, this year’s event will combine an opportunity to see some of the latest entry level jets
several operators about starting daily business flights to European capitals
For new business flights small a/c would have to be used (due to the short runway). Fares would therefore have to be pretty high to make such services pay... At the moment its a pretty risky strategy. I think OXF management will have a tough job convincing enough people away from the hour(ish) drive LHR, LTN or BHX and the greater range of destinations and cheaper fares offered there.
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In terms of business aviation yes GLO has a much higher number of movements. But for scheduled operations PLH would by far have a higher number of pax: 2 based aircraft rotating through PLH throughout the day, 50 seats per flight compared to 19... it all adds up.
Its true that business aviation brings in more cash, but wouldn't SHH have pulled the plug on the ASW base and PLH itself a long time ago if it were that unprofitable?
If OXF can model themselves on GLO with the right mix of business aviation to scheduled ops they could do well... But as I mentioned above it is a very niche market that they will have to fight for.
Its true that business aviation brings in more cash, but wouldn't SHH have pulled the plug on the ASW base and PLH itself a long time ago if it were that unprofitable?
If OXF can model themselves on GLO with the right mix of business aviation to scheduled ops they could do well... But as I mentioned above it is a very niche market that they will have to fight for.
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All to do with geography and demographics
Can’t help feeling some people are missing the point here – Oxford’s arguably in a fantastic location, wealthy area (relatively), halfway between Heathrow and Birmingham with a pretty substantial population within an hour’s drive. No competition in fact for an hour or more in any direction.
A handful of flights a week (not 10 a day, more like two or three say?) are easy to handle so long as you have the amenities and the resources – which clearly they do now. They’ve got a mix of GA, some business aviation and now, potentially a couple of commercial flights a day too. If they have about 45,000 movements a year (according to their website - Oxford Airport EGTK/OXF - Annual Movements) that’s about 60 landings a day – for any aircraft types, that’s just nothing compared to what they used to have, used to be thre times that ten years ago.
If you are benchmarking potential against models elsewhere, if you can fill a handful of flights a day out of say Plymouth with Newquay and Exeter down the road, Oxford has absolutely no problem whatsoever doing the same with more people with more money and more businesses on it’s doorstep.
A handful of flights a week (not 10 a day, more like two or three say?) are easy to handle so long as you have the amenities and the resources – which clearly they do now. They’ve got a mix of GA, some business aviation and now, potentially a couple of commercial flights a day too. If they have about 45,000 movements a year (according to their website - Oxford Airport EGTK/OXF - Annual Movements) that’s about 60 landings a day – for any aircraft types, that’s just nothing compared to what they used to have, used to be thre times that ten years ago.
If you are benchmarking potential against models elsewhere, if you can fill a handful of flights a day out of say Plymouth with Newquay and Exeter down the road, Oxford has absolutely no problem whatsoever doing the same with more people with more money and more businesses on it’s doorstep.
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What's the biggest bus you can get into/out of Oxford?
There's 1319m TORA/TODA/ASDA/LDA but 1552m of actual paved runway to play with.
Q400 ought to be no problem, but what about the Embraer family of jets or for that matter the A318, Fokker 70/100, Bombardier CRJ family etc?
Presumably, one could take off pax and/or fuel to get some of the jets using it practically? If so what's max range on some of those jets with full pax?
There's 1319m TORA/TODA/ASDA/LDA but 1552m of actual paved runway to play with.
Q400 ought to be no problem, but what about the Embraer family of jets or for that matter the A318, Fokker 70/100, Bombardier CRJ family etc?
Presumably, one could take off pax and/or fuel to get some of the jets using it practically? If so what's max range on some of those jets with full pax?
The paved length of 1552m is really irrelevant as you're talking PT movements so the declared distances are what count. So you've got distances the same as at LCY but without the performance gains that the 5.5° glideslope gives you LDR-wise. Restricted payloads due to limiting runways are not popular with operators unless there is some other imperative for using a particular airfield, and that won't apply at Kindlington.
I reckon it will be limited to Q400/ATR types and below, although that still doesn't rule out limited passenger schedules and charters. I also wouldn't underestimate the appeal that small airports have for some travellers who hate the hassle they normally encounter.
Mind you, not a good time to be launching new, untried routes I wouldn't have thought.
I reckon it will be limited to Q400/ATR types and below, although that still doesn't rule out limited passenger schedules and charters. I also wouldn't underestimate the appeal that small airports have for some travellers who hate the hassle they normally encounter.
Mind you, not a good time to be launching new, untried routes I wouldn't have thought.
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Could Oxford not be the perfect place for a J31/B1900 type setup operating to a limited number of destinations? Maybe Edinburgh on a daily basis plus a couple of times a week to Dublin/Paris/Amsterdam etc. Beyond that I can't see it really having the potential to be the size of Exeter in terms of scheduled operations, but there is certainly some money to be made on niche routes.
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No word of a lie, Romaro is right! What the heck?! Surely Oxford is a big enough city to sustain it's own airport, it doesn't need to be another London airport!! Would it not make more sense to call it something like Oxford Thames Valley Airport if they are going to insist on going along with this stupid name changing. Oxford is no where near London! It's a good 55 miles away!
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All Ryanair destinations! Oxford cannot accept 737-800s, Ryanair and easyJet are never going to come to Oxford, nor are any other LoCos. Oxford is a business airport, it doesn't make sense to associate it with another airport nearly 60 miles away. Plus Oxford is a well known enough City to merit it's own airport.
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Originally Posted by 4whites
All Ryanair destinations! Oxford cannot accept 737-800s, Ryanair and easyJet are never going to come to Oxford, nor are anything LoCos. Oxford is a business airport, it doesn't make sense to associate it with another airport nearly 60 miles away. Plus Oxford is a well known enough City to merit it's own airport.